Inactive senior members

[Chief2009]

I have three senior members on the book who in my ten years as a member of this squadron I have never seen. One of my members tells me they were transferred into our squadron after their squadron was disbanded. One is a Lieutenant Colonel and the other two are 1st Lieutenants. Somehow their memberships keep renewing. I don't know if they've got automatic renewals set up with a bank or what. eServices and the WMU have no contact info, and I'm stumped as to what to do.

I have tried to convince my commander to transfer them to the ghost squadron because, as far as I know, we have no paperwork for them at all. Something tells me a SUI would not look favorably upon not having any paperwork on an LtC or a former Earhart cadet.

Any ideas would be appreciated.

DN

[arajca]

Ask your wing if they have the members' files. In writing, official letter format to the wing personnel officer.

Also, start a file. True, you'll only have name, grade, and CAPID, but include a formal letter describing the situation as it exists. Include the letter mentioned above. Have the member who provided the information about their transfer in write a similar letter.

Have you tried looking them up in the phone book? I know it's an old fashioned idea, but it's a start.

[brasda91]

I have three senior members on the book who in my ten years as a member of this squadron I have never seen. One of my members tells me they were transferred into our squadron after their squadron was disbanded. One is a Lieutenant Colonel and the other two are 1st Lieutenants. Somehow their memberships keep renewing. I don't know if they've got automatic renewals set up with a bank or what. eServices and the WMU have no contact info, and I'm stumped as to what to do.

I have tried to convince my commander to transfer them to the ghost squadron because, as far as I know, we have no paperwork for them at all. Something tells me a SUI would not look favorably upon not having any paperwork on an LtC or a former Earhart cadet.

Any ideas would be appreciated.

DN

Their membership keeps renewing because the renewel form is sent to the member, not to the unit.     Not to mention the ability to renew through eServices.

Sounds like they are more of a Patron member.  Submit the paperwork to change their membership status.  Or change their duty position to Advisor to the Commander.

I have a few members that due to their health and age are not able to attend the meetings.  I changed my members to Advisors to the Commander.  That way they still have a role within the squadron.  Theses guys have been in for many years and I can always call them and ask their opinion on a subject, you know, let them advise.  They have a wealth of knowledge and I don't want to lose that avenue of information.

[IceNine]

For my money there is no better place than 000 for empty shirts.

The arguement that you make to your commander is that.

If you have people that are not operational then your books are not actually representative of your unit, they are representative of a fictional subset with half truth.

Plus, they just make your percentages ugly.  OPSEC, NIMS, CPPT, etc all continue to take a hit and I can tell you that when I talk to my unit commander's about their numbers I don't accept the excuse "This guy never shows up".  I tell them to fix their numbers or start figuring out what to do when they have all the extra time that command is taking up.

[EMT-83]

I think that there's a huge difference between a valuable member with health issues and someone who hasn't shown up in years.

After a 10 year absence, Advisor to the Commander? No, show them the door.

We have a 97 year old member, who comes once or twice a year. She's got a Master rating and over 20 years in the squadron. She has a home for life.

We also have three members who renew their membership but haven't been seen in 3 years. They're headed for the ghost squadron. It's about quality, not quantity.

[RiverAux]

I personally don't have a problem with keeping seniors who devoted a lot of years of active service in the squadron even though they are inactive now.  It would be a bit of an insult to put them in the ghost squadron.  Those sort of people provide a valuable link with unit history, even if they don't always show up.

Someone who joined and never really got very active wouldn't rate that sort of consideration though. 

[Flying Pig]

I have a few in my unit.  They continue to renew every year and Ive never met them.  I dont sweat it.  If they want to keep paying, I figure someday they plan on getting back in when they have the time.  When they do, we'll be here. 

[IceNine]

I personally don't have a problem with keeping seniors who devoted a lot of years of active service in the squadron even though they are inactive now.  It would be a bit of an insult to put them in the ghost squadron.  Those sort of people provide a valuable link with unit history, even if they don't always show up.

Someone who joined and never really got very active wouldn't rate that sort of consideration though. 

So where is the cutoff.

Because what you are describing is exactly the problem.

I understand keeping them around for a little while but if they were around long enough to warrant that treatment they were around long enough to retire. 

That's what retirement is there for.  To thank those that were around forever but because of health, economy or global warming can't be around anymore, keeping them on the roster isn't doing anyone any good.

And if no one in the unit knows them is there really any nostalgia left?

[Spike]

^ Keeping them on the roster does help the unit.  Membership numbers (even ghost members) boost the eligibility for things and awards. 

