Seimac ProFIND DF-500P

Started by Eclipse, July 04, 2008, 12:32:33 AM

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JoeTomasone

Quote from: Eclipse on October 31, 2008, 08:04:15 PM
^ Yes, and that was one of my objections to the device.  The whole "ham-fest project" aspect of it just seems so unprofessional.


Or "no".   

I use mine with a Diamond MAY-1000 antenna, BigMojo uses his with an Arrow beam - both commercial products.


KyCAP

Do they work better with the beam antenna than any L-tronics (new or old) with a beam attached to those (for relative comparison)?
Maj. Russ Hensley, CAP
IC-2 plus all the rest. :)
Kentucky Wing

JoeTomasone

Quote from: KyCAP on November 01, 2008, 11:50:56 PM
Do they work better with the beam antenna than any L-tronics (new or old) with a beam attached to those (for relative comparison)?

Well, this is all covered in much detail in the MK4 threads, but yes - they do.   The main reason is that the MK4 converts the signal strength to an audible tone so that you can hear the difference in the strength as you sweep the beam side to side.   No needle to watch, so you are focusing on your bearing the entire time.   The Sniffer also has 9 self attenuating steps that automatically kick in as you get closer and closer - so no more sensitivity knob to twiddle.   I find myself more engaged with the surroundings visually and considering terrain and obstacles more than worrying about operating the unit. 

Further, the Sniffer is MUCH lighter and smaller than either L-Per -- making use, transport, and storage much easier.

I really can't say this any stronger -- I did extensive field tests with the old and new L-Per, the Seimac, and the Sniffer and the Sniffer won by every metric I could fathom with the one exception that it's tougher to obtain.  But once you have it and spend some time with it, you will assuredly wonder what took you so long to get it.

BigMojo

The only advantage I've seen in favor of the L-Per or Seimac is 243MHz ability. BUT I should hopefully have a 243 capable Sniffer in a couple weeks.

But, as I say to everyone, try all the ones you can, learn it's nuances, and become an expert on its use. All these units work, and "working better" is all in what you as a DF user consider important.

Joe and I preach the Gospel of the Sniffer (and again there is NO "ham project" involved), because it works for us and our needs.
Ben Dickmann, Capt, CAP
Emergency Services Officer
Group 6, Florida Wing

Eclipse

So I asked to de-necro this thread since the Gods of Karma have seen fit to issue me another "No-find", and
I can report and confirm, it's still useless junk, which is the only reason it was available to issue to my unit in the first place.

I will say, however, it does make for nice "high-tech action shots", assuming the viewer doesn't know that the device isn't turned on.

It barely picks up a signal even in close proximity to a beacon, and at the highest volume you can barely hear it.

Interestingly I found an outfit called MetOcean still manufacturing a similar device for buoy and other marine location
that looks like the same case and a similar faceplate (inverse colors). NOVATECHâ„¢ DF-500N.
You can even grab one here:  http://www.ebay.com/itm/Seimac-DF-500N-Hand-Held-Marine-Direction-Finder-Responds-to-Distress-Beacon-x-/331869664725

I didn't spend a lot of time looking into it, but it appears that Seimac and Novatech and MetOcean are all related companies.

With L-Tronics struggling and doing nothing right now but making a list of potential buyers (my gut is the likelihood of them
ever producing more cheeseblocks is very low, considering their primary customer's need is shrinking), I'm now in the
position of having little choice but to get an MK sniffer.

With commercial antennas it looks like it'll run us about $500, not bad compared to the $750 plus for a cheeseblock, but
still a fair piece of change.

We're stuck because we certainly can't get people spun up without something, and this seems to be the only reasonable game in town.

My wing still gets a fair number of ELT searches - this calendar year we've had a non-distress on "my" airport, as well as two
distress searches that wound up having fatalities, along with a handful of non-distress hunts. So DF is still a "thing" for us, just not as much as before.

It sure would be nice if acquiring the proper tools wasn't such a hassle.  I had an olde schoole L-Per in my kit for about 7 years
and rarely used it, now that I need one I can't get my hands on one.

"That Others May Zoom"

Holding Pattern

Quote from: Eclipse on June 30, 2016, 04:06:51 PM
So I asked to de-necro this thread since the Gods of Karma have seen fit to issue me another "No-find", and
I can report and confirm, it's still useless junk, which is the only reason it was available to issue to my unit in the first place.

I will say, however, it does make for nice "high-tech action shots", assuming the viewer doesn't know that the device isn't turned on.

It barely picks up a signal even in close proximity to a beacon, and at the highest volume you can barely hear it.

Interestingly I found an outfit called MetOcean still manufacturing a similar device for buoy and other marine location
that looks like the same case and a similar faceplate (inverse colors). NOVATECHâ„¢ DF-500N.
You can even grab one here:  http://www.ebay.com/itm/Seimac-DF-500N-Hand-Held-Marine-Direction-Finder-Responds-to-Distress-Beacon-x-/331869664725

I didn't spend a lot of time looking into it, but it appears that Seimac and Novatech and MetOcean are all related companies.

