Specialty Waiver for Promotion

[Hawk200]

Also my resume doesn't need some CAP rank to make it impressive.  I am pretty proud of what I have accomplished already and it speaks for itself.

Then why is it so important that you recieve a promotion in Civil Air Patrol?

Your accomplishments in the FD are commendable, but they're from the Fire Department. I'm quite certain that you've been recognized for them there. Why should CAP recognize qualifications that are from a substantially different organization and award you advanced rank for them?

I've seen this type of issue when people change from one type of industry or field to another. A few think that the accomplishments from their previous career should be recognized, and that they should be advanced for them. It doesn't work that way. Moving into something new means that you're starting at the bottom.

Related, but unrelated, it may not be a bad idea to consider education such as yours for some type of advancement in the Health Services Officer track. You are neither doctor or nurse, but HSO seems to be an appropriate fit.

[PHall]

A lot of folks here find those posts disturbing. Your outlook or views of entitlement are not compatible with what our organization is. We're not here for advancement of self. Professional progression is expected. Placing your own desires above the organization's goals isn't. You're here to serve others.

With all the above aside, here's some food for thought: A lot of people will tell you that you're crazy for doing this for free.

Thanks for letting me know what the organization is all about.  I have been volunteering in the Fire Department now for more than 10 years.  Always a top 10 responder.  I know what it is to give back to my community.  Also, I have an opportunity to do that for my community multiple times a day in the FD.  So you don't need to tell me what volunteer service is all about.  Since I have joined CAP we have not had a single call for search.  So in reference to providing good to my community, I am well aware and have been doing it for a long long time.

Also my resume doesn't need some CAP rank to make it impressive.  I am pretty proud of what I have accomplished already and it speaks for itself.  In addition, I am self employed so I don't really need to hand my resume to anyone.

You won't get any calls for any Search Missions until you get ES qualified. You just can't walk in off the street and expect to be going on missions.

[stimpy4242]

already GES qualified and finished Mission Scanner...anything else you want to assume?

[stimpy4242]

Hawk200:

I haven't left the fire department and no the fire department doesn't do all these recognitions and awards and labels and titles and stuff, I guess its just knowing that the training you have might help you save someones life or even your own.

In addition, as stated in earlier posts, getting the rank is not for others or to show.  I am not a uniform person and you will never see me marching, its a matter of personal recogniton for myself.  In addition, if something makes me eligible, then I think I should go for it.  I mean I am a pilot so that makes me eligible for 2nd LT, I am an educator (if assigned AEO) that makes mes eligible for Capt., I am a healthcare professional with an MS (I confirmed already) that makes me eligible for 1st Lt.  I feel like if I am eligible for things because of past experience, I should go for them.  Isn't that why the process is there?

I would like to add as well that the fire department courses that I am referring to are ACE accredited for Post Graduate Management Courses.  So I would say, from a management level, they are applicable to other life adventures.  I made that comment earlier.  The professional development courses, from what I have already taken and from what I have read, while they have a CAP twist, are about managing people.  So they do apply from that standpoint.

[lordmonar]

Y'all think maybe you should tone it back a bit.

Stimpy.....you just touched the pet peeve of a lot of people on this forum. 

Everyone else....let's stop making assumptions.  Stimpy's commander will do what he feels in right.

[Hawk200]

In addition, if something makes me eligible, then I think I should go for it.  I mean I am a pilot so that makes me eligible for 2nd LT, I am an educator (if assigned AEO) that makes mes eligible for Capt., I am a healthcare professional with an MS (I confirmed already) that makes me eligible for 1st Lt.  I feel like if I am eligible for things because of past experience, I should go for them.  Isn't that why the process is there?

OK, now I'm puzzled. If you knew all this, why come here stating that you're entitled to it?  Do you feel that you should get something higher than what you're eligible for?

[capchiro]

If you are an EMT, paramedic or not, you are eligible for 2Lt rank and not 1Lt rank.  Have you read CAPR 160?  Is there some information you have not provided to us?  Thank you.

[Flying Pig]

A lot of folks here find those posts disturbing. Your outlook or views of entitlement are not compatible with what our organization is. We're not here for advancement of self. Professional progression is expected. Placing your own desires above the organization's goals isn't. You're here to serve others.

With all the above aside, here's some food for thought: A lot of people will tell you that you're crazy for doing this for free.

