Leather Nametag

es_g0d · April 12, 2009, 01:07:59 AM

Vanguard can't figure out priority, AND they're mixing "full size" and "miniature" badges. Expecting that the leather nametag would mimic, oh I don't know, EVERY OTHER PIECE OF REGULATION, a reasonably logical person would also conclude that this is verboten.

I'm glad this is a hot topic; I hope someone from Vanguard is wearing their ~~asbesto~~s nomex undergarments.

Stonewall · April 12, 2009, 01:09:30 PM

In the AF I've seen a variety of badge set-ups...

Captain Morgan · April 12, 2009, 01:16:29 PM

So this isn't legal?

BuckeyeDEJ · April 12, 2009, 02:48:08 PM

Quote from: Captain Morgan on April 12, 2009, 01:16:29 PM
So this isn't legal?

Give it time. We just won't be able to wear it around cadets.

blackrain · April 12, 2009, 03:07:15 PM

CPT Morgan..........TOOOOO Funny.

I have a couple "Morale Patches" I aquired overseas that I would like to put velcro on but I probably couldn't wear around the cadets either;D

I can't help but wonder who in the upper reaches of the CAP organization is getting a kickback from Vanguard.

ONE reason I went to the blue flight suit was to avoid as much uniform stupidity as possible. I have no desire to be confused with the Air Force while on CAP duty. I get my fill of playing military/Army while deployed. Now if they'll just let us use the cloth name tag on the blue suit that would be a benefit IMHO(readily available locally). If you need a different name tag ( considering they have English on both leather and cloth) to differentiate from the REAL military and CAP on a BLUE flight suit then maybe you need your eyes checked or possibly an English test. Same principle applies to the plastic encased insignia/ FOD hazard on the green suit.

One of my favorite sayings in the field "Git er done"

Anyone up there listening?

RogueLeader · April 12, 2009, 04:46:09 PM

Quote from: blackrain on April 12, 2009, 03:07:15 PM
Anyone up there listening?

Huh?? Did somebody say something....

We know what you mean. Most of that requires USAF approval. The Seneate moves faster than them sometimes.

blackrain · April 13, 2009, 02:42:47 AM

I know most on here (CAP TALK) see eye to eye. I keep hoping Big Blue and the those very high up in CAP can get practical solutions made and implemented in a reasonable time. ..................I'll pause now for the laughter to die down.................

Keeping the bling to minimum especially on dress uniforms would be good start too.

I for one, only have the golf shirt and grey slacks for meetings and no dress uniforms. Everything else is BDU/flightsuit/mission related.

Also, I really can't believe how much time is devoted to who gets to wear the leather jacket and other issues associated with the leather jacket. If the AF pilots get their feelings hurt by someone else wearing THEIR jacket then I have a nice set of Interceptor Body Armor ((just like the cool kids wear) and a 365 to the desert for them.

First and foremost is accomplishing the/our mission safely. If it goes to that end then it should move to the top of our priority list. IMHO

I'll quit wasting electrons now

Eclipse · April 13, 2009, 03:10:22 AM

Quote from: blackrain on April 13, 2009, 02:42:47 AM
Also, I really can't believe how much time is devoted to who gets to wear the leather jacket and other issues associated with the leather jacket. If the AF pilots get their feelings hurt by someone else wearing THEIR jacket then I have a nice set of Interceptor Body Armor ((just like the cool kids wear) and a 365 to the desert for them.

The reason so much time, in theory, is devoted to these issues is the seeming inability for a lot of our members to read 39-1 and follow relatively simple instructions.

If its not the former or the latter its a simple disregards for the regs, which is a worse problem then the above.

It doesn't matter why we're told to do "x" and not do "y", just that we comply. If we don't, we're wrong, period. All the nonsense about safety, cost, appearance, currency, and "they're lucky I showed up at all..." is just that, nonsense.

Hawk200 · April 13, 2009, 03:42:33 AM

Quote from: Eclipse on April 13, 2009, 03:10:22 AMIf its not the former or the latter its a simple disregards for the regs, which is a worse problem then the above.

I think ignorance is another part, both simple ("Oh I didn't know that") and willful ("I'm not going to look that up, I don't have time/desire to").

Quote from: Eclipse on April 13, 2009, 03:10:22 AMIt doesn't matter why we're told to do "x" and not do "y", just that we comply. If we don't, we're wrong, period. All the nonsense about safety, cost, appearance, currency, and "they're lucky I showed up at all..." is just that, nonsense.

