I have started to notice.

[TEAM SURGE]

25 years ago I was a cadet (Mitchell and Earhart) and we did as best we could to sell all the programs equally.  It DID NOT always work to be the first at drill comp nor the first at an AE bowl...

I was with a squadron that pushed ES pretty heavily because the only things we had were radios, and M37 and a M43 Ambulance (both Dodge products) and the cadets were more than enthused to get in the woods and probably 2 weekends a month with an L per, 2 coils of 120 and 150 foot goldline, and a Stokes stretcher.  We had kids who had never seen any of this equipment and they were from innner city and urban environments.  Many cadets went on to PJOC and USAFA Survival School in the era of 1977 thru 1981.  I attended USAFA Survival in 1977 and PJOC in 1979

There was really no worry about how much AE and CP time was devoted or how much bling one could get, we just went about our biz as a ground team.  We knew BACK THEN we wouldn't always get the call for anything but we preped like we were

Don't know where the waste of time originated.... we did the CP and AE when required and then it was ready to prep to many a State park..... to DO ES

Those former cadets are former Pathfinders, SF operators (3 still are), aircraft MX officers with RM Col on his shoulders........ These were kids that did not care about the so called structure of a weekly meeting... they RAN the composite squadron and most us SM's corralled and guided and watched cadet magic, fun , frivolity, and true seriousness about a mission that may never come and they were realistic enough to know we were not always going to be first out of the gate.

There are alot of CAPers that do not want to hang with the cadets.  Don't have to, give em a gig to do, teach a class see who comes up and moves front and center...Seniors included

CAP now after 25 years seems to be watered down with too much core values stuff and too much time worrying about the liability.  Its all about the change in times.  Sqdn CC's are ham strung with too many reports and not enough field action and that has proved that mental toughness does not come from bowing to all the legal eagles and trying to tow the "CAP corporate line"

This is today's CAP, I am happy with it for the while, I can still contribute and make my contacts with the ARNG to get training facilities available to my squadron and some "meaninful" training with the Aviation unit I was once with, get a rappellmaster lined up in the future to rfappell off towers.

ES is a huge enhancer and it doesn't always occur at a two hour block at a CAP meeting...it also entails on how things come together OUTSIDE of the squadron that gets molded to a meeting and IF ES outshines CP and AE and vice versa what in God's name is there to worry about??

WE never over sold ......we showed what we had and we did not bring a HUMMER like vehicle nor a M151 Jeep from the Reserve or Guard.... wes old the program where is ... as is  no one was let down when a squadron tells, God forbid, the truth!!!

This would be my type of squadron!

Our ES block at our meetings right now are etting tests taken and 72 hour packs prepared.

[Eclipse]

25 years ago I was a cadet (Mitchell and Earhart) and we did as best we could to sell all the programs equally.  It DID NOT always work to be the first at drill comp nor the first at an AE bowl...

Drill competitions - meh.

Despite tradition and the fact that the are at least peripherally included in the actual CP, there are those out here who believe the resources and time required to field an NCC-level team are just as detrimental to the program as all that "extra" ES - unless of course your career path includes playing volleyball and marching in a square.

The AE Bowls, on the other hand, can provide a similar competitive, interstate atmosphere with nothing more than the Dimensions books and nowhere near the time or expense of NCC.

[JayT]

And a quarter of the fun, no team experences, no trips for competitions........

[Eclipse]

And a quarter of the fun, no team experiences, no trips for competitions........

You could get the same "team experience" from AE bowl, and that $10-15K not spent on uniforms and travel expenses could be used to send half the cadets in the wing to an encampment or similar activity, buy everyone a new, regular uniform, or any number of other more effective uses of the money.

That "experience" and trip only benefits a small percentage of the membership, and in the end brings back nothing of any real value to the wing - bragging rights live for what, two CS posts and an email?

While at the same time those same cadets, many of them the more senior in the wing, are essentially divorced from the "real" program for 1/3rd+ of the year while they practice.

(I think I hear Mike coming down the hall)   

[es_g0d]

A SAR competition can do all of that as well ...

In the end, CAP is best when its well-rounded.

[flyguy06]

Recently I have been to a couple cadet activities. I have talk to a lot of SNCO's who have never even heard of the test required to obtain your UDF and Ground Team qualifications.

