Gay/Lesbian Membership Approval/Retention in CAP?

RADIOMAN015 · August 16, 2008, 11:00:33 PM

I haven't seen anything specifically in CAP regulations that state that Gay/Lesbians can't join CAP. HOWEVER, I'm wondering if the actual CAP policy is similiar to the military's "don't ask/don't tell" policy? IF a member/potential member told his/her commander that they were gay would that commander than be forced to initiate 2B action, under CAPR 35-3, section B, para 4b or not initially approve membership?

I'd assume that with CAP having such a large senior membership base, that there's potentially gay members at every organizational level, since in my opinion it would be easier for these members to serve the nation in this organization versus in the military service.

BTW in my military career, we discharged some personnel for being gay per the DOD policy at that time, BUT from my force management experience/observation, all of them were very dedicated to the mission; had very good/excellent duty performance; and no complaints had ever been received from their co-workers about being inappropriately approached.

Personally I have nothing against gays (since my military and business experience have shown that they were not problems to the organization), nor am I trying to start a witch hunt so to speak. HOWEVER, again I'm wondering what CAP's policy is? OR perhaps this really is a "don't ask & don't tell" subject?

RM

RiverAux · August 16, 2008, 11:03:35 PM

It is not a basis for kicking someone out or not letting them in. No factor.

PHall · August 17, 2008, 01:07:03 AM

There have been gay/lesbian members of CAP, both cadet and senior, for as long as I can remember.
And I joined CAP in Dec 1969.

smj58501 · August 17, 2008, 01:07:19 AM

One point of interest, however. Sexual orientation is not addressed (one way or the other) in our nondiscrimination policy. I am not saying it should or should not, and I don't think that changes anything in relation to the original post.... its just not there.

flyguync · August 17, 2008, 01:25:46 AM

As with any member or potential member, if they can do the tasks their assigned, wear one of the multitude of uniforms properly and do nothing stupid then there should be no problem...

With that said if said member does act up etc and you do have it inititate disp action then you better CYA and not let their status influence your decisions in this sue happy society we live in today.

D2SK · August 17, 2008, 01:41:59 AM

Quote from: flyguync on August 17, 2008, 01:25:46 AM
As with any member or potential member, if they can do the tasks their assigned, wear one of the multitude of uniforms properly and do nothing stupid then there should be no problem...

With that said if said member does act up etc and you do have it inititate disp action then you better CYA and not let their status influence your decisions in this sue happy society we live in today.

These types of deviants are not allowed in the US Air Force, and should be likewise DISALLOWED in the US Air Force Auxiliary.

FW · August 17, 2008, 01:55:51 AM

Civil Air Patrol membership is open to ALL that qualify. We do not discriminate based on any criteria other than ability to carry out or support our missions.

If anyone has a problem with this policy, I suggest they not renew their membership. The corporation does not insure members who violate this policy and the leadership of CAP has a zero tolerance for members who wish to "test" it.

flyguync · August 17, 2008, 02:01:59 AM

These types of deviants are not allowed in the US Air Force, and should be likewise DISALLOWED in the US Air Force Auxiliary

Thats the best argument that you can come up with.... Gees

No one is forcing you to be a judge, jury and lynchmob, If you truly have problems with "different" people then Im afraid that CAP is going to be short lived in your future.

MIKE · August 17, 2008, 02:17:01 AM

Ok, I nuked one post already... If we can keep this professional, and above board we can keep this thread open... Otherwise, you know the drill.

JC004 · August 17, 2008, 02:22:35 AM

I'm thinking that it isn't in our ND policy, in part, because the ND is attempting to meet federal/state laws, which in most cases do not cover sexual orientation. I saw a thing before (somewhere) on which states cover it in their ND laws, but it's not a plurality. I think it was on some non-profit management site that I was reading. The other end is that we are supposed to brief on and agree to the DoD ND policy. Since they have the "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" policy and such, it should be fairly obvious why it isn't covered in their policy.

cap235629 · August 17, 2008, 04:09:34 AM

Just for the record, I do not think this is an issue. And for those that do, YOU might want to rethink your position and membership with CAP as our current National Commander is a board member of the Servicemembers Legal Defense Network.

