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CAP Talk  |  Operations  |  Safety  |  Topic: FLWG Encampment News release
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BillB
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« on: July 07, 2008, 07:45:28 AM »

ACCIDENT ON LAST NIGHT OF ENCAMPMENT
FLORIDA WING HEADQUARTERS – A serious accident occurred at the Florida Wing Summer Encampment at Camp Blanding, Florida on Friday night, injuring two cadets, one seriously.
Cadet Major Andrea Bastista, 16, a cadet at Miami Spring Optimist Cadet Squadron and a cadet staff officer at the encampment, was injured when struck by a moving all-terrain vehicle.
She was airlifted from Camp Blanding to Gainesville Regional Hospital at the University of Florida where she remains in intensive care.
The family appreciates the many prayers and best wishes for their daughter’s speedy recovery, but asks for no visitors at this time.
Florida Wing Cadet Programs Directorate has set up a web email address, getwell@flcadet.com, for those wishing to offer Andrea their prayers and best wishes.
Andrea, a junior at Miami Palmetto High School, joined Civil Air Patrol in August of 2004, following in her sister Alysandra footsteps. She earned the Amelia Earhart Award in April 2007. Andrea is also the 2007 Florida Wing Phase Three Cadet of the Year.
The other cadet injured in this incident was treated for minor injuries and released.
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Gil Robb Wilson # 19
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JoeTomasone
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« Reply #1 on: July 07, 2008, 10:21:42 AM »

 :o :(

Email sent.
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Cmdbuddy
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My Photos Site
« Reply #2 on: July 07, 2008, 04:26:54 PM »

[mess], I know that girl
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Christie Ducote, Capt, CAP
CadetProgramGuy
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« Reply #3 on: July 07, 2008, 05:36:46 PM »

I think I speak for all of us, when we wish this Cadet a speedy recovery.
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CadetProgramGuy
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« Reply #4 on: July 07, 2008, 07:46:56 PM »

ACCIDENT ON LAST NIGHT OF ENCAMPMENT
FLORIDA WING HEADQUARTERS – A serious accident occurred at the Florida Wing Summer Encampment at Camp Blanding, Florida on Friday night, injuring two cadets, one seriously.
Cadet Major Andrea Bastista, 16, a cadet at Miami Spring Optimist Cadet Squadron and a cadet staff officer at the encampment, was injured when struck by a moving all-terrain vehicle.
She was airlifted from Camp Blanding to Gainesville Regional Hospital at the University of Florida where she remains in intensive care.
The family appreciates the many prayers and best wishes for their daughter’s speedy recovery, but asks for no visitors at this time.
Florida Wing Cadet Programs Directorate has set up a web email address, getwell@flcadet.com, for those wishing to offer Andrea their prayers and best wishes.
Andrea, a junior at Miami Palmetto High School, joined Civil Air Patrol in August of 2004, following in her sister Alysandra footsteps. She earned the Amelia Earhart Award in April 2007. Andrea is also the 2007 Florida Wing Phase Three Cadet of the Year.
The other cadet injured in this incident was treated for minor injuries and released.
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That and this....

Although the CAP did not identify the vehicle's driver and did not say if any charges have been filed, sources at the scene told the Tampa, Fla.-based online military e-zine News of the Force (newsoftheforce.org) today that a CAP cadet was driving the all-terrain vehicle when the accident occurred.

was at http://newsblaze.com/story/20080707112956tsop.nb/topstory.html
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Stonewall
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« Reply #5 on: July 07, 2008, 08:04:28 PM »

In the Air Force and at my police department we have to get "certified" to drive ATVs.  I hope the person driving was certified, especially if it was a military ATV.  Someone's head will roll.  Naturally, the most important thing is the health of the young cadet.  Hope she recovers quickly and without life long problems.