Thanks for letting me know what the organization is all about.  I have been volunteering in the Fire Department now for more than 10 years.  Always a top 10 responder.  I know what it is to give back to my community.  Also, I have an opportunity to do that for my community multiple times a day in the FD.  So you don't need to tell me what volunteer service is all about.  Since I have joined CAP we have not had a single call for search.  So in reference to providing good to my community, I am well aware and have been doing it for a long long time.

Also my resume doesn't need some CAP rank to make it impressive.  I am pretty proud of what I have accomplished already and it speaks for itself.  In addition, I am self employed so I don't really need to hand my resume to anyone.

I dont think there is anyone here who will argue that........

[PHall]

already GES qualified and finished Mission Scanner...anything else you want to assume?

If you don't post it, how are supposed to know?

[stimpy4242]

If you are an EMT, paramedic or not, you are eligible for 2Lt rank and not 1Lt rank.  Have you read CAPR 160?  Is there some information you have not provided to us?  Thank you.

I asked, any of the people below in the 2nd LT section are considered health care professionals.  That is why in the 1st LT section it says or any healthcare professional with an MS.  So paramedic, has an MS, 1st Lt.  That is where I got that from.

Also I corrected myself a few pages back and said, and since then have been using, the term eligible for not entitled to.  I realize I am not entitled to any rank, but may be eligible for a rank based on different things such as those that I have mentioned.

My OP should have just asked what is the process for a specialty waiver.  That was eventually answered and I thanked that person for that information.  In addition I received more helpful information from the Nurse Officer for my wing in a private message.

Can we close this thread?

[Gunner C]

As all of the sharks continue to circle, I'd like to weigh in on this:

• Stimpy asked a question.  It may have been less than crystal clear, but there are those who lie in wait to ambush.
• Stimpy appears to be incredulous with a system that brings in some with lower qualifications (or at least less applicable quals) at a higher grade
• Stimpy appears not to realize that most here don't think that rank/grade is important
• Some here are quick to attack new people, SM or cadet, in CAP if they malform a question that you, through years of experience, can recite off the top of your head and think that anyone who asks a question via this resource rather than going to a poorly worded regulation is an idiot who needs to be beaten down
• Some here are quick to forget what it's like to be new in CAP
• Some here are part of the reason that CAP has a horrible retention rate.  Instead of helping new folks and being welcoming, they're given a t-shirt (albeit virtual) with a bulls eye on it that says to others "I'm new, kick me."

Stimpy, when I was a commander I used to get excited when folks like you showed up.  Being a former EMT, I understand the difference between EMT-B, EMT-I and EMT-P.  The latter is an order of magnitude.  While your full capabilities couldn't be used in normal CAP operations, I'd put you to work as an instructor for mission critical first aid subjects.  For cadets you'd be an invaluable resource for career mentoring - how many young people get to rub elbows with emergency healthcare professionals?  I'd make sure that you were introduced quickly to other facets of ES (which you've already done). 

The experience you bring to the table is the ground equivalent of a CFII ATP multi-engine jet ratings.  Yes, you need some CAP experience and that will come with time.  But, seriously, were I your commander, after getting some CAP experience under your belt, I'd be beating the drum up the chain of command to get you a direct appointment to captain.

It doesn't sound like this guy is going to be a hanger-flying chest beater.  If appears he's here to serve and he's brought creds with him.  If it's OK to appoint CFIs to captain whose only contribution to the force would be to put hours on the aircraft, then this guy shouldn't be a problem.

Flame on if you want. 

[heliodoc]

Gunner

No flaming here...

Excellent post for those who think their CAP experience is know all end all.

With Stimpy's REAL life ES background in fire,........THERE IS a few things CAP could also LEARN from his experience of ICS...A system that CAP knows more about than the REAL First Responder counterparts

Again, rank and grade in CAP can not even buy a cup of joe in the REAL world

[LtCol057]

Well said, Gunner.

As far as my comment re: only one waiver, I was not clear in my statement.  Forgot to proofread it.

My comment should have said that you can get one waiver for exceptional qualifications.  I can't find it in the regs either, but I'm going on what I was told at a seminar by Susie Parker from NHQ.  I was also told the same thing by a former Region Commander when I was Wing Personnel Officer.

[Rotorhead]

As all of the sharks continue to circle, I'd like to weigh in on this:

• Some here are part of the reason that CAP has a horrible retention rate.  Instead of helping new folks and being welcoming, they're given a t-shirt (albeit virtual) with a bulls eye on it that says to others "I'm new, kick me."