More info on SLDN can be found here:

http://www.sldn.org/templates/about/index.html?section=87

Here is the national board:

http://www.sldn.org/templates/about/index.html?section=80

I sincerely doubt any issues about denying membership based upon sexual orientation would be looked highly upon at NHQ.

WE ARE NOT IN THE MILITARY FOLKS!

DON'T ASK DON'T TELL DOES NOT APPLY!

I just wish some of the folks on here would stop having these delusions that they are in the military and get on with the missions of CAP.

lordmonar · August 17, 2008, 04:28:51 AM

I was wondering when this particular quesiton was going to come up.

Senior · August 17, 2008, 04:32:45 AM

If the National CC is on the Board of the SLDN what is here position on
that Board? What is the CC background and what is her profession?
I was in the Army Reserve when they instituted the DA/DT agenda.
I and a lot of the soldiers in my unit felt it was a social experiment put upon
the military by the military loving >:(Clintons. Please don't comment about
my remarks I was there and saw first hand the divisions it caused in my
unit.

PHall · August 17, 2008, 04:53:19 AM

Quote from: Senior on August 17, 2008, 04:32:45 AM
If the National CC is on the Board of the SLDN what is here position on
that Board? What is the CC background and what is her profession?
I was in the Army Reserve when they instituted the DA/DT agenda.
I and a lot of the soldiers in my unit felt it was a social experiment put upon
the military by the military loving >:(Clintons. Please don't comment about
my remarks I was there and saw first hand the divisions it caused in my
unit.

And it basically caused nothing to happen in my Air Force Reserve unit. The same people kept doing their jobs.
And yes, there were gays and lesbians in the unit, many were "out" and nobody really cared.

It's only an issue if somebody wants it to be.

lordmonar · August 17, 2008, 05:20:12 AM

22 years ago....there were guys in the military.....today there are gays in the military.

22 years from an openly gay man will be chief of staff of the Air Force.

Hawk200 · August 17, 2008, 05:21:44 AM

The lifestyle choice should not ever be a factor in a person's membership in Civil Air Patrol, nor should it ever be an issue in dealing with them in any manner. They don't ask you if you're straight, no reason to ask them if they're gay.

A straight person sleeping around in a unit is far more of a morale issue than someone being a homosexual, especially if there's a lack of discretion. Homosexuality is not an automatic problem like some people assume.

cap235629 · August 17, 2008, 05:23:04 AM

just some more food for thought...

CAP was founded by people who had the desire to serve but were for some reason or another disqualified for military service. Open membership is in our basic foundation. Why is this particular disqualification any different?

As long as you can do the job, I could care less who you sleep with. None of my business. The reality that is the AD military is NOT the reality of CAP.

Whocares · August 17, 2008, 05:37:28 AM

Since being homosexual is not in CAPR 35-3 Section B, then homosexuals are allowed to stay in CAP. Although, I guess you could try to argue it as moral turpitude but I believe that the ACLU would probably fight in favor of the person and NHQ would not even put up an argument and reinstate him/her.

Now, let us reverse this question: Why should not Gay/Lesbian Members be allowed in CAP?

Quote from: SeniorPlease don't comment about
my remarks I was there and saw first hand the divisions it caused in my
unit.

If you do not want your remarks to be commented on, then do not post them. Using that same logic, how many divisions were created when the military started allowing black and white integrated units? Or how about when the first black person was accepted to West Point? Or how about when the first women was allowed into a Service Academy? How about when the Army decided to give women a commission for being a NURSE?

BillB · August 17, 2008, 05:52:57 AM

Probably what has a big effect is state laws. If you live in a state where sexual preference is allowed by law, CAP could be taken to court if a Commander refused a gay or lesbian membership. I've seen gays and lesbians in CAP, and they excelled in their jobs. And I've never seen any relationships develop between gays and lesbians and other senior members or cadets.

Cecil DP · August 17, 2008, 07:06:25 AM

When I was in MAWG, we had a Squadron with 3 openly Lesbian officers. None of them had or caused any problems. In fact one was selected as the Wing Senior Member of the Year. Please wait until there is a problem before commenting on what if. This is a volunteer program and nowhere do we ask about sexual preference-nor should we.