Before I got to my police department, a lieutenant allowed a 16 year old female sit on and ride an ATV during 4th of July.  In less than 5 seconds she drove the thing up a sand dune, flipped it, broke her neck and an 18 year police veteran lost his career and was sued.  Luckily the girl survived and recovered.
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mikeylikey
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« Reply #6 on: July 07, 2008, 09:00:38 PM »

I hope she has a quick recovery.  Hope the ATV driver has a good lawyer. 
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What's up monkeys?
Stonewall
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« Reply #7 on: July 07, 2008, 09:14:39 PM »

Well, Mikey, if it's true that a cadet was operating the ATV, let's hope the owner and/or the senior member(s) supervising such an activity have a good lawyer.

You know, I'm the last one that wants to take "fun" away from cadets.  In fact, I've been berated for "pushing them into the fire", but it takes maturity, experience and good old common sense to know what cadets should and shouldn't get involved in. 

I have experience with ATVs, both as a law enforcement officer and in the Air Force.  They are not to be taken lightly and should never be used unless someone's gone through the accredited and recognized certification.  Even the training can take it's toll.  In 2006 we had a Combat Rescue Officer (CRO) at Patrick AFB during one of the ATV certification courses break his neck.  This is a special operations rescue officer in the Air Force, during ATV training on flat terrain.  Just think what an inexperienced 16 or 17 year old yahoo can do, especially with a "cool" senior member trying to be "cool" with the cadets.

^^^NOT SAYING THIS IS WHAT HAPPENED^^^ but I have seen it in my 21 years of CAP far too many times.  Not with ATVs, but in other areas where I've had to step in.  Yes, me, the "gung ho" over zealous grunt guy who apparently runs a Marine Corps Boot Camp style squadron <<<-----So I've been told.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2008, 09:39:45 PM by Stonewall » Logged
Eclipse
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« Reply #8 on: July 07, 2008, 09:57:46 PM »

Hope the ATV driver has a good lawyer. 

Well, theoretically, if all parties were operating within regs and local polices, then CAP should defend the driver against any lawsuits, etc.

However this is also the "nightmare scenario" we hang over our members' heads about proper uniform wear, credentials, training, and procedures. 

We make a huge deal about bending an airplane, but this kind of activity occurs all the time, and in a blink bad things can happen, and all of a sudden the agency you have been donating your weekends to can't talk to you and the insurance company is measuring the insignia on your uniform to find a loophole on paying a claim. In this case, since it was an encampment, its definitely going to be on the corporate side of the house.

My guess is that at a minimum this generates new rules regarding who can drive ATV's and golf carts during CAP activities (hint: over 18 and with a valid driver's license, and possibly a CAP DL), and may well prohibit their use by cadets.
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BillB
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« Reply #9 on: July 07, 2008, 10:26:03 PM »

CAPR 77-1 prohibits CAP from OWNING an ATV, but I can't find any regulation on useage. Since the accident happened on a military base (FL National Guard Training Site) what regulations or laws apply? Nowhere have I seen the age of the cadet driving the ATV.
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Gil Robb Wilson # 19
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mikeylikey
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« Reply #10 on: July 07, 2008, 10:39:01 PM »

My guess is that at a minimum this generates new rules regarding who can drive ATV's and golf carts during CAP activities (hint: over 18 and with a valid driver's license, and possibly a CAP DL), and may well prohibit their use by cadets.

Unfortunately that is usually what happens after an accident like this.

I would hope that a CAP member did not run her over, or someone that knows her.  That is a terrible thing to live with.

This is all speculation so far anyway, we have no idea what happened, who was driving, etc.  We will wait for the Safety Report to be leaked onto NOTF.    
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mikeylikey
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« Reply #11 on: July 07, 2008, 10:41:44 PM »

CAPR 77-1 prohibits CAP from OWNING an ATV, but I can't find any regulation on useage. Since the accident happened on a military base (FL National Guard Training Site) what regulations or laws apply? Nowhere have I seen the age of the cadet driving the ATV.

hmm....I still think that common sense would apply.  As in CAP says no ATV's, thus members should not use an ATV at a CAP activity?!?

Just like 10 years ago it was very common for CAP members to be given a military license and check out vehicles for use at Encampment.  That practiced has almost completely stopped. 
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Stonewall
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« Reply #12 on: July 07, 2008, 10:43:54 PM »

Just like 10 years ago it was very common for CAP members to be given a military license and check out vehicles for use at Encampment.  That practiced has almost completely stopped. 