You're forgetting that some new members come in with the attitude that "I think your organization should be run the way I want."

[Spike]

Wow......this is getting rough in here!

Stimpy, apply for the advanced promotion through the Squadron Commander.  If he or she approves, it will climb the chain of command.  Let it then play out.  Make sure you attach certificates of completion, degree certificates, awards, training reports, letters of recommendation from whoever you want and any thing else you think will help your chances.

Rank in CAP, though important to some, is not important to others, and somewhere up the chain of command you may hit the person who would never approve a special appointment.

I wish you luck.  Let us know how it turns out!! 

[Aviator1]

This thread is giving me a headache so i need to end this right now....

1 - You have been in since June, so why dont you take the time and learn the program and what it has to offer, and then go to your Commander and ask for assistance in getting what you deserve.  Thousands of people have done this before you and will continue to do it after you.  Membership in CAP is privilege and not a right, perform for CAP and you will find that things get much easier to accomplish.  I know for a fact, you are too new to this program to even have a clue on how it works...CAP does not owe you anything!

2 -The standard Paramedic Program is a 2 year course.  If you went 4 years, that means you chose to get a BS in Emergency Medical Technology - Paramedic, but you had your Paramedic in 2 years.  If the college took that long to give you your Paramedic, you better get your money back.  You are considered an EMT in the eyes of the Military...Military EMT's are allowed to do much more than a civilian Paramedic....

[Aviator1]

In MD you are only permitted to function as a Paramedic if you are affiliated with a jurisdictional program. Just because you have a Paramedic card does not give you permission to run around and play god.....I am a Paramedic so im allowed to say that...You must complete a familiarization in that jurisdiction, take a protocol exam, and be blessed by that programs medical director.  CAP DOES NOT HAVE A DUTY TO ACT....We are not an EMS service and therefore we are not obligated to provide anything above basic first aid skills.....Anyone in the world can sue anyone, but you DO NOT HAVE A DUTY TO ACT, NOR ARE YOU ALLOWED TO FUNCTION AS A PARAMEDIC FOR CAP....In CAP, you are an EMT....Thats it....

I take pride in this program and have been involved for over 20 yrs...I have been a Cadet, Squadron Commander, Group Commander, and everything in between...My suggestion is this..

Learn the program, earn the respect of your fellow members and then ask for promotion....If your not willing to do that, go to the trash can, rip up your card and get the hell out!!  We have thousands of members here for the right reasons...We have members who are 2-star Generals in the military and higher and they have a rank of SM because they are here for the program, not the rank ...

[Aviator1]

When you can stand up, be familiar with how things work, do your training (ES, Cadet, Prof. Development), and earn the respect of your fellow members, then you have a right to come on this forum and complain about what you are not getting...Im sure there are some members on here who may sympathize with you and say give you what you want, and then there are the others (prob the majority) that are going to say, i did my time, worked for what i have and didnt complain, so you should do the same....Again, make a committment to the program, not just the 2 months you have and then see how things happen.  I think you will find more members are willing to work with you when they see you are contributing to the program....

I see you are in a specialty track, but have not completed any of those levels.  You are not assigned to a duty position in your squadron so obviously you are not contributing yet....You have your ICS courses and i see you took SLS and i applaud you for that....work at your unit, learn how things work, and then respectively go to your Prof. Development officer at your squadron and see what they can do for you...

[Aviator1]

When you are ready to do all that and prove you are here for the right reasons, you should have no problem advancing through the program..

And the last thing to remember, promotion in CAP is not guaranteed.  When you go on a public site such as this and start complaining about your Squadron/Group/Wing and how you are being wronged and the ink on your card is not even dry yet, why should your commander even think about giving you an advanced promotion that is his discretion...

So...I know your Commander and your Group Commander and they will bend over backwards to help you out.  You will get your training, you will play an active role in your unit and probably do very well....All they want to see is a committment to the program.  You came in once, talked about how you didnt want to wear the uniform, and after they explained the program, you dissapeared for a while...Now you are back and wanting promotions with 2 months in the program...Just prove yourself and you will find things are much easier. We want recruits, we need recruits, but we also have to protect the integrity of the program and make sure those members who we allow to wear the uniform (even the polo shirt), are representing it well...

And in the words of Forrest Gump, Thats all i gotta say about that!!!  Good luck, i hope you have a very successful career in CAP, its a very good program, but take your time and learn it well....

[MIKE]

Ding.