Lifesaving Ribbon

[SSgt Rudin]

g. Certificate of Recognition for Lifesaving.
Awarded to members who save a human life, but do not meet the criteria for the Bronze or Silver Medal of Valor. Members who are credited with a save as a result of participation in a blood or organ transport mission will be awarded the basic ribbon. A silver star will be attached to the ribbon in recognition of lifesaving actions other than blood or organ transport. In either case, the ribbon will be awarded only once. Members who were previously awarded the ribbon for a save other than blood or organ transport should attach a silver star to the ribbon and remove all other devices. All previous criteria and wear instructions no longer apply.

Emphasis mine. Why is god's name would you only allow this to be awarded once? Does saving more than one persons life not merit the awarding of a clasp? Obviously this should not be in the forethought of anyone's mind when it comes to life or death decisions, however why are we not recognizing the actions of our members?

[nesagsar]

^I agree for obvious reasons.

[DC]

For the typical person, no. However, if you think about people in a medical or public service career, doctors, nurses, firefighters, EMTs, cops, etc. Don't you think the number of repeat awards might get a little rediculous?

[nesagsar]

I think that if you are turning in paperwork to CAP for stuff you do on the job there is a bigger problem.

[IceNine]

I think that if you are turning in paperwork to CAP for stuff you do on the job there is a bigger problem.

Agreed.  But, on the flip side of that coin you have the folks that get recognized by some media source for particular heroic actions I believe these professionals should also be recognized by our organization for their dedication to the preservation of life.

Example-  A few years ago there was a member of my unit who saved 2 lives, while he was being shot at.
I think he should have gotten 2 Awards for that, but he was denied both awards because "he is a professional"

[RiverAux]

The "problem" arises from the fact that we give this ribbon for activities performed outside of CAP service.  If it was restricted to CAP-related lifesaving there probably wouldn't be a whole lot of people eligible for a second one. 

[Hawk200]

The "problem" arises from the fact that we give this ribbon for activities performed outside of CAP service.  If it was restricted to CAP-related lifesaving there probably wouldn't be a whole lot of people eligible for a second one. 

Probably wouldn't be a whole lot of people eligible for the first.

[Flying Pig]

I think that if you are turning in paperwork to CAP for stuff you do on the job there is a bigger problem.

It doesn't take a whole lot of time to put in for an award, nor do I agree that you shouldn't get the award simply because you are working.  I DO NOT agree that a nurse or police officer should get one simply because they did first aid as a routine duty.  However, if your department chooses to recognize you for an act above and beyond, then I think it is appropriate for CAP to recognize that individual with the appropriate award as well.  We always talk about the fact that CAP members reflect the organization in and out of CAP.  Why should this not be the case here.  "Firefighter/Police officer, also a CAP member receives the CAP XXX medal for......"

As a Deputy, sure, I am placed in situations simply by the nature of my employment, however, I am NOT required in anyway to risk my life or even place myself in danger.   Contrary to belief.  If I do, its because I have made the decision to reach down and grab a'hold in the same manner as Senior Member Jones did when he sees something on the way home.   Its no different than someone on the street deciding to act, I just happen to be sent to these locations.  When my agency takes the RARE step to recognize someone, I dont think its to much to ask that CAP do the same for the member refllecting credit on the organization as well..

[SSgt Rudin]

The "problem" arises from the fact that we give this ribbon for activities performed outside of CAP service.  If it was restricted to CAP-related lifesaving there probably wouldn't be a whole lot of people eligible for a second one. 

Probably wouldn't be a whole lot of people eligible for the first.

Most of the SMOV and BMOV wright ups I have seen were for actions out side CAP.

For the typical person, no. However, if you think about people in a medical or public service career, doctors, nurses, firefighters, EMTs, cops, etc. Don't you think the number of repeat awards might get a little rediculous?

Why should we give someone an award for doing their job? Now if a LEO miraculously preforms a tracheotomy at McDonald's yea he deserves one <Not his job. However if Lt Col Jimmy the ER Doc saves 15 people on his shift one night no he doesn't get even one, but if on his way home he stops at a car wreck and pulls a lady out of her car and preforms CPR till the ambulance gets there then I don't see a problem with him getting a lifesaving ribbon for that, even if he was required to stop and help by law, honestly how many of his colleagues may have done the same after a 12 hour shift?