Heck, I was a FLWG cadet and had a senior member (without grade) check out a 2 1/2 ton truck to cart the cadets around during a first aid training weekend back in 1988.  I guess he got qualified or something but the Army gave it to him to drive us around in.  And yes, this was on Camp Blanding where the ATV accident happened.  How times have changed.
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Eclipse
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« Reply #13 on: July 07, 2008, 10:44:59 PM »

CAPR 77-1 prohibits CAP from OWNING an ATV, but I can't find any regulation on useage. Since the accident happened on a military base (FL National Guard Training Site) what regulations or laws apply? Nowhere have I seen the age of the cadet driving the ATV.

hmm....I still think that common sense would apply.  As in CAP says no ATV's, thus members should not use an ATV at a CAP activity?!?

Just like 10 years ago it was very common for CAP members to be given a military license and check out vehicles for use at Encampment.  That practiced has almost completely stopped. 

There's pics all over the place of atv's, gators, and golf carts in use at encampments and other activities.
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PHall
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« Reply #14 on: July 07, 2008, 11:39:31 PM »

In California Wing, cadets don't operate golf carts, period.
We don't use them at Encampment, but they do get used at some of the larger air shows.

And yes there is a bit of "history" behind that reg. But this isn't the time or place.
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lordmonar
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« Reply #15 on: July 08, 2008, 12:38:02 AM »

In California Wing, cadets don't operate golf carts, period.
We don't use them at Encampment, but they do get used at some of the larger air shows.

And yes there is a bit of "history" behind that reg. But this isn't the time or place.

I saw cadets driving golf carts at the March Airshow.
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PATRICK M. HARRIS, SMSgt, CAP
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PHall
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« Reply #16 on: July 08, 2008, 12:46:49 AM »

In California Wing, cadets don't operate golf carts, period.
We don't use them at Encampment, but they do get used at some of the larger air shows.

And yes there is a bit of "history" behind that reg. But this isn't the time or place.

I saw cadets driving golf carts at the March Airshow.

A lot of things that weren't supposed to happen, happened at the March Air Show.
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mikeylikey
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« Reply #17 on: July 08, 2008, 01:31:18 AM »

In California Wing, cadets don't operate golf carts, period.
We don't use them at Encampment, but they do get used at some of the larger air shows.

And yes there is a bit of "history" behind that reg. But this isn't the time or place.

I saw cadets driving golf carts at the March Airshow.

A lot of things that weren't supposed to happen, happened at the March Air Show.

Oh no.......someone's in trouble   >:D
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♠SARKID♠
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« Reply #18 on: July 08, 2008, 07:25:55 AM »

This is just another reason that every state should make an ATV safety course mandatory.  WI recently made it required that anyone born after Jan 1, 1988 take a course.  As an WI DNR ATV instructor, I've seen some idiots come through classes that shouldn't have been given a license.  I cringe to think of how people drive ATVs without having taken a class.  I hope this cadet that was driving that ATV had taken a course, otherwise he had no business being on the vehicle in the first place.
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mikeylikey
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« Reply #19 on: July 08, 2008, 11:45:10 AM »

  I hope this cadet that was driving that ATV had taken a course, otherwise he had no business being on the vehicle in the first place.

No need to be on the vehicle at ANY CAP activity.  No need for the vehicle at ANY CAP activity.  We have enough trouble already getting members not to run crap over in corporate vans. 
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JoeTomasone
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« Reply #20 on: July 08, 2008, 12:42:26 PM »

Let's keep in mind that we don't know for sure that a cadet was driving the ATV at all, let alone what qualifications, permissions, and other circumstances existed at the time (such as WHY the accident occurred).

