Specialty Waiver for Promotion

[stimpy4242]

I want to see if anyone else has experience with this process.  Specifically educational and professional background experience, NOT MILITARY experience.

I have attended over 300 hours of national curriculum classes for the fire department, many of which are accredited for post graduate credits.  I also have a MS degree as well as a doctoral student.  I am an advanced practice paramedic as well as a private pilot.  I just attended SLS and sat thinking that it was SO BASIC and this is something I did in the fire department 10 years ago.  Since then I have taken Fire Officer Courses up to levels of managing entire fire departments.

I am seeking the rank of Capt.  Given my ability to provide transcripts and documentation for all the above does this seem reasonable or difficult to achieve?

[arajca]

Paramedic and/or Private Pilot will get you 2d Lt. FD classes don't get you anything. Depending on what your degree is in, you MAY get something, but not Capt.

Medical Doctor will get Capt. CFII/ATP will get Capt. Fire Officer will get SM.

If your commander feels you are truly exceptional and are greatly contributing to CAP's missions, you may apply for a promotion waiver. That process can take a while (I've heard up to a year).

[stimpy4242]

that is interesting, the classes I have taken far blow away this stuff here and yet still not worth anything.  I did read that health care professionals with BS can get 1st Lt.  Interesting how a 2 year RN program is supposedly better than a 4 year advanced care paramedic program.  I mean as a Advanced Practice Paramedic we can diagnose and treat, prescribe in urban settings, suture, intubate, perform surgical airways, all tasks RNs do not come across.  I am not disregarding the RN, I am trying to argue for the paramedic.  I am sure there has to be some breakdown.  Especially if curriculum can be provided to show equivalency or better when compared to things such as SLS, CLC, UCC...

It also seems that I could qualify for a Aerospace Education Officer Capt since I have a MS and 4 years as assistant faculty for the University of Maryland as Emergency Services Instructor.  Seems like there are many things that might apply, where to start?

[IceNine]

Best place to start is by talking to your unit commander.  It is then a process of making a case to the wing commander to prove that your skills are of enough value that you deserve a special appointment to the grade of Captain.

Your place to start it to have your unit commander process a CAPF 2 notated for special promotion to Capt.

Provide the certificates that you speak of and as much detail on why this should qualify as possible.

I don't think you'll have too much of an issue assuming you are using the education you have to better serve your unit and the Civil Air Patrol.

Good luck

[Airrace]

If you can provide documentation then provide it to your local commander and see what it gets you. I do know that if your commander feels you are truly exceptional and are greatly contributing to CAP's missions, you may apply for a promotion waiver.

[stimpy4242]

I appreciate the information.

[arajca]

Remember, Paramedics (of all flavors) still fall under the general "EMT" category. A nurse with an associates degree is still a nurse.

CAP does not accept ANY training - even military - as equivilent to SLS, CLC, or UCC, since these courses deal specifically with CAP and how it functions. Region and National Staff Colleges, on the other hand, do accept military PME as equivilent.

Honestly though, anyone who comes in and insists on advanced promotion and getting non-standard (in CAP regs) training accepted in place of CAP specific training tends to create a barrier between themselves and the rest of us.

[IceNine]

^ Not for you to decide, and not the question at hand.

The process is as above, and only your chain can decide if you are deserving.

[stimpy4242]

CAP does not accept ANY training - even military - as equivilent to SLS, CLC, or UCC, since these courses deal specifically with CAP and how it functions. Region and National Staff Colleges, on the other hand, do accept military PME as equivilent.

I think you need to update yourself, I am sitting here in SLS right now and they even just mentioned that there are equivalents that ARE recognized and accepted for SLS, CLC and UCC.  Now its possible the instructors are wrong, but if they are it continues to argue my own "philosophical point" that there are other ways to achieve something, since even the "knowlede experts" are presenting wrong information.

Also, there is no general EMT category.  I would expect that the goal of the listed healthcare professions was to acertain the knowledge and experience of individuals.  I believe the suggestion to make your best case is the clear choice.

[RADIOMAN015]

CAP in some ways mirrors the AF in initial appointments as far as rank goes.  Taking fire courses wouldn't get you any rank in the AF either.  HOWEVER, once in if you were in the appropriae specialty, it would help you in your advancement. 

Frankly, I think that we should bring back the Warrant Officer grades for ANYONE that doesn't have a college degree.
Some of the volunteers walking around with officer grades, in wanna bee af style uniforms are a real detriment to properly representing us in the program overall!!

In fact I sometime wonder if we should adopt the same rank insignias as the cadet program and either make it a different color or  have an "S" on the sholder boards etc...

No matter what your rank in CAP, IF you present yourself well and other volunteers get to know you as being a professional/expert in any area, you will be respected for that!
Remember we just don't want to pay you all that money until we know what you can do
RM

[IceNine]

They are in fact wrong. 

The only PME equivalent is CAPSOC, RSC, and NSC

There are no other options for SLS/CLC or UCC, TLC.  Check out 50-17 before you start directing all that rage about us being wrong.

