Potential for outcry over required weigh-ins

[CadetProgramGuy]

Let me give you the answer i received on this very issue from then General Rex Glasgow.....

"No one is ever gonna put you on a scale.  Its how you LOOK in the uniform that matters the most."

[Pingree1492]

When I was in AF ROTC, we were required to weigh-in around the beginning of every semester.  They gave us a 3 pound clothing allowance- everybody lined up and got their height/weight measured at once.  In that environment, it was just expected that we had to do it- no one had any problems with it, and everyone did it.

In a squadron environment, I think it would be a different story.  Having everyone weigh-in does waste meeting time for one- and our contact hours are already limited.  Also, not everyone wants to wear a USAF style uniform- even if they do meet standards.  Because you're not weighing everyone, and because not everyone comes to every meeting, doing this in a squadron environment is more tricky.  So I'd say that in a squadron environment, where everyone knows everyone, it would be an ill-received idea.  If someone is out of regs, then all it takes is a tactful conversation with that member if they are still wearing USAF-style uniforms.

Conducting weigh-ins at activities would be a different matter, as in Ned's example, and probably a good idea.  If everyone knows they're going to be weighed before going to the activity, then they (should) be making sure that they're either wearing the corporate uniforms or meeting the standard. 

[Always Ready]

In my unit, it would not be a problem at all. My squadron commander and myself are the only ones who wear the AF-style uniforms (I sometimes wear the BBDU though). Both of us are tall and skinny (like I have 80 lbs to grow before I hit the CAP limit for my height). All of the other SMs wear the golf shirt, except for one who wears the blazer.

The funny thing is that this very topic was brought up at one of our meetings. All of the SMs agreed that we should require weigh-ins for those who want to wear AF-style uniforms. So, the two skinniest people in the squadron (not including the cadets), would be subjected to the weigh-in...makes sense doesn't it?

Either way, I don't care. If I have to get weighed-in, I have to get weighed-in. If that gets old, I'll invest in the golf shirt and gray slacks.

[Gunner C]

My hats off to the unit that is absolutely so caught up with all aspects of their missions and admin that they can chase this windmill . . .

I don't see standards as an either/or type of thing.  AAMOF, it's pretty low-hanging fruit.

[O-Rex]

My hats off to the unit that is absolutely so caught up with all aspects of their missions and admin that they can chase this windmill . . .

Stay tuned for CAP urinalysis testing at a squadron near you!

Kinda makes it sound like it's OK to ignore some rules as long as we're making mission. Is that what you're saying, or just what it looks like?

If that's what you're saying, then it's a wrong outlook. If that's just what it looks like, then I invite you to clarify. For my own benefit, of course.

Compliance is important in all aspects of the organization, I'm just hoping that this diligent "quest for excellence" and the units apparent laser-beam-focus-attention-to-detail is consistent across the board, because things like this will garner scrutiny in other areas.

High standards are usually proportional to a military (type) unit's appeal and the prestige that goes with being a member (drawing from Mil examples, Marines, Seals, Tomb Guard etc.) as well as the satisfaction that comes with participation and achieving a higher standard.  If a unit is high-speed/low-drag, more power to them, I just hope that they have something to offer the members that is above and beyond others that perhaps may not enforce policies to such a degree.

I think that most folks respect the philosopy "We expect alot, but we offer alot."   Referring to my original post, if that be the case, then fair is fair: play along or transfer elsewhere.  If the unit is that good, then the folks who 'vote with their feet' will be relatively few, and probably won't be sorely missed. 
 
The majority of threads in CAPTalk are about bridging the gap between that CAP that should be, and the CAP that we have, which is a challenge (and often a frustration) for anyone commanding a CAP unit.  The key is to try to do it across all functional areas, Otherwise, the strict enforcement of one item will appear as just a pet-peeve, and may not achieve the desired effect.

[Nathan]

To say that this issue isn't one worth the squadron's time to investigate and enforce is to say that the USAF's opinion on who should be allowed to wear their uniform is not important and worth our time to enforce.

If they set rules for us to follow in order to wear a uniform, it is up to the commander of that unit to enforce those rules. Ultimately, the commander is going to be the one held responsible if that member is actually ever disciplined for wearing the uniform when overweight. And you really never know who is going to see who that is going to get the uniform taken away completely.

To me, that leaves the commander with the ability to enforce this policy in any way he or she feels is necessary (and legal) to do. If that means pulling one questionable senior into the office and pulling out the scale, then that's what it takes.

