Sheriff Dept Sponsored CAP Squadron

[Earhart1971]

Reply to Andrew Rajca, Capt, CAP

1. Who picks the Commander?

Last time I formed a Squadron the guy who forms the squadron and recruits the personnel was the first Commander.  But not this time, I don't want to be the Commander, but I got two former Earhart Cadets that might be the candidates.

2. What are the details:

The details are again, same as before, I want to start a Squadron, I have money and sponsorship, send me a Charter number.

Thats how the last squadron I started got to be.

There are not any requirements for approval, unless what I have observed for many years has changed.

I am Forming a CAP Unit, I have former CAP Cadets as Seniors, I have the Sponsorship of the newly elected Sheriff.

The CAP Squadron will be run under the requirements of CAP Regs.

And lets face it thats how you start a squadron.

[arajca]

To make sure I got the issues straight:

1. You want to start a squadron.

2. You want this squadron to be operationally involved with the Sheriff's office.

No. 1. is as simple as you make it out to be.

No. 2. is where all the discussion revolves around. Whenever operations are involved, liability and authority issues come into play. This is where the legal folks need to be involved.
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I think you have a great idea. I also see several potential problems, which I have tried to point out. I am also in the process of attempting to start a squadron and I have run into a number of issues.

[Earhart1971]

To make sure I got the issues straight:

1. You want to start a squadron.

2. You want this squadron to be operationally involved with the Sheriff's office.

No. 1. is as simple as you make it out to be.

No. 2. is where all the discussion revolves around. Whenever operations are involved, liability and authority issues come into play. This is where the legal folks need to be involved.
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I think you have a great idea. I also see several potential problems, which I have tried to point out. I am also in the process of attempting to start a squadron and I have run into a number of issues.

In a nutshell:

"Operationally involved with the Sheriff" NOT unless it is an Air Force Authorized CAP MISSION.

The Sheriff can support good causes, a Sheriff is an elected official with total power of the spending of 200 million in Budget and he can get grants for good causes from the Dept of Homeland Security and other Branches of the Federal Government, he can also use seized assets to good causes.

He has total power to spend the money, no committees needed for approval of a Budget, not even the County Commission, its his money to spend by law.

Now, as far a liability, the Sheriff can afford more insurance or SELF INSURE to any amount of money, far more than the Ability of National Headquarters CAP to provide Insurance, this particular Sheriff would be Self Insured, because his is RICH in Budget, and Backed up by a County that is Billions in Budget.

The Sheriff's insurance probably exceeds any CAP Insurance Coverage by at LEAST a Factor of 10 or more.

So, if we are in vehicles loaned by the Sheriff we are safer, better insured, and CAP less at risk from outside lawsuits.

Same with Aircraft.

The other thing the Sheriff can get is excess Military Vehicles that are High Maintenance, and the Sherifff will maintain them, because he has a motorpool the size of a CAR DEALERSHIP!

So yeah, we can have any vehicle we want, ex Air Force Buses to haul troops, Vans, and we might have some SUVs too.  CAP has no risk of ownership, or insurance expense, or for that matter, maintenance or gas.

Liability is not ever going to be a problem, we're talking about a total risk absorption ability of several hundred million dollars.

But what is the real risk?  Whats the history of past actions against CAP.

What was the highest award?  It probably does not exceed 1 or 2 million.

A 2 million award would be a disaster for CAP National, but not for the Sheriff, it would be a speed bump, anuitized over 10 years or 20 years.

I know about insurance being in the Financial Industry with Morgan Stanley a few years back.

In my years in CAP I have heard of very few liability issues, I don't know one problem that occured in SE Region, if it happened, I missed the news.

[mikeylikey]

The best advice would come from the Corporate Legal bigwig at National.  Look his number up on-line and give him a call.

I commend your initiative, but I do think there are issues with the plan of action.  CAP can not provide direct support to law enforcement unless it goes through the NOC at National.  However, local law enforcement can donate surplus equipment to local units.  If you want money from a budget of a government agency, you have to have it approved by Wing King, National and MOST importantly the citizens of the locality in which the law enforcement agency operates.  That would be done through either a Mayor or elected governing board.  Don't forget the Sheriffs budget must be approved in advance of each fiscal year. 

[Earhart1971]

The best advice would come from the Corporate Legal bigwig at National.  Look his number up on-line and give him a call.

I commend your initiative, but I do think there are issues with the plan of action.  CAP can not provide direct support to law enforcement unless it goes through the NOC at National.  However, local law enforcement can donate surplus equipment to local units.  If you want money from a budget of a government agency, you have to have it approved by Wing King, National and MOST importantly the citizens of the locality in which the law enforcement agency operates.  That would be done through either a Mayor or elected governing board.  Don't forget the Sheriffs budget must be approved in advance of each fiscal year. 

Ok, lets get past legality, its contingent on a legal rulling from National.

Fine, if it were legal, would you support it with donations, or not?

And by the way, the Sheriff is an elected official and no approvals are needed on his side.

He spends his budget his way.

Rest assured the National entity will be informed, and yes they could shoot down the whole thing.