[Flying Pig]

I think that if you are turning in paperwork to CAP for stuff you do on the job there is a bigger problem.

It doesn't take a whole lot of time to put in for an award, nor do I agree that you shouldn't get the award simply because you are working.  I DO NOT agree that a nurse or police officer should get one simply because they did first aid as a routine duty.  However, if your department chooses to recognize you for an act above and beyond, then I think it is appropriate for CAP to recognize that individual with the appropriate award as well.  We always talk about the fact that CAP members reflect the organization in and out of CAP.  Why should this not be the case here.  "Firefighter/Police officer, also a CAP member receives the CAP XXX medal for......"

As a Deputy, sure, I am placed in situations simply by the nature of my employment, however, I am NOT required in anyway to risk my life or even place myself in danger.   Contrary to belief.  If I do, its because I have made the decision to reach down and grab a'hold in the same manner as Senior Member Jones did when he sees something on the way home.   Its no different than someone on the street deciding to act, I just happen to be sent to these locations.  When my agency takes the RARE step to recognize someone, I dont think its to much to ask that CAP do the same for the member refllecting credit on the organization as well..

Read my post again.  We aren't talking about doing their job, we are talking about those who are recognized for going above and beyond even what their employers consider "required".

[chiles]

As I understand it, to answer the first question, you can be awarded more than one certificate but can only wear one ribbon.

[nesagsar]

I undeerstand that we dont have to go outside of the regular duties. The problem can be in determining what is above and beyond. As a CAP member any lifesaving action is above and beyond my CAP duties (unless I am a GTM), as an EMT the bar gets raised a bit. (Did I mention I'm an EMT? I might have forgot.)

What I dont like about CAP awards in general is that they get handed out to easily. The big one is commanders commendation, I have seen them awarded for cadets bringing pizza to wing headquarters. I have seen signing parties for awards where everybody gets together and decides what awards they want for themselves then they sign each others forms. BSA awards are managed better and I have issues about those too.

[RiverAux]

In regards to this particular ribbon, I haven't seen it handed out friviously.  Even though I don't like that it can be given for non-CAP actions, those that have received it that I've been aware of, actually did do something worth recognizing. 

[nesagsar]

Most likely it was just a problem with my wing.

[SSgt Rudin]

In regards to this particular ribbon, I haven't seen it handed out friviously.  Even though I don't like that it can be given for non-CAP actions, those that have received it that I've been aware of, actually did do something worth recognizing. 

I do not see why you believe it should not be awarded for actions take by members when not on CAP time.

Certificate of Recognition for Lifesaving.
Awarded to members who save a human life, but do not meet the criteria for the Bronze or Silver Medal of Valor.

Silver Medal of Valor.
Distinguished and conspicuous heroic action, at the risk of life, above and beyond the call of normal duty.

Bronze Medal of Valor.
Distinguished and conspicuous heroic action where danger to self is probable and known. (NOTE: In cases where a member is credited with saving a human life, but where the act does not meet the criteria for the Silver or Bronze Medal of Valor, the member should be recommended for a Certificate of Recognition in accordance with paragraph 9g.

Captain Edward A. Wasserman, CAP, distinguished himself by conspicuous, heroic action above and beyond the call of duty on 29 May 1998. While sitting in his office at Piper High School in Sunrise, Florida, Captain Wasserman heard what sounded like an explosion coming from a common area. Rushing to the area, he spotted a thrash can with smoke and fumes eminating from the top. With complete disregard for his own personal safety, Captain Wasserman opened the trash can and observed an exploded plastic container and a second unexploded device. Realizing that even if the second device did not detonate the fumes and vapors from the first acid explosion could cause severe health problems for the students, Captain Wasserman decided to remove the can from the building. Although the fumes and vapors caused severe irritation and acid burns on Captain Wasserman's face and neck, he carried the can into a parking lot well away from the student population. Captain Wasserman's heroic actions preserved the health and safety of hundreds of students and staff members as well as prevented possible damage to school property. The singularly distinctive accomplishments of Captain Wasserman reflect great credit upon himself, the Florida Wing and Civil Air Patrol.