With L-Tronics struggling and doing nothing right now but making a list of potential buyers (my gut is the likelihood of them
ever producing more cheeseblocks is very low, considering their primary customer's need is shrinking), I'm now in the
position of having little choice but to get an MK sniffer.

With commercial antennas it looks like it'll run us about $500, not bad compared to the $750 plus for a cheeseblock, but
still a fair piece of change.

We're stuck because we certainly can't get people spun up without something, and this seems to be the only reasonable game in town.

My wing still gets a fair number of ELT searches - this calendar year we've had a non-distress on "my" airport, as well as two
distress searches that wound up having fatalities, along with a handful of non-distress hunts. So DF is still a "thing" for us, just not as much as before.

It sure would be nice if acquiring the proper tools wasn't such a hassle.  I had an olde schoole L-Per in my kit for about 7 years
and rarely used it, now that I need one I can't get my hands on one.

Query: I'm unfamiliar with the regs, so can you tell me if there is an approved list for us to use of locators?

If I built something that cost say... $100 and did the job would it be acceptable?

jeders

Quote from: Starfleet Auxiliary on June 30, 2016, 05:17:08 PM
Query: I'm unfamiliar with the regs, so can you tell me if there is an approved list for us to use of locators?

If I built something that cost say... $100 and did the job would it be acceptable?

No list, use whatever works. If you can MacGyver something for $100.00, then that's wonderful.
If you are confident in you abilities and experience, whether someone else is impressed is irrelevant. - Eclipse

Eclipse

Quote from: jeders on June 30, 2016, 05:19:11 PM
No list, use whatever works. If you can MacGyver something for $100.00, then that's wonderful.

Agreed, but it's gotta work and be reliable, at least for actuals.

This is one reason for my reticence about anything home-built, and / or tromping around an airport w/ pieces of measuring tape
stuck into PVC as an "antenna".  Foxhunting for fun is one thing, but the last thing I want to find myself doing is
sitting in a courtroom trying to explain to a civil attorney and / or jury how and why my garage kit failed to find
Uncle Charlie.

This is what is so frustrating in this regard - the lack of standardization and proper issuance of gear to field resources.
We've got piles of radios still sitting in boxes and shelves all over various wings, but getting a decent L-Per is like puling teeth,
harder now that they are all disco'ed.

I understand at one time every unit had at least one (in theory), but as they were lost or damaged they were not replaced.
If this is still a legit mission of CAP, then it should be treated as such.


"That Others May Zoom"

jeders

Quote from: Eclipse on June 30, 2016, 05:25:59 PM
Quote from: jeders on June 30, 2016, 05:19:11 PM
No list, use whatever works. If you can MacGyver something for $100.00, then that's wonderful.

Agreed, but it's gotta work and be reliable, at least for actuals.

Obviously.

QuoteThis is one reason for my reticence about anything home-built, and / or tromping around an airport w/ pieces of measuring tape
stuck into PVC as an "antenna".  Foxhunting for fun is one thing, but the last thing I want to find myself doing is
sitting in a courtroom trying to explain to a civil attorney and / or jury how and why my garage kit failed to find
Uncle Charlie.

I understand the reticence, but I've seen some of these PVC rigs work particularly well, as long as the operator knows how to use it effectively. Even a half way decent operator can make these options work to get you into the area. Then use an air band radio with body blocking to zero in.

QuoteI understand at one time every unit had at least one (in theory), but as they were lost or damaged they were not replaced.
If this is still a legit mission of CAP, then it should be treated as such.

Agreed.
If you are confident in you abilities and experience, whether someone else is impressed is irrelevant. - Eclipse

LTC Don

This certainly doesn't bode well for us, but in poking around Google, I'm not seeing any vendors with current production DF equipment (at least certainly not at the affordable price range of Cheap>Free).  ACR seems to the happening vendor for transmitters, and they had some 'Vecta' branded DF equipment, and that's even been relegated to legacy status. 

Rockwell-Collins is making aviation equipment, but no handheld DF units.

:o


Seems COSPAS-SARSAT with 406, and our very own cellphone forensics team is putting the handheld DF industry out of business.
Donald A. Beckett, Lt Col, CAP
Commander
MER-NC-143
Gill Rob Wilson #1891

LTC Don

Quote from: LTC Don on June 30, 2016, 05:38:33 PM
This certainly doesn't bode well for us, but in poking around Google, I'm not seeing any vendors with current production DF equipment (at least certainly not at the affordable price range of Cheap>Free).  ACR seems to the happening vendor for transmitters, and they had some 'Vecta' branded DF equipment, and that's even been relegated to legacy status. 

Rockwell-Collins is making aviation equipment, but no handheld DF units.

:o


Seems COSPAS-SARSAT with 406, and our very own cellphone forensics team is putting the handheld DF industry out of business.