116
117

I don't understand this. My squadron we have  Airman we are trying to get testing.  Why are other squadrons not doing this type of stuff? Isn't it part of the 3 missions of CAP?

You can go through the entire cadet program and never do any Ground team training. My unit doesnt focus on GT stuff. Our cadets like flying and so we mainly focue on O rides, and flight training type things. We also do cadet stuff also, like Color Guard and D & C. But if I asked them if they wanted to go out to the woods and spend the nihgt. The majority of them would say no

[TEAM SURGE]

You can go through the entire cadet program and never do any Ground team training. My unit doesnt focus on GT stuff. Our cadets like flying and so we mainly focue on O rides, and flight training type things. We also do cadet stuff also, like Color Guard and D & C. But if I asked them if they wanted to go out to the woods and spend the nihgt. The majority of them would say no

Thats dissapointing. Yes O-Rides are fun and such. The feeling of being qualified to search for something that may be very rewarding in the end? That is my type of fun

Color Guard is something I am trying to get the cadets into. I am bringing in a professional color guard from the Army to come to one of our meetings. Possibly get the cadets into that type of thing. I am interested.

[es_g0d]

Life would sure be boring if we liked the exact same things.  Pursue your individual interests, TEAM SURGE!  If your squadron isn't what you had hoped, consider transferring to another if they are close enough to you.  I'm glad you know what you like; too many people don't!

[a2capt]

If it's anything like whats going on in Southern California .. with remote launches, and all night ELT hunts, getting cadets involved in a base is non-existent and getting them to go out on ELT searches is not a realistic event logistically when you put in school, homework, etc and sprinkle CPPT on top.

It pretty much means that any cadet activity is at the heels of parents who are also members and take the cadets with them.

When was the last time a real search base was opened up?

With the lack of monitoring, we may go back toward this a bit more now, but .. I doubt this whole thing is a return to 30 years ago as much as some are saying it is.

30 years ago they didn't have the archived radar data, GPS tracking, and equipment we have now either.

[JoeTomasone]

In our Group, we are pushing ES hard both due to anemic post-1 Jan numbers and because we have heard time and time again that the members want it.    Cadets, especially, tend to view ES as something that makes their membership mean something more than a membership in another organization.  It also tends to help in both recruiting and retention.

My policy as Group ESO is that trainees (and especially Cadet trainees) are to be included as much as humanly possible and practical.    To that end, I plan to write up something akin to a permission slip that a Cadet's parents can fill out that will say if/when their Cadet is available for missions both during the school week, on weekends, and when school is out.    If the parent says the Cadet is available, the call will come.   

My biggest challenge is educational.   In informal polling of the members since I became ESO, I've found that the vast majority have no idea what ES comprises, what it does, or how to get qualified in it.   When I ask how many are or want to be qualified in ES, a get a few hands.   When I explain what ES does and some of the qualifications (GTM, UDF, MS, MO, MRO, usually), then ask the same question at the end, nearly every hand goes up.

I'm working on a Powerpoint that describes ES and how to get qualified, including navigating Ops Quals.

[Stonewall]

A well written post.

Fast forward your cadet experience to 87 - 91 and that was my experience.  Then, fast forward to 95 to 00, and you've got the exact same thing where I was a senior in DCWG.

Great post and excellent description of what I think a squadron should look like.

[TEAM SURGE]

In our Group, we are pushing ES hard both due to anemic post-1 Jan numbers and because we have heard time and time again that the members want it.    Cadets, especially, tend to view ES as something that makes their membership mean something more than a membership in another organization.  It also tends to help in both recruiting and retention.

My policy as Group ESO is that trainees (and especially Cadet trainees) are to be included as much as humanly possible and practical.    To that end, I plan to write up something akin to a permission slip that a Cadet's parents can fill out that will say if/when their Cadet is available for missions both during the school week, on weekends, and when school is out.    If the parent says the Cadet is available, the call will come.   

My biggest challenge is educational.   In informal polling of the members since I became ESO, I've found that the vast majority have no idea what ES comprises, what it does, or how to get qualified in it.   When I ask how many are or want to be qualified in ES, a get a few hands.   When I explain what ES does and some of the qualifications (GTM, UDF, MS, MO, MRO, usually), then ask the same question at the end, nearly every hand goes up.

I'm working on a Powerpoint that describes ES and how to get qualified, including navigating Ops Quals.

I will have my commander look into something like that. A type of slip for calling cadets. Great idea.