Cadet Andy E. Lansdowne, CAP, distinguished himself by conspicuous, heroic action on 9 March 2000. While traveling northbound on a state highway, Cadet Lansdowne noticed the vehicle in front of him start to drift off the side of the road. The car eventually left the road, hitting and then jumping a fence, which sent it sailing into a pond. Cadet Lansdowne stopped his car immediately. Getting as close to the pond as he could, he noticed the first car slowly sinking into the pond. With complete disregard for his own personal safety, Cadet Lansdowne jumped into the freezing water and tried to open the driver's door. The doors were locked, trapping the driver inside the vehicle. In spite of the freezing water temperature and the fact that the car was continuing to sink, Cadet Lansdowne went around to each door refusing to give up. With the help from a passing motorist, the back window was broken and they were able to pull the victim from the sinking vehicle. The victim was not breathing and had no pulse. In spite of having very little feeling in his hands and body, Cadet Lansdowne used the medical kit from his ground team gear and remained with the victim beginning life saving efforts until the paramedic arrived. Cadet Lansdowne refused to be treated for his injuries until the victim was cared for. Cadet Lansdowne's quick thinking, heroic action, and complete disregard for his own personal safety reflects great credit upon himself, the Indiana Wing, and Civil Air Patrol.

Neither of these actions were on CAP time, should these men have not be awarded the SMOV and BMOV, respectfully? And if they did it again should they not be awarded a second SMOV or BMOV?

CAPR 39-3 specifically says that the Certificate in Recognition of Lifesaving is awarded for actions not deemed to meet the criteria of the SMOV or BMOV. A situation, in my opinion, that would meet this requirement is stopping at a car wreak and pulling someone from a car to preform CPR, the car was not on fire and there was no immediate risk to ones own life, however the actions did save the life of another human being, and were "Above and Beyond the call of duty."

Actions such as that are what deserve recognition, however I have seen this awarded for a situation such as the following: a CAP squadron was working at a hurricane shelter. After the storm, once everyone had left the cadets were making sure the building was clear. One cadet finds an elderly man on the floor complaining of chest pains, said cadet runs and gets the on site paramedics and they take over. Yes the actions of the cadet did directly affect the man's survival since there was no one else in the building to find him, but the cadet did not do anything "Above and beyond the call of duty" the cadets actions are what we would expect any lay-person to do. Yet he was still awarded the Lifesaving Ribbon. Now this did not actully happen, but it was a similar situation.

I think the issue of how many Certificate's in Recognition of Lifesaving are given out is not because CAP awards them for actions off CAP time, rather the broad scope for which this award can be given.

[RiverAux]

Yes, I realize that the current regulation does not restrict it to actions done while in CAP service...I'm saying that it should be.  Actually, in another thread I've advocated upgrading it to a ribbon, but restricting it solely to CAP service. 

[SSgt Rudin]

Yes, I realize that the current regulation does not restrict it to actions done while in CAP service...I'm saying that it should be.  Actually, in another thread I've advocated upgrading it to a ribbon, but restricting it solely to CAP service. 

I realize that you realize that the current regulation does not restrict it to actions done while in CAP service... I'm asking why you think it should be changed to restrict it to only actions done in CAP service, and if we do that should we change the requirement of the SMOV and BMOV to the same? Only because it is supposed to be awarded for actions that do not meet the requirement of the SMOV or BMOV. If we do change the lifesaving and not the SMOV and BMOV we are basically saying "If you risk your neck to save someones life off CAP time you get recognized, but if don't risk your neck and if its off CAP time we won't recognize it."

[James Shaw]

They have the criteria setup becuase in their view if you are a compensated professional who has chosen a specific type of job and accept the risks and compensation of that profession that you are allready getting paid for your service. If you are volunteering or not getting compensated than you are risking more because you are not a professional "rescuer" with the necessary training. That is the way it was explained to me many years ago when I had the same question.

[CAPOfficer]

For those who weren't members when the Certificate of Recognition for Lifesaving was established, the award could originally be given more than once and devices added to the ribbon for these awards.