[FW]

Having inactive members renew year after year without participation in any way is kind of a drag however, if they are paying squadron dues....
they do participate in a small way and, you never know.. they may decide to be active again. 

I wouldn't worry about it unless your gunning for squadron of distinction. 

[IceNine]

^ Keeping them on the roster does help the unit.  Membership numbers (even ghost members) boost the eligibility for things and awards.

And by doing so may take it away from the units that actually earned the award with real numbers.

[FW]

Actually, unless something changed in the last 6 years, "competition" for unit awards is based on membership "percentages".  It actually is a benefit for units to get rid of "deadwood"; especially in a composite or cadet squadron.

[brasda91]

I personally don't have a problem with keeping seniors who devoted a lot of years of active service in the squadron even though they are inactive now.  It would be a bit of an insult to put them in the ghost squadron.  Those sort of people provide a valuable link with unit history, even if they don't always show up.

Someone who joined and never really got very active wouldn't rate that sort of consideration though. 

So where is the cutoff.

Because what you are describing is exactly the problem.

I understand keeping them around for a little while but if they were around long enough to warrant that treatment they were around long enough to retire. 

That's what retirement is there for.  To thank those that were around forever but because of health, economy or global warming can't be around anymore, keeping them on the roster isn't doing anyone any good.

And if no one in the unit knows them is there really any nostalgia left?

They've been in long enough to retire.  But how do you suggest that to them without offending them?

[RiverAux]

If they retire they leave CAP entirely and the organization no longer benefits from the support provided by their dues. 

Keeping inactive senior members does not help you at all to get the Squadron of Merit or Distinction Award.  They are both based on cadets. 

Squadron of Distinction award elements:
1. # of cadet members
2.  Squadron growth rate
3.  # of cadet officer awards
4. 1st time cadet encampment attendence.
5.   cadet o-flight participation

Unfortunately, CAP fails to recognize superior senior squadrons or composite squadrons with strong senior programs but relatively weak cadet programs. 

So, there is no real reason NOT to keep inactive senior members unless you are one of those purists who like to keep your roster "clean". 

[Airrace]

I personally don't have a problem with keeping seniors who devoted a lot of years of active service in the squadron even though they are inactive now.  It would be a bit of an insult to put them in the ghost squadron.  Those sort of people provide a valuable link with unit history, even if they don't always show up.

Someone who joined and never really got very active wouldn't rate that sort of consideration though.

I would have to agree with River. Who knows they may come back at some point and you could use their services again.

[RiverAux]

I just keep thinking of one member of my squadron who was involved in the founding of the unit during WWII and was still a member in the early 2000s, but probably hadn't been active in 20 years.  I felt that it was an honor to have her on our squadron membership rolls. 

[Spike]

I know many Wings base Van and aircraft deployments on Squadron Numbers. 

So there is a benefit right there!

[Eclipse]

I just keep thinking of one member of my squadron who was involved in the founding of the unit during WWII and was still a member in the early 2000s, but probably hadn't been active in 20 years.  I felt that it was an honor to have her on our squadron membership rolls.

Then you bump her to patron status, end of problem, honor continued.

I know many Wings base Van and aircraft deployments on Squadron Numbers. 

So there is a benefit right there!

A benefit to whom?  Which part of FW&A is confusing here?  If you're getting a vehicle, aircraft, or even keeping the charter open based a few empty shirts, then there is a real problem there because you certainly can't justify the equipment issue or even the existence.

Wings can no longer support putting aircraft at a unit based purely on raw membership numbers because if they aren't putting 200 hours per airframe actual on their airplanes, they risk losing them.

Empty shirts should be moved to either patron or 000 and we should all move on.  There's room for exceptions out there, of course, but if you're one of these units who are "pushing to 100 members", but you won't normalize your roster, its meaningless.

[heliodoc]

What' the big deal??

If those members are paying dues and paying dues every year, let them

Many organizations have people who are paying and not showing up.  Sometimes they show up later.

If I had stayed in CAP, over my 25 yr break, did not show up and STILL paid my dues AND CAP was still cashing the checks....... and you know VERY WELL they will continue to cash the checks to operate.  CAP probably does NOT care if they show up or not.....they will just keep cashin' in.   Does that violate core values, to cash checks from people who do not attend...  I ask alll you CAP experts!!

Again what do you folks care, CAP is still getting their dinero.  Why screw up a good thing???

[swamprat86]

That is what we have the Patron status for.  You can always change it back if the member becomes active.

This way the members still writes out the checks, National still cashes it, the numbers don't change on the squadron roster but the active member numbers for the unit, which is important for various reasons, some already mentioned, stay realistic.