Edit:
What, is this?
https://www.amazon.com/Hammerhead-Direction-Finder-beacons-121-5MHz/dp/B00CMD9856
Donald A. Beckett, Lt Col, CAP
Commander
MER-NC-143
Gill Rob Wilson #1891

Eclipse

Quote from: LTC Don on June 30, 2016, 05:40:48 PM
https://www.amazon.com/Hammerhead-Direction-Finder-beacons-121-5MHz/dp/B00CMD9856

Why that's "the most exciting hand held radio direction finder that has ever come to market."
http://www.rffindingsystems.com/index.html



And it can't be used on land...

Why can't the Hammerhead be used on land?

The Hammerhead is designed for vertically polarized signals, which is pretty much guaranteed if the beacon is on water. That is the antenna should be pointed up in the sky. When a beacon is on land, the antenna may be horizontal to the ground or even pointed upside down. In such situation, the directional indictor may not be valid.

The range can be severely limited due to non line-of-sight operation as hills or other obstacles can absorb the signal. In other cases when the signal is reflected, the direction may indicate the reflected direction not the actual beacon direction.

An advanced/expert user may be able to use the product on land, but due to the complexity and skill involved, the Hammerhead is not sold for direction finding on land.

"That Others May Zoom"

LTC Don

It's certainly not a handheld unit, but has anyone worked with one of these?

http://www.mfjenterprises.com/Product.php?productid=MFJ-5005
Donald A. Beckett, Lt Col, CAP
Commander
MER-NC-143
Gill Rob Wilson #1891

LTC Don

My Google-foo isn't that great so I'm just not seeing much out there in handheld df land. 

http://www.fsems.com/sar.html   Anyone ever seen one of these?
Donald A. Beckett, Lt Col, CAP
Commander
MER-NC-143
Gill Rob Wilson #1891

Eclipse

There isn't much, that's the problem.

There's actually an L-Per, in original case, on eBay right now, however I don't need another thing on the pile that
I should "buy assuming it needs repair"

http://www.ebay.com/itm/L-Tronics-Radio-Direction-Finder-121-5-MHz-EPIRB-ELT-finder-/272288405560



It's tempting...


"That Others May Zoom"

Eclipse


"That Others May Zoom"

LTC Don

Quote from: Eclipse on June 30, 2016, 05:59:52 PM
Quote from: LTC Don on June 30, 2016, 05:40:48 PM
https://www.amazon.com/Hammerhead-Direction-Finder-beacons-121-5MHz/dp/B00CMD9856

Why that's "the most exciting hand held radio direction finder that has ever come to market."
http://www.rffindingsystems.com/index.html



And it can't be used on land...

Why can't the Hammerhead be used on land?

The Hammerhead is designed for vertically polarized signals, which is pretty much guaranteed if the beacon is on water. That is the antenna should be pointed up in the sky. When a beacon is on land, the antenna may be horizontal to the ground or even pointed upside down. In such situation, the directional indictor may not be valid.

The range can be severely limited due to non line-of-sight operation as hills or other obstacles can absorb the signal. In other cases when the signal is reflected, the direction may indicate the reflected direction not the actual beacon direction.

An advanced/expert user may be able to use the product on land, but due to the complexity and skill involved, the Hammerhead is not sold for direction finding on land.


That statement is interesting considering they have a video posted showing how to use the thing on land (and on water).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4ujDcPAq9w

Donald A. Beckett, Lt Col, CAP
Commander
MER-NC-143
Gill Rob Wilson #1891

Eclipse

Maybe it's just not reliable enough to support life saving.

I'd bet that might be one factor why these companies are drying up, and the Foxhunters don't sell much on 121.5.

Nobody will (probably) sue you if you don't find a geocache.

"That Others May Zoom"

NC Hokie

Quote from: Eclipse on June 30, 2016, 06:10:41 PM
There's actually an L-Per, in original case, on eBay right now, however I don't need another thing on the pile that
I should "buy assuming it needs repair"

http://www.ebay.com/itm/L-Tronics-Radio-Direction-Finder-121-5-MHz-EPIRB-ELT-finder-/272288405560



It's tempting...

Don't do it if you can't afford to wait MONTHS for L-Tronics (which is, I think, some guy working out of his home) to even look at it.  I sent one in for service in late March and it STILL hasn't been looked at it yet.  I called a couple of weeks ago and was told, "It's here but it will be a while before I get to it."
NC Hokie, Lt Col, CAP

Graduated Squadron Commander
All Around Good Guy

Eclipse

The Vecta 2&3 Line was discoed, and the purported replacement is a 404 as well (see below):

http://www.landfallnavigation.com/sav21.html



I've actually seen these once in a while at SARExs but there they don't seem to be available, either:


http://www.trackersecurity.com/FTV-Receiver.html

http://www.oceanmedix.com/oceanmedix/sku/cOM-tkrFTV468C/cOM-tkrFTV468C.html





"That Others May Zoom"