:clap:

blackrain · April 14, 2009, 12:15:29 AM

Quote from: Hawk200 on April 13, 2009, 03:42:33 AM
Quote from: Eclipse on April 13, 2009, 03:10:22 AMIf its not the former or the latter its a simple disregards for the regs, which is a worse problem then the above.

I think ignorance is another part, both simple ("Oh I didn't know that") and willful ("I'm not going to look that up, I don't have time/desire to").

Quote from: Eclipse on April 13, 2009, 03:10:22 AMIt doesn't matter why we're told to do "x" and not do "y", just that we comply. If we don't, we're wrong, period. All the nonsense about safety, cost, appearance, currency, and "they're lucky I showed up at all..." is just that, nonsense.

I hear ya barkin. I've "saluted and executed" more times than I can count; as many on this site can relate to.

Recently I've heard AF pilots lamenting how other active AF types are starting to wear the leather jacket so that's one reason I used it as an example.

But in the end I'll always call it like I see it. THEN salute and execute.

Mission First, Troops Always.

es_g0d · April 14, 2009, 05:34:27 AM

Said Air Force Pilots lament the fact that the Leather Jacket is being given to a multitude of career fields, when the whole reason it was brought back into service in the first place was as an incentive to be an aviator in the Air Force.

It was a big deal. We've got precious few bits of heritage in the Air Force, so they must be carefully tended.

Cecil DP · April 14, 2009, 07:34:54 AM

Maybe they don't read 39-1 because it changes every time you turn around. IE: From Civil Air Patrol to United States Air Force Auxiliary and back, CSU uniforms with several changes within the first 6 months of its adoption, Wing patches on, wing patches off, I can recall buying several diffrent polo shirts which were introduced and than rescinded within a year. We have a Manual which is supposed to be the final word, but which has been amended several times by ICL which have a shelf life of 6 months which are never updated into the manual.

heliodoc · April 14, 2009, 12:21:16 PM

^^^

Yup Like a number of other things that CAP doesn't update AND especially when they have a PAID staff to update

I ve read the 39-1 just like I have read AR 670-1 and 39-1 REALLY NEEDS the HELP.

RiverAux · April 14, 2009, 12:46:06 PM

Hmmm, the AF needed incentives to get people to want to be AF pilots? Not sure I'm buying that any more than I am the need for the big retention bonuses at AIG.

es_g0d · April 14, 2009, 02:55:57 PM

Not to BE pilots, RiverAux, to STAY pilots. We were in the end of 10 years whipping from ONW and OSW, and the airlines were hiring like gangbusters. Most of the good pilots left to join them, if nothing else so they could see their families more than 120 days a year (for 10 years running, remember). So they offered a bonus and brought out the leather jacket. Neither were very effective. For these reasons our O-5 to O-6 leadership on active duty is pretty thin right now.

Think of it what you may, but that's the history lesson on why the leather jacket came back into being in the US Air Force.

Sgt. Savage · April 14, 2009, 10:00:10 PM

I wear mine with my Senior Parachutist wings. Any yahoo can land a plane. You gotta have something special to jump out.

RiverAux · April 14, 2009, 10:08:15 PM

I can't see many staying for a leather jacket. But, frankly, when the organization is primarily focused on that small group of its members, I don't mind them having some special items only for them.

blackrain · April 14, 2009, 11:05:46 PM

At one time pilots received a pretty good monetary bonus to stay in. I don't know if they still do. Of course being an airline pilot probably isn't the best career move right now.

Ask the guy drawing E-4 pay in the Army what they did to keep him in or get him back if he's out already. He's been subject to Stop Loss or recalled out of the IRR.

Pretty fool-proof retention plan.

I've heard a lot stories about people who have lost businesses etc after being recalled from the IRR 3 years after they took their last dime from Uncle Sam.

PHall · April 15, 2009, 12:17:30 AM

Quote from: RiverAux on April 14, 2009, 10:08:15 PM
I can't see many staying for a leather jacket. But, frankly, when the organization is primarily focused on that small group of its members, I don't mind them having some special items only for them.

Like he said, it wasn't that effective. But what do ya want for something that was thought up in the Puzzle Palace on the Potomac?

Climbnsink · April 15, 2009, 02:36:42 AM

Quote from: Cecil DP on April 14, 2009, 07:34:54 AM
Maybe they don't read 39-1 because it changes every time you turn around. IE: From Civil Air Patrol to United States Air Force Auxiliary and back, CSU uniforms with several changes within the first 6 months of its adoption, Wing patches on, wing patches off, I can recall buying several diffrent polo shirts which were introduced and than rescinded within a year. We have a Manual which is supposed to be the final word, but which has been amended several times by ICL which have a shelf life of 6 months which are never updated into the manual.

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: