AAFES Gas Station

[md132]

Thank you Major.  That is the point I was trying to convey.  I got the privilege first by being a dependent because my father was in the Army then as an AAFES employees.  If you are not authorized you are not to purchase anything that is not authorized.  This includes gas.  If you live far from your meeting place then I would recommend that you get gas before you go to the meeting.  Because you may be at the shop one day and if an MP or SP shows up, they have the right to ask for your ID.  The store owner also have the right to refuse sale to anyone unauthorized.   

[Nick]

...and trust me when I say, on-duty security police are some of the best gas station/shopette customers.

[JJ]

As a current member of the US Armed Forces I have little problem with CAP personnel using the BX/PX or gas station. I know what all the regs say, but I can't see the harm in a CAP member buying a soda or bag of chips from AAFES. I am a 14yr veteran of the USAF both active & ANG. I have seen CAP members using the BX numerous times & I have never thought that much about it. I don't see getting that worked up about it or pulling a CAP member aside to quote the policy to them. I guess it really bothers some folks though! At the base where I currently am employed CAP is treated like a tenant unit of the wing. The wing CC has given CAP members access to the gym, all services club, & BX. I am a fulltime guard employee & I see CAP members on base quite often using these facilities. Our group CC even had our Christmas party at the all services club. As far as gas goes the AAFES stations really are not that much cheaper. I was in Dover, DE last week & the gas on base was more expensive than the gas in town. I think AAFES is incline to let anyone who can get past the front gate purchase at the BX/PX because of off base competition & probably slumping sales (just a guess). I was TDY to Dover last week & did not even get asked for ID in the BX or clothing sales store. Make of it what you wish, but I guess I don't see the big deal about it.

[JAFO]

Slightly off topic, but of note.  What does the group think of CAP members joining the Officers club on the military base where the squadron meets, or nearby?   

I should think you would need an MSA for that.

Our local ANG wing has welcomed CAP members to join their Open Mess with open arms, and I have taken them up on the invitation (although I haven't used the membership lately). While on an activity recently, O-club use was written into the MSA, and we were told that we could join as regular members if we desired. If I didn't live so far, I probably would.

[lordmonar]

As a current member of the US Armed Forces I have little problem with CAP personnel using the BX/PX or gas station. I know what all the regs say, but I can't see the harm in a CAP member buying a soda or bag of chips from AAFES. I am a 14yr veteran of the USAF both active & ANG. I have seen CAP members using the BX numerous times & I have never thought that much about it. I don't see getting that worked up about it or pulling a CAP member aside to quote the policy to them. I guess it really bothers some folks though! At the base where I currently am employed CAP is treated like a tenant unit of the wing. The wing CC has given CAP members access to the gym, all services club, & BX. I am a fulltime guard employee & I see CAP members on base quite often using these facilities. Our group CC even had our Christmas party at the all services club. As far as gas goes the AAFES stations really are not that much cheaper. I was in Dover, DE last week & the gas on base was more expensive than the gas in town. I think AAFES is incline to let anyone who can get past the front gate purchase at the BX/PX because of off base competition & probably slumping sales (just a guess). I was TDY to Dover last week & did not even get asked for ID in the BX or clothing sales store. Make of it what you wish, but I guess I don't see the big deal about it.

I agree with JJ.  AAFES privileges are just fine and great....but if non authorized personnel use it....it in fact makes it better for me instead of worse.

It is AAFES' job to enforce their own rules.  That non authorized personnel can use the facilities goes to a general lack of responsibility and attention to detail on the part of the employee. 

If the employees in question were doing their job, this would never even come up.

So....if you can find an AAFES outlet that turns a blind eye to the rules...have go for it.  You are not taking anything away from me or any other military person or their dependent.

[md132]

I'm not saying that CAP member cannot purchase snacks or sodas but I'm saying that they cannot purchase anything else like clothing or software.  Just about anyone can purchase something to eat or drink they won't be denied.  But again it is an abuse of privileges that is not granted unless the store manager or base commander or even AAFES commander himself authorizes it.  Besides there are PX/BX out there that does as for ID for everyone uniform or not.

[JJ]

I do not disagree with those of you who say that use of AAFES facilities is a privilege afforded to members of the Armed Forces, their dependents, & retired members. I would not say that a CAP member who buys a t-shirt or CD at the BX is abusing that, but I guess I just don't get as excited about it as some folks do. As I said I have been in a USAF uniform fulltime (active/ANG) for 14yrs now & have observed CAP folks using the BX, club, gym, & other facilities numerous times. I have never felt slighted or offended by that. Years ago the BX used to be the place to shop, but with all the BIG BOX stores out the main gates now there is a lot of competition. The only real benefit to buying items at a BX/PX that I see is there is no sales tax. Even with that there are still times when the BIG BOX stores are cheaper. I guess if "civilians" were coming on base to shop at the BX & buy gas I might be more offended by it. Being a CAP & USAF member I guess I see us all as being part of the "Total Force" picture. I realize that CAP is not the military, so please not comments about that. Personally I will not question a CAP member buying anything from the BX or be offended by it. If AAFES wants to stop CAP members from purchasing items the feel inappropriate then they should do so. I can tell you from personal experience at many different AAFES facilities that they do not ask for ID like they did in years past. If they were really concerned then they would enforce a policy of 100% ID checks. Also, as mentioned in another post...I really don't believe that a sky cop is going to card CAP member in line at the gas station or BX. I could be wrong, but I don't think they have the right to do so. If a CAP member is allowed on base then I guess it would be up to AAFES to refuse the sale. The BX is not a restricted area & I can't recall any base I have ever been where sky cops act as security guards. I can't imagine a sky cop being that concerned over it, but I could be wrong. I guess it is a slow week on CAP Talk! Could we find a more boring subject to discuss! Oh well.....

[shorning]

I do not disagree with those of you who say that use of AAFES facilities is a privilege afforded to members of the Armed Forces, their dependents, & retired members. I would not say that a CAP member who buys a t-shirt or CD at the BX is abusing that, but I guess I just don't get as excited about it as some folks do. As I said I have been in a USAF uniform fulltime (active/ANG) for 14yrs now & have observed CAP folks using the BX, club, gym, & other facilities numerous times. I have never felt slighted or offended by that. Years ago the BX used to be the place to shop, but with all the BIG BOX stores out the main gates now there is a lot of competition. The only real benefit to buying items at a BX/PX that I see is there is no sales tax. Even with that there are still times when the BIG BOX stores are cheaper. I guess if "civilians" were coming on base to shop at the BX & buy gas I might be more offended by it. Being a CAP & USAF member I guess I see us all as being part of the "Total Force" picture. I realize that CAP is not the military, so please not comments about that. Personally I will not question a CAP member buying anything from the BX or be offended by it. If AAFES wants to stop CAP members from purchasing items the feel inappropriate then they should do so. I can tell you from personal experience at many different AAFES facilities that they do not ask for ID like they did in years past. If they were really concerned then they would enforce a policy of 100% ID checks. Also, as mentioned in another post...I really don't believe that a sky cop is going to card CAP member in line at the gas station or BX. I could be wrong, but I don't think they have the right to do so. If a CAP member is allowed on base then I guess it would be up to AAFES to refuse the sale. The BX is not a restricted area & I can't recall any base I have ever been where sky cops act as security guards. I can't imagine a sky cop being that concerned over it, but I could be wrong. I guess it is a slow week on CAP Talk! Could we find a more boring subject to discuss! Oh well.....

So you don't think it's a big deal that CAP members are breaking their own regulations?  Regardless, it is abusing base privileges.  If members are going to come on base, they should know what they are allowed to do and not to do.  The world on base isn't the civilian world.  Different standards apply.  As leaders, we should be educating members on what they can and can't do on base.  It's our responsibility to enforce standards.

[Nick]

I really don't believe that a sky cop is going to card CAP member in line at the gas station or BX. I could be wrong, but I don't think they have the right to do so.

Oh, we do.  18 USC 1382, 50 USC 797 and 32 CFR 809a3 allows us to identify anyone, civilian or otherwise, on Federal property and to apprehend and/or remove them from the installation.  In this case, we have DoDI 1330.21 which we can enforce on civilians IAW 18 USC 1382.

But it really doesn't matter to me either.  The way I look at it, CAP members get very little benefit out of being CAP members.  Heck, you're even paying every year to let CAP allow you to perform missions for the Air Force.

Personally, I don't see anything wrong with allowing those with a legitimate presence on the base to contribute to NAF activities such as the BX and clubs.  Granted, I wouldn't want to open the doors for the civilian world... but still, just because I don't see anything wrong with it, doesn't mean it's okay.

[JJ]

Like I said...I could be wrong. I am a maintainer, not a sky cop. I still stand be my original comment that I do not believe that they would harass a CAP member in line at the BX or shopette who is buying a DVD. I can't see anyone getting that worked up about it. On the base where I am currently employed CAP members blend in just like the rest of us. Our Group HQ is on base & the Group CC has lunch monthly with the ANG Wing CC. As far as CAP members breaking their own regulations go...you can not make me believe that anyone follows every regulation to the written letter. I know from personnel experience in the aircraft maintenance business that if we were 100% "by the book" we would never fly a sortie. With the exception of personnel safety most of us have bent or overlooked rules/regs from time to time. I'm sorry, but I just don't see this as a big deal & I have earned the "privilege."