Second, there is a category for Paramedic AND other healthcare technicians (EMT's, CNA's etc)  under the healthcare mission related skill promotion.

[stimpy4242]

They are in fact wrong. 

Second, there is a category for Paramedic AND other healthcare technicians (EMT's, CNA's etc)  under the healthcare mission related skill promotion.

First part, you are right they are wrong, but that is my point exactly.  Here are higher officers teaching SLS to newer people and they are teaching wrong information.  How is that right?

On the second point, you are misquoted.  In the r 160 the word paramedic is NEVER mentioned.  It says healthcare technicians (Emts, cnas)

On the form 35-5 it does refer to paramedic.

Now if you are trying to tell me that an EMT course which consists of 131 hours ( I know I teach it) and a four year paramedic program (i know i teach some of it)ending in a BS degree are the same thing, then that is really disappointing and perhaps it shows more about CAP then those people in those roles.

In addition, I believe that if RN is considered higher than paramedic, its because no one actually bothered to look at the curriculum.  The scope of practice for a paramedic goes well beyond an RN.  They are able to diagnose and treat medical conditions, choose medications without a physicians direct order, provide emergency airway skills such as surgical cricothyroidotomies, pericardial centesis, and more.  That seems like that person must have a wealth of knowledge and training even beyond their initial schooling.  I am not suggesting that paramedics out of the box do these things, but may be cleared by their Medical Directors, such as ours, to perform such tasks while NOT under their direct or even close supervision.

I do not mean to argue those specific paramedic skills, but that peraps it can be justified or that the current list needs to be updated to include more.

Again I plan to do what was suggested and simply talk with my commander and see what we can do.

Let me ask a new question, which might continue to argue and prove my point.

What is the purpose behind giving recognition for prior experience?  Why is there a list of specialty waiver reasons?  What do those people already have because of who they are?

[IceNine]

I'm misquoted in nothing the only reg that I care about when it comes to promotions is the reg on promotions.

I don't CARE how many hours of what you have. If its not listed then you don't qualify, unless your commander is willing to fight for your qualification.

It has nothing to do with hours or teaching or how much your fecal matter smells like roses.  If its not recognized its special.

Do what I said above and have a good shot at the promotion.  Don't and continue to complain about how awesome you are but can't be recognized.

[Flying Pig]

Just start out as a 2Lt and enjoy the ride.  I had a whole list of pilot, military and law enforcement qualifications and was a Tactical EMT on a SWAT Team.  Who cares really.  I got brought in as a 1Lt because of my Fixed Wing and Helo Commercial Pilot ratings.  It will all be OK.  Just have fun.

[SilverEagle2]

I am seeking the rank of Capt

One question...why?

[Chicago_Pilot]

Just start out as a 2Lt and enjoy the ride.  I had a whole list of pilot, military and law enforcement qualifications and was a Tactical EMT on a SWAT Team.  Who cares really.  I got brought in as a 1Lt because of my Fixed Wing and Helo Commercial Pilot ratings.  It will all be OK.  Just have fun.

I have to agree with taking the long road.  I have been in CAP for 6 months.  I am a CFI and Instrument Ground Instructor.  According to CAPR 35-5 Section D, I could be a Captain based on either one of those qualifications.  I have flow 0-rides for cadets, worked an encampment, participated in fundraisers, become ES qualified, and finished Level 1, SLS, ECI-13 and Yeager.  I also have a duty position in the squadron.

I am a Senior Member without grade.  I still get paid the same as everyone else...

[PHall]

stimpy, the first question that is going to be asked when your Squadron Commander puts you in for the waiver will be "how will this benefit CAP?"

[arajca]

Also, there is no general EMT category.  I would expect that the goal of the listed healthcare professions was to acertain the knowledge and experience of individuals.  I believe the suggestion to make your best case is the clear choice.

All EMT's use the same general abreviation - EMT. Suffixes are added to donote level -B, -I, -P, but all are still Emergency Medical Techicians. Even your sig says you're an EMT (NREMTP). CAP treats all EMTs the same.

[Spike]

I have got to say, unless CAP starts a fire rescue specialty track....then you are going to be a Senior Member for 6 months and then eligible for promotion to 2nd Lt. 

CAP is different than the Volunteer Fire Dept.  You will understand that as you spend a few months going to meetings. 

My question though is why?  What is the reasoning for a special appointment? 

To be perfectly honest, there are many that could have started out as Captains, because of career, education etc., but decided to go through the program like most other new members to CAP. 

You will feel better about promotions if you know you earned them, and did not just have one "given" to you. 

[Spike]

I just attended SLS and sat thinking that it was SO BASIC and this is something I did in the fire department 10 years ago. 

I also wanted to mention that , as "basic" as SLS may seem to you, it is CAP specific.  The course deals specifically where you fit in within your unit, and where the unit fits in with CAP and the Air Force.  It is an introduction to CAP.  So....why did your Fire Department conduct a CAP specific course 10 years ago?

Ya.....seems like you may have to much to offer, and the way CAP is setup may not be able to accept it all.  I would reevaluate why you joined CAP (resume, kid in the program etc.) and see if CAP as a whole is the right organization for you.