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isuhawkeye
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« Reply #21 on: July 08, 2008, 03:33:18 PM »

I think it is safe to say that ATV'S and other modes of transportation can be very valuable If the following take place

1. the vehicle is properly maintained
2.  the vehicle driver has documentation of formal training and skills compitencies
3.  the driver is properly equipped with appropriate safety equipment including a full face helmet
4. the equipment is deployed to terrain appropriate to the capability of equipment and the driver.
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mikeylikey
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« Reply #22 on: July 08, 2008, 03:50:33 PM »

I think it is safe to say that ATV'S and other modes of transportation can be very valuable If the following take place

1. the vehicle is properly maintained
2.  the vehicle driver has documentation of formal training and skills compitencies
3.  the driver is properly equipped with appropriate safety equipment including a full face helmet
4. the equipment is deployed to terrain appropriate to the capability of equipment and the driver.


Big difference between a golf cart transporting water around at a CAP activity and an ATV.  Why would any CAP activity need an ATV?  What purpose does it serve......other than the "cool factor"??
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isuhawkeye
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« Reply #23 on: July 08, 2008, 04:07:37 PM »

availability for one.  the davenport air show signed a promo agreement with a local atv dealer to provide units for show coordination. 

I have seen several very well coordinated real world sar applications.

www.rramsar.org is a good example

I'm sorry for the thread drift.  I don't want this to take away from this tragedy
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mikeylikey
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« Reply #24 on: July 08, 2008, 04:25:41 PM »

I don't want this to take away from this tragedy

You are correct.  Even if she was the driver or occupant, it is still a tragic event.  One that will add more language to our safety regs, no doubt. 
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Stonewall
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« Reply #25 on: July 08, 2008, 05:28:17 PM »

From a friend in FLWG:  a safety briefing about the ATV was given, with emphasis on, CADETS will NOT drive the ATV.

I also understand that the cadet's condition has been upgraded and may be released in the next day or two.  She has gotten up on her own with some minor problems that should heal with time.
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lordmonar
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« Reply #26 on: July 08, 2008, 07:08:50 PM »

Also a note to clarify.

The cadet in question was not driving the ATV....but the driver was a cadet...who was also injured but not as seriously.

This is from Col Sharkey via Cadetstuff.
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PATRICK M. HARRIS, SMSgt, CAP
Pacific Region
mikeylikey
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« Reply #27 on: July 08, 2008, 08:03:15 PM »

^ That is very unfortunate.  I would imagine a 2b is (has already) been prepared for the Senior Member(s) present that allowed all this to take place.
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What's up monkeys?
CadetProgramGuy
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« Reply #28 on: July 08, 2008, 08:43:25 PM »

^ That is very unfortunate.  I would imagine a 2b is (has already) been prepared for the Senior Member(s) present that allowed all this to take place.

Why a 2b?  I understand the magnatude of the offense, but if this the first time this Officer is in trouble, maybe a suspension is in order?  Remedial Counseling perhaps?

If a 2b is warranted though, the you are looking at several members, not just one.

You would have to 2b the encampment commander as well.  He/She is in overall charge.  Buck stops there.

Tac Officer is in charge of the safety of the flight, 2b them as well.

Slippery slope I know, and I have been drastic as well.....
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JoeTomasone
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« Reply #29 on: July 08, 2008, 10:06:01 PM »

From FLCADET.COM:


Quote
UPDATE ON CADET BATISTA
 
 
Cadet Major Andrea Batista, the Florida cadet that was injured on the last night of encampment, has shown much improvement.
 
 “Although Andrea is out of ICU, her condition is still guarded. She's making great progress and will continue treatment in Miami.” Major Margarita Mesones, the Florida Wing Director of Cadet Programs stated.
 
The web address set up by Cadet Programs, getwell@flcadet.com, has received many responses thus far.
 
“I encourage all Florida Wing to take a few minutes and send Andrea their thoughts and prayers of support and encouragement,” said Colonel Christian Moersch, Florida Wing Commander. “I am sure we will see Andrea back at a Florida Wing activity very soon, but right now, we need her to heal and recuperate.”
 
The Batista family continues to appreciate the many prayers and best wishes for their daughter's speedy recovery and thank everyone for respecting their privacy.
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CAP Talk  |  Operations  |  Safety  |  Topic: FLWG Encampment News release
 


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