Seimac ProFIND DF-500P

[Eclipse]

OK, finally an update (of sorts).

After literally a month of email tag regarding who was going to pay for shipping it back to Nova Scotia, I finally called them
yesterday and spoke to the head of RMA and she gave me their Fed Ex account number.

It went out this afternoon, and should be in Canada on Friday.

The next post, I hope, will be how awesome it works when I get it back.

[Eclipse]

Sooooo.....

After all the above (and more external from CT), I finally got it back last week - it showed up on Tuesday at 1030, and I had an actual I could use it on that night, so pretty good from a testing perspective.

While its now repaired and appears fully functional, I'm still disappointed, if only because my expectations were so high.

The issue was a $5 switch that needed to be replaced.  At first, Corbham wanted me to pay for the part, labor, and return shipping to the tune of about $120.  I pointed out that this had been a DOA failure and we should not have to pay for their labor, but since we had sat on this for two years (their records indicate it was delivered in 2006!), it was reasonable to pay for the parts and shipping ($40).

I checked with Wing, gave them my Credit Card and waited for it to come back.

They shipped it in just the Pelican case without a box or lock, which did not make me too happy, but whatever.  Also, upon arrival I found that it had not been repacked in the foam correctly and one of the plastic screws on the practice beacon had been bumping against the recharger and broke off.  Further, the beacon itself had not been reassembled correctly as at least one of the o-ring seals was pinched sideways instead of being seated around the screw.  Both minor customer service issues that I can fix for $1 at the hardware store.

Everything powered up ok, I took it all outside and tested it.

That's when the disappointment set in.

Assuming it is now working to factory spec, its simply not that great a device.

The short antennas limit its reception range to the mid-point of the search, and having no receive mode doesn't make it a more effective device, either.  Inside of 60ft its basically a radio scanner, and occasionally would reboot for no reason (i.e. too many quick presses of the volume controls).

It still has a predilection to indicate right, even when there is no signal to find, and it has a weird growl when you're right on top of the beacon, different from what you would expect from an L-Per.

That night we had two standard L-Pers, the Pro-Find, and my vehicle mounted scanner.  The Pro-Find got us to the same place as the L-Per's, but not with what I would quantify as "confidence".  It reached a certain level of signal strength, and then from there topped out no matter how close we were to the ELT.

So it "works", I guess, but considering it was over $1200 when purchased, I was expecting it to do "more" - at least in as much as being more definite in its indications.

As I said, this is basically a radio scanner with some directional arrows.

If you have a DOA one sitting on the shelf, you should probably have it fixed, if only from the "good steward  of CAP resources standpoint", and having another set of directional eyes in a search isn't a bad thing, however, given the choice I'll probably still reach for the trusty Kennedy-Era L-Per first.

[RADIOMAN015]

Does anyone know the history as to why CAP purchased this unit as opposed to the new L-Tronics equipment that is made by a US firm?

We also had this DF equipment in our unit.  Experienced ES personnel as well as me as the inexperienced didn't think the unit worked right  -- it was sent back to wing per their request.  I do agree with others that the older LTronics gear does seem to be the best.

As an alternatively  personally, I'm looking at taking my Icom R2 & construcing a simple tape measure antenna & than having our ES officer hide the ELT simulator and we will have a competition with both the new & older LTronics gear, as well as my home spun alternative.

RADiOMAN  015       

[RiverAux]

"CAP" doesn't buy DF equipment that I've ever heard of in recent times.  Individual units or wings are totally on their own for this stuff.  Evidently its more important to have lots of brand new radios around so that we can talk to each other about our crappy 20-year old Lper....

[Eclipse]

"CAP" doesn't buy DF equipment that I've ever heard of in recent times.  Individual units or wings are totally on their own for this stuff.

I don't believe that is correct in this case.  To my understanding this was issued to my Wing in 2006.

[wingnut55]

I recall that NHQ had announced that funding for DF equipment was in the planning. It is unconscionable to think that CAP members must spend THEIR PERSONAL MONEY to purchase equipment to find an ELT. THIS MUST CHANGE, maybe one or two NHQ staff need to go to pay for the Equipment, or maybe we buy one less airplane each year. At any rate we are in dire need of DF Units in California, many Squadrons don't have one for the Ground units.

[SarDragon]

OTOH, I know of at least one unit that has a unit funded L-Per that NEVER gets used for actual missions. It gets pulled out of the case once in a while for "cadet training", and I'm not sure there's even anyone in the unit that's ES qualified.

[edit] I just checked -  there isn't. And, it's now a cadet squadron, instead of a composite squadron.

[wingnut55]

OK

what does OTOH mean??

[Eclipse]

On The Other Hand.

[RiverAux]

I recall that NHQ had announced that funding for DF equipment was in the planning. It is unconscionable to think that CAP members must spend THEIR PERSONAL MONEY to purchase equipment to find an ELT. THIS MUST CHANGE, maybe one or two NHQ staff need to go to pay for the Equipment, or maybe we buy one less airplane each year. At any rate we are in dire need of DF Units in California, many Squadrons don't have one for the Ground units.