Worst case is we change the uniforms and press on without CAP, and use the Explorer program as a volunteer vehicle, but I do not want that to happen, the Boy Scouts have half a million members and a larger base, I still don't want to do it that way.

But If everything were approved, and legal, by NHQ CAP, would individuals support it?

That was my original question.

[Eclipse]

Would I support him if I lived in his county?  Probably.

From here, no.

[SKYKING607]

Here in So. California, one Sheriff's Department operates the largest Aero Squadron in the state.  The majority of the members are join CAP/Reserve Deputies. 

As a CAP member, the training the staff receives is in-valuable.  Mission Pilots and Scanners populate the Aero Squadron.  The staff participates in CAP missions whenever and where ever they can.  They do this as a uniformed CAP member!

Now...on election night, they fly as Reserve Sheriff's Deputies ferrying ballot boxes from out-lying parts of the county for tabulation.  They also fly local area missions for lost hikers and such as Reserve Sheriff Deputies.

You will NEVER see a uniformed CAP member fly in a Sheriff's aircraft (fixed or rotary wing).  If there is an OES mission underway, a CAP aircraft may be utilized to transport a dog handler and pup here-and-there.  It's done in our state.

Such an endeavor as a joint-use unit sounds great in concept....but the County Sheriff and the CAP organization must develop and enforce any MOU between them.  Each organization must learn and honor each other's limitations and adhere to them.

Such an endeavor could work and I applaud the effort to try it!

[Earhart1971]

You will NEVER see a uniformed CAP member fly in a Sheriff's aircraft (fixed or rotary wing).  If there is an OES mission underway, a CAP aircraft may be utilized to transport a dog handler and pup here-and-there.  It's done in our state.

Such an endeavor as a joint-use unit sounds great in concept....but the County Sheriff and the CAP organization must develop and enforce any MOU between them.  Each organization must learn and honor each other's limitations and adhere to them.

Such an endeavor could work and I applaud the effort to try it!

What is the reason CAP cannot fly in a LA Sheriff Helicopter?

CAP objections or Sheriff objections?

[Eclipse]

Who pays when it gets broke or you die?

[Earhart1971]

Who pays when it gets broke or you die?

The risk is there, if there were no risk, it would not be CAP!

The Sheriff carries 3 million Liability.

No Sheriff crashes in aviation in the last 10 years, in the tri county area, except stupid stuff like crushing the skids on a hard landing.

[Pylon]

Who pays when it gets broke or you die?

Who's liable in a member-furnished aircraft when operating under CAP auspices?  Is this a similar situation?  It would seem so:  CAP members, operating training or a mission for CAP, while in an aircraft owned and maintained by someone else.

Doesn't mean it's kosher by the regs or it isn't, one way or the other.  I'm merely pointing out that it seems like this is a pretty similar situation.

[Eclipse]

Who pays when it gets broke or you die?

The risk is there, if there were no risk, it would not be CAP!

The Sheriff carries 3 million Liability.

No Sheriff crashes in aviation in the last 10 years, in the tri county area, except stupid stuff like crushing the skids on a hard landing.

I suppose if the county is self-insured, as many local governement agencies are these days, it may play into the equation.  But insuring employees is different than insuring
civilian volunteers.

Whether there has ever been a crash before is a side discussion about rates, but won't have much bearing on whether CAP could operate county vehicles. Not to mention the fact that CAP as an org is not excited about using member-owned aircraft, let alone some other agencies.  Its just not necessary.

And you can forget about rotor craft.  Its not going to happen. You might be able to get CAP people into county helos as observers or assistive aircrew, but you're never going to see CAP pilots flying helos as CAP members.

[Earhart1971]

Who pays when it gets broke or you die?

The risk is there, if there were no risk, it would not be CAP!

The Sheriff carries 3 million Liability.

No Sheriff crashes in aviation in the last 10 years, in the tri county area, except stupid stuff like crushing the skids on a hard landing.

I suppose if the county is self-insured, as many local governement agencies are these days, it may play into the equation.  But insuring employees is different than insuring
civilian volunteers.

Whether there has ever been a crash before is a side discussion about rates, but won't have much bearing on whether CAP could operate county vehicles. Not to mention the fact that CAP as an org is not excited about using member-owned aircraft, let alone some other agencies.  Its just not necessary.

And you can forget about rotor craft.  Its not going to happen. You might be able to get CAP people into county helos as observers or assistive aircrew, but you're never going to see CAP pilots flying helos as CAP members.

Never say Never, with the parties involved, my Sheriff Candidate and CAP.

A whole new outlook is coming! Details soon.

Anybody that is interested in updates: richmond45@yahoo.com

If there are no Risks, there are no Rewards!

[Earhart1971]

Went to lunch with the National Commander and the Florida Wing Commander.

OMG, well I know Danny Levitch from my Cadet days, but the National Commander I just met.  The meeting on our subject went great!

Let me say this, we got ourselves a National Commander that takes no prisoners, and thats good!

For more info just email me, I don't want to broadcast the juicy stuff, but the National Commander has taken some Air Force people to the WOOD SHED, whereas, a lesser of a Commander would have laid down and taken it.

email: richmond45@yahoo.com