Chain of command

[c/LTCOLorbust]

Ok I have a question but it has backround. here goes nothing.

CAP cadet activity you have a c/2Lt as cadet commander, and you have a c/Maj. just attending this activity, the c/Maj has no staff position what so ever. Both are standing talking about who knows what and a Cadet NCO walks up, salutes the cadet commander and goes on to ask the commander a question.

My question is, should the Cadet NCO have saluted the Cadet Maj first because of being higher in grade then the C/2Lt or should it have played out as is because the c/2Lt is commander making that person higher in rank?

Sorry if its hard to follow...

Thanks

[MIKE]

The C/Maj is still senior regardless of position or lack of it, since they are just standing around. 

This is what happens when you put CAPs concept of grade and rank... and C&C on it's head. 

[c/LTCOLorbust]

Thank you Sir

[Pingree1492]

Really, the NCO in question is saluting both officers, as both are senior in rank.  BOTH officers should return the salute, again, as both are senior in rank to the NCO. 

[mikeylikey]

Really, the NCO in question is saluting both officers, as both are senior in rank.  BOTH officers should return the salute, again, as both are senior in rank to the NCO. 

Correct!  You beat me too it.

[DNall]

The C/Maj is still senior regardless of position or lack of it, since they are just standing around. 

This is what happens when you put CAPs concept of grade and rank... and C&C on it's head. 

Actually that's a VERY normal situation in the military.... NCO needs to talk to me, LTC battalion commander & me talking, NCO walks up (assuming he really wants to interrupt my conversation with the BC) & salutes/good morning sir (to BC), BC returns, turns to me, "excuse me sir but I need to talk to you about XYZ when you get a chance."

[CadetProgramGuy]

I view this a little differently.......although I can see both sides of the coin

I see that the cadet did it right the first time.  He was saluting the cadet commander.  The other cadet did not have a staff position, therefore he was saluting the highest staff officer.

Other side of coin.

What you all were saying....

[lordmonar]

Really, the NCO in question is saluting both officers, as both are senior in rank.  BOTH officers should return the salute, again, as both are senior in rank to the NCO. 

Correct!  You beat me too it.

And you are both wrong.....the NCO is saluting the senior ranking officer in the group and only the senior officer returns the salute.

[IceNine]

What was that little kid standing on the stool saying...

My understanding of this exact situation was always.  C/Maj. Diamond, is under the command of C/1Lt. Bowtome therefore while proper courtesies are to be paid they are aimed at the commander.

For instance, I am a Group Commander, and a Capt. I walk into a unit meeting where the unit commander is a Maj. he however salutes me because I am his superior.

So why would it be any different for cadet tripsonhislaces when he approaches the commander of the unit?

I could be way off base but I can't see how

[lordmonar]

Basically....customs and courtisies.....does not care about position a cadet holds.   I.e.....If your squadron CC (1st) is tallking to same Col who is just standing around.....you salute the the Col! 

It is not rocket science.  You only salute the position in formations.  All other times you salute the grade.

[IceNine]

So if you are chumming around with a few of the Maj's in your unit the cadets salute them before you?

Or are you saying there are 2 seperate standards for seniors and cadets? 

[lordmonar]

If a group of people who are senior to you are chumming around...and you approach the group....you salute the senior officer present...then you ask the individual you need to address if you can talk to them....more appropriately you would ask/inform the senior officer who you need to talk to and they will give you permission.

C&C are simple....senior guy is senior guy....even if the guy is NOT "in charge".

No one should be saluteing your position...unless you are in a formation of some sort.

If you walk into a squadron meeting as the group CC....the squadron CC would/could call the room to attention....but C/SSgt who first saw you enter the room would be wrong to call the room to attention for a mere Capt if a Maj were already present...even if you were Lord God Commander of the Nation.

[DNall]

^yep... and just to be clear, there are no subsequent salutes. You don't salute the Maj, then the Capt, then the Lt in the group. You salute the one senior officer one time & that's it. It it's several Majors then you say gentlemen/ladies as appropriate & hold it till one of them returns the salute. That's it.

[CadetProgramGuy]

So if you are chumming around with a few of the Maj's in your unit the cadets salute them before you?

Or are you saying there are 2 seperate standards for seniors and cadets? 

Not at all.  I have been in squadrons where the Captain is in charge.  We have a Col. as a member of that squadron.  The Col. (AF retired) made it clear that in a group, the Captain is saluted, due to the office of Squadron Commander.

Same idea for cadets.

When in doubt, you always salute the rank, but there are always protocols.

[IceNine]

So you are siding with my initial impression, and not with the thoughts of the others on this board?

or you didn't read the whole thread and are just responding without knowing the context?

[mikeylikey]

And you are both wrong.....the NCO is saluting the senior ranking officer in the group and only the senior officer returns the salute.

umm....try again.  The Cadet is saluting the senior ranking person, but BOTH Officers return the salute. 

[mikeylikey]

  We have a Col. as a member of that squadron.  The Col. (AF retired) made it clear that in a group, the Captain is saluted, due to the office of Squadron Commander.

That is incorrect.  Some you people need to pick up a copy of the Air Force/ Army/Navy/Marine Officers Guide. 

You salute the rank insignia, not the position, UNLESS you are in a ceremony, formation where it then becomes the person who receives the salute no matter what grade. 

If you are walking down the street with a Captain and you are a 1st Lt, and an NCO Salutes, he IS saluting the Captain, but you are required to return the salute along with the Captain.  If you are in a small group and the NCO walks over to the group, the senior Officer will be doing the saluting no one else.

It is not complicated. 

[IceNine]

Instead of spouting off and being offensive try quoting this C&C manual.  It's interesting that you ruin all of your credibility on pretty much every thread you are in simply by insulting everyone who argue's a point.

Right now we have a case of your word against his, against that other guy, and then throw in the guy who doesn't have a clue.

So there are now 2 distinctly different lines and while others have produced at least considerable evidence for their points I can't get past "open a book dummy" in your post

[lordmonar]

And you are both wrong.....the NCO is saluting the senior ranking officer in the group and only the senior officer returns the salute.

umm....try again.  The Cadet is saluting the senior ranking person, but BOTH Officers return the salute. 

If I am only saluting the senior person....only the senior person need return the salute.  This is as it was taught to me in AFROTC.  I can't find the reference....but neither can I find a reference that specifically addresses a junior person saluting a group of senior but mixed ranked indivduals.

[lordmonar]

  We have a Col. as a member of that squadron.  The Col. (AF retired) made it clear that in a group, the Captain is saluted, due to the office of Squadron Commander.

That is incorrect.  Some you people need to pick up a copy of the Air Force/ Army/Navy/Marine Officers Guide. 

You salute the rank insignia, not the position, UNLESS you are in a ceremony, formation where it then becomes the person who receives the salute no matter what grade. 

If you are walking down the street with a Captain and you are a 1st Lt, and an NCO Salutes, he IS saluting the Captain, but you are required to return the salute along with the Captain.  If you are in a small group and the NCO walks over to the group, the senior Officer will be doing the saluting no one else.

It is not complicated. 

Yes it is not complicated....the Col "made it clear" that the squadron was going to deviate from normal C&C......argue with that.