I know of few people that have spent their own money on their own personal DF equipment.  More commonly the squadron buys them with their funds or in some cases the Wing buys them. 

[Eclipse]

Sadly I know of too many as well - this should be like radios with at least one unit per squadron.

[KyCAP]

Just interjceting some comments.

OPERATIONS at NHQ purchased the SEIMAC units on a limited number for each Wing in 2006.   For example, Ky has 2.   Those were the first DF equipment pieces that were purchased in over a decade in common knowledge (and CEMS) to Ky knowledge.  I think that their intent was for field research honestly.  We're not quite impressed with them either which agrees with the anecdotal information that everyone else has expressed.

Some units that DO purchase their own and have these units could be the units like were mentioned that could be on the downside of their "recruiting cycle".   It is unlikely that the WING would ask a locally funded piece of equipment to be MOVED to another unit.   They paid for it.   I wouldn't move it for the record.   If it were DoD, CAP, or grant monies and ISSUED to a unit then it is on my RADAR in our wing to get moved to a unit with active ES resources.

I am not certain if Direction Finding equipment is even in the Table of Allowances off of the top of my head.   If you EVER want to lobby for funding then their going to need to be in there to get USAF monies spent on them. 

It would be nice to get a committment or PLAN from NHQ whether they are going to fund these or not so that we can get an idea on whether we should purchase them ourselves soon or not...  WE are in DIRE need of having these things updated and refreshed.      Last year I sent every one of our units back to L-Tronics to have the antenna arrays and receivers repaired, tested and calibrated.   I also purchased and replaced the rifle cases to store them in after repair because the ones that we had were destroyed after years of use.    Storing this stuff is KEY.

[Eclipse]

What's sad is all the radio equipment sitting in Wing DC offices that can't be issued because no one in the wing meets the TOA, while units with plenty of comm gear are desperate for an L-Per.

Every EFJ mobile still sitting somewhere in an unopened box is 3-4 of the brand new L-Pers.   

[KyCAP]

Rest peacefully knowing that only a handful of line replacements are in KY Wings "closet" and the gear is issued to the units.   And more accurately, one EF Johnson mobile is about 1.5 L-PERs properly equipped based on the last one that I purchased.

[Eclipse]

Yes, thankfully some wings are better than others on this.

Even 1.5 per is too many.

I was basing my assumption on what I was told on the loss value - $2500 for the mobiles and $1800 for the Ht's (which is why we call the HT's the "mortgage payment").

[JoeTomasone]

OPERATIONS at NHQ purchased the SEIMAC units on a limited number for each Wing in 2006.   For example, Ky has 2.   Those were the first DF equipment pieces that were purchased in over a decade in common knowledge (and CEMS) to Ky knowledge.  I think that their intent was for field research honestly.  We're not quite impressed with them either which agrees with the anecdotal information that everyone else has expressed.

We did a head to head comparison between the Seimac, Old and New L-Per, and the MK4 Sniffer.   Several of us in various Groups here in FL Wing are recommending that the MK4 Sniffer be adopted as the standard for any purchases made by the Wing going forward based on both performance and price.   For every L-Per, you can get 3 MK4's.   They are easy to afford items for those units that want to fund raise to buy them or for an individual who doesn't have a "mortgage payment" to spare...

[jimmydeanno]

OPERATIONS at NHQ purchased the SEIMAC units on a limited number for each Wing in 2006.   For example, Ky has 2.   Those were the first DF equipment pieces that were purchased in over a decade in common knowledge (and CEMS) to Ky knowledge.  I think that their intent was for field research honestly.  We're not quite impressed with them either which agrees with the anecdotal information that everyone else has expressed.

We did a head to head comparison between the Seimac, Old and New L-Per, and the MK4 Sniffer.   Several of us in various Groups here in FL Wing are recommending that the MK4 Sniffer be adopted as the standard for any purchases made by the Wing going forward based on both performance and price.   For every L-Per, you can get 3 MK4's.   They are easy to afford items for those units that want to fund raise to buy them or for an individual who doesn't have a "mortgage payment" to spare...

Sorry if this is off topic, but don't you have to make your own antennas and mounts for these?  I thought I read that on their website.  Wouldn't that be terribly impractical for the average unit?

[Eclipse]

^ Yes, and that was one of my objections to the device.  The whole "ham-fest project" aspect of it just seems so unprofessional.

We should be getting funds allocated to replace our old L-Pers w/ new ones, period, and not be reliant on members with soldering irons and broken tape measures.

[RiverAux]

Ham-fest?  Doesn't seem that complicated to buy an antenna separately from the instrument.... Heck, aren't we teaching cadets how to put together working rockets? 

[Eclipse]

Ham-fest?  Doesn't seem that complicated to buy an antenna separately from the instrument.... Heck, aren't we teaching cadets how to put together working rockets? 

Working rockets don't protect life and property.  DF gear does.

I want one throat to choke if it doesn't work.