At the end of the day, it is our responsibility to abide by these rules of we want to have the privilege of wearing the uniform at all. I fail to see how taking for granted the right to wear the USAF uniform is very productive in all of this.

[arajca]

While it may have been mentioned before, it's one thing to discretely have a weight-check for a member who appears out of compliance. It's another thing entirely to weight-check everyone - especially those who wear the corporate uniforms.

I know several who wear both, usually because of 'mid-section management' issues at certain times of the year.

[Flying Pig]

I dont think it would be necessary to have weigh ins.  The Seniors in my Sq pretty much go with the polo shirt or the the AF Blues. When new members come in, we explain the deal to them.  We have even had 2-3 members purposely lose weight because they want to wear the AF Blues.  2 have lost a VERY noticable amount.

[RiverAux]

Didn't suggest weigh-ins for those who wear corporate uniforms.  No standards for them, so no need to weigh.

If they set rules for us to follow in order to wear a uniform, it is up to the commander of that unit to enforce those rules.

And uniform issues are getting mentioned in compliance inspections I have it on good authority. 

[jb512]

If you don't weigh in, you don't wrestle...

Standards are standards and we shouldn't be scared that someone's going to take their toys and go home.

[LittleIronPilot]

This is Civil Air Patrol, not WeightWatchers. It is usually pretty obvious when someone should not be in an AF style uniform, the breaking out of scales and arguing over a few pounds is rediculous and petty. It also seems to me that this would be a colossal waste of valuable meeting time that might otherwise be spent on worthwhile training.

Members need to be responsible enough to admit they are too heavy and SQ CCs need to not be afraid to tell someone they exceed the standards, but there is no need for mass weigh ins.

Obvious maybe...we have ALL seen the "he should have stopped wearing that years ago" member in AF uniform.

The problem is that NO ONE tells them that. NO ONE. Even the post below yours said to be "prepared for backlash" if there is even private, one-on-one counseling.

[Nolan Teel]

We're all Adults here....  Why is it so hard to just follow the rules....  If someone doesn't want to follow the rules theres the door...

I'm not sure if it really matters anyways... It seems our organization is going more and more to the Polos and less from AF uniforms....

What about this for an idea... Get rid of all uniforms except the Polos, no more Rank.  The only time that we fall under a formal Chain of Command would be in the ICS enviroment on a mission?   

[AlphaSigOU]

We're all Adults here....  Why is it so hard to just follow the rules....  If someone doesn't want to follow the rules theres the door...

I'm not sure if it really matters anyways... It seems our organization is going more and more to the Polos and less from AF uniforms....

What about this for an idea... Get rid of all uniforms except the Polos, no more Rank.  The only time that we fall under a formal Chain of Command would be in the ICS enviroment on a mission?   

Good to see you on CAPTalk, Nolan!

[Bluelakes 13]

What about this for an idea... Get rid of all uniforms except the Polos, no more Rank.  The only time that we fall under a formal Chain of Command would be in the ICS enviroment on a mission?   

:clap:

[Bluelakes 13]

Additionally, in our organization, leadership by example is critical.

Enough said...

[AlphaSigOU]

There's a time and a place for the polo shirt uniform, such as for CD/HLS ops or other times where an AF or corporate-style military uniform may not be appropriate. It should not be a regular uniform for a meeting. Personally, I don't mind wearing it, and it's a relatively cheap uniform to get new SMs started. But if you work with cadinks, and I was the squadron CC, I'd expect you to wear military style AF, TPU or grays.

[Spike]

So wearing polo shirts and dress pants in the swamps of Florida is not advised??

Man, I just got myself some new dress shoes too.............

[wingnut55]

have you seen the fat guys getting into the air planes and not being honest about their weight. This is the real issue, it is about safety.

with that said I agree we need to get rid of the uniform if NHQ cannot decide what we are how can we. Besides that way we are not identified as a militant group according to homeland security.

:angel:

[BrandonKea]

As one of the "fat guys," I have no problem enforcing the uniform standards on myself. Everyone in my squadron who wears BDU's meets weight requirements (or, looks like they do). When I get down to where I can not look like Gomer Pyle in BDU's, I'll bring them out of the closet. Until then, I look like a blueberry...

[Spike]

^ Right on!  Good work on your part.  I can't wear AF either......but not because I am fat.  I have no problem following the rules, even if I hate the rules.