However, a problem materialized when multiple awards were being given to members for blood and organ transport missions.  Understanding that you had a select number of aircrew members being awarded numerous awards for these missions, you were bound to have the appearance of unfairness and the general feeling of envy from those not accomplishing these missions.  After a while, the missions also developed the impression of being quite routine (not an emergency).  So, the cry went out over the land about this perceived unfairness.  The answer to the problem was to restrict the award one and only one, no matter which of the two criteria's the award was based on.

Personally, I believe if the membership feels an award is justified for blood & organ transport missions, a separate ribbon should have been designed to fill this void or need.  It's not that I support the invention of more ribbons, I don't.  However, history has shown the membership doesn't support the award of multiple Lifesaving awards for them either.

Furthermore, in having its own ribbon (blood & organ transport), those members having a direct, hands-on involvement in saving a life could receive additional recognition for those actions meriting it; although those would be far less than you may think.

As for the Medal's of Valor, more than one award is possible.

[SSgt Rudin]

For those who weren't members when the Certificate of Recognition for Lifesaving was established, the award could originally be given more than once and devices added to the ribbon for these awards.

However, a problem materialized when multiple awards were being given to members for blood and organ transport missions.  Understanding that you had a select number of aircrew members being awarded numerous awards for these missions, you were bound to have the appearance of unfairness and the general feeling of envy from those not accomplishing these missions.  After a while, the missions also developed the impression of being quite routine (not an emergency).  So, the cry went out over the land about this perceived unfairness.  The answer to the problem was to restrict the award one and only one, no matter which of the two criteria's the award was based on.

Personally, I believe if the membership feels an award is justified for blood & organ transport missions, a separate ribbon should have been designed to fill this void or need.  It's not that I support the invention of more ribbons, I don't.  However, history has shown the membership doesn't support the award of multiple Lifesaving awards for them either.

Furthermore, in having its own ribbon (blood & organ transport), those members having a direct, hands-on involvement in saving a life could receive additional recognition for those actions meriting it; although those would be far less than you may think.

As for the Medal's of Valor, more than one award is possible.

OK simple solution:

Blood and Organ Transport
Initial: ribbon with bronze prop
5: bronze prop and one bronze triangle clasp on the wearers right of the ribbon
10: bronze prop and two bronze triangle clasps, one on each side of the prop
15: silver prop
20: silver prop and one silver triangle clasp on the wearers right of the ribbon
25+ silver prop and two silver triangle clasps, one on each side of the prop

Lifesaving
Initial Save: Ribbon
2 saves: one bronze star
3: two bronze stars
4: three bronze stars
5: four bronze stars
6: one silver star
7: two silver stars
8: three silver stars
9: four silver stars
10: one gold star

like so:

[SSgt Rudin]

ok, so I just noticed that there is no silver prop. 

[nesagsar]

Spray paint.

[GPVIIOps]

For the typical person, no. However, if you think about people in a medical or public service career, doctors, nurses, firefighters, EMTs, cops, etc. Don't you think the number of repeat awards might get a little rediculous?

As a Firefighter, I don't think I qualify for this while I am at work. It is what I get paid to do and not really anything over and beyond in service. Over the years I have assisted in the "saving of life" with others on my crew, but I have never put in for this.

[Jolt]

The last two I saw awarded were for involvement in EMS.  The first award was for a volunteer EMT that was the first first responder on scene and started CPR on the patient before the ambulance arrived.  The second was for an EMS explorer on a ride along that did chest compressions for someone in cardiac arrest under the instruction of the crew.

Then again, cardiac arrests aren't things that occur every day in every town.

[SSgt Rudin]

The last two I saw awarded were for involvement in EMS.  The first award was for a volunteer EMT that was the first first responder on scene and started CPR on the patient before the ambulance arrived.  The second was for an EMS explorer on a ride along that did chest compressions for someone in cardiac arrest under the instruction of the crew.

Then again, cardiac arrests aren't things that occur every day in every town.

1. Was the Volunteer EMT on duty at the time or just happened to be passing by?
2. I wouldn't consider an EMS Explorer a "Life Saving Professional"

[Jolt]

That particular EMS organization is part of the fire department and the volunteer EMT responded directly to the scene when he heard the call on the radio.

[Timothy]

<Edited to stay more or less on topic>

I think the Lifesaving medal should stay at its current requirements, but allow multiple awards. MAYBE have a device differentiate between awards for CAP and non-CAP actions.

