Required cadet uniforms????

[John Bryan]

Ok....I know this started as an issue of wearing BDUs on activities and all.....BUT I cannot help but add my 2 cents on the ES side track.

1. Should cadets be part of ES? Yes....many wings need cadets to form ground teams and perform this mission. We need them.

2. Does ES take away from the Cadet Program? NO....the Cadet Program is to teach leadership, team work, communications skills, etc.....ES is a great real world lab for the Cadet Program.

3. Are cadets too young? Some might be.....but age should not be the main test but rather the readiness shown to their commanders and leaders. Have you been to the beach? How old do you think most life guards are.....how many of are older cadets are already members of volunteers on the local rescue squads, how many are EMTs and 1st Responders. In some states you can be a certified 1st responder at 16. There seems to be a lot of worries about the "danagers of younger cadets". I would ask you to consider William "Willie"Johnston, he was only 12 when he earned the Medal of Honor. Some would say times have changed......but I would say that the biggest thing to change is WE expect too little from young people. CAP is one of the few places where young people can serve and do great things.....we should not change that.

[Eclipse]

Here, here!

One of the best parts of the cadet program is that cadets can have a legitimate real mission at the age of twelve.  I was a Boy Scout, and helped in my community, but frankly most of the first aid and other classes were just lip service. 

Even if its not on the front lines, cadets can do real work on a regular basis as a part of their progression.

[flyguy06]

I dont knoiw the answe to this so this is only a guess. But because the Wing CC is a corporate officer, cant he prescribe regulations adding to the CAP regs. You can add to but not take away from the regs so eventhouigh the regs say at a least a blue shirt and blue pants, couldnt the Wing CC perscribe more to that?

[Matt]

In theory, yes.  However, there must be some way of providing the cadets with them.  Simply because defining the basic uniform is a means of not MAKING cadets pay additional costs unless they want to (minimal uniform is given by Nat'l minus the pins).

Yes, the Wing/CC could make a supplement that cadets must wear more, however, (s)he would have to give a means to acquire those items free, or a voluntary low price.

[footballrun21]

That's true.  NHQ might give you the blues uniform, but isn't it more expensive the first year for national dues because some of that goes to pay for the uniform?  