But I've got to agree with Riveraux on this one... SMOV, and BMOV should be for actions while on cap duty only.

These people that do great things outside CAP should be recognized, but there are plenty of civic, city, and state organizations and awards for that.

All high military and organizational medals of valor require that the act be in the line of duty. The exception to that is the AF lifesaving medal... and our lifesaving medal seems to already fill that roll.

If I'm getting a sub at the local sandwich shop after hitting the beach... and someone falls over and I give them CPR... they come to, everyone is happy, I get my sub and go home. Subway may give me a lifetime sandwich supply, and the city of Long Beach may give me the key to the city, but why would I expect an aerospace education and search and rescue corporation to give me a medal? The two just seem so unrelated.

BSA and ROTC both award non-related acts of valor... but neither organization are in the business of saving lives. CAP is... we do search and rescue, find crash sites, etc., and can, and are in a position where lives are at stake, so our medals should be held for actions in the line of duty. What constitutes the line of duty is up for someone further up the "O" chain than I.

[SSgt Rudin]

All high military and organizational medals of valor require that the act be in the line of duty. The exception to that is the AF lifesaving medal... and our lifesaving medal seems to already fill that roll.

While It may not be a valor award I have seen an E-4 get awarded the Meritorious Service Medal for taking 2 weeks of leave to assist the American Red Cross in New Orleans directly following Katrina. The only other times I have seen the Meritorious Service Medal awarded is for a Commanding Officer's or a Command Master Chief's end of tour award.

[arajca]

How would you define CAP duty? Meetings and activities only? Missions? What about when I am runnig errands for CAP? Travel to and from meetings, activities, etc? What about combined errands - some personal, some CAP - in one trip?

It is easy for the military to define line of duty. Not so easy for us.

[Gunner C]

All high military and organizational medals of valor require that the act be in the line of duty. The exception to that is the AF lifesaving medal... and our lifesaving medal seems to already fill that roll.

While It may not be a valor award I have seen an E-4 get awarded the Meritorious Service Medal for taking 2 weeks of leave to assist the American Red Cross in New Orleans directly following Katrina. The only other times I have seen the Meritorious Service Medal awarded is for a Commanding Officer's or a Command Master Chief's end of tour award.

In Special Forces the running joke was that you had to get killed to get Meritorious Service Medal.  (Everyone who was zapped in Latin America got an MSM, later upgraded to Purple Hearts and BSMs/SS).  It was usually for the RASH troops - they didn't pay nearly as high a price.

You'll never have an even standard for stuff like this.  It's in the eye of the commander - the commander has the yea/nea on if it gets submitted or even approved.

GC

[Slim]

The last two I saw awarded were for involvement in EMS.  The first award was for a volunteer EMT that was the first first responder on scene and started CPR on the patient before the ambulance arrived.  The second was for an EMS explorer on a ride along that did chest compressions for someone in cardiac arrest under the instruction of the crew.

Then again, cardiac arrests aren't things that occur every day in every town.

They don't?  My service averages at least one every day.

1. Was the Volunteer EMT on duty at the time or just happened to be passing by?
2. I wouldn't consider an EMS Explorer a "Life Saving Professional"

That particular EMS organization is part of the fire department and the volunteer EMT responded directly to the scene when he heard the call on the radio.

Shame on him (or her) for accepting a CAP CoRLS for something that was done as part of their job.  Volunteer or not, that community, and that person, were paying for him to be there to provide that service.  Performing CPR is not what I consider duty above and beyond; that's just part of the job when working EMS.  So is doing a search of a burning building and finding a victim to rescue, if you're a firefighter.  Status (paid or volunteer) has nothing to do with it.  Either way, your community is expecting you to be the "Someone" in the phrase "Someone has to do something."

The explorer is kind of iffy to me.  Again, if it's part of the normal expectations of being an explorer, then it doesn't meet the "Above and beyond" litmus test.

I would never even think of accepting an award for something I did on the job.  If so, I would have qualified for six Lifesaving certificates.  I don't need a rare ribbon on my rack to know what I did; the knowledge that six people are alive and walking  because I was in the right place at the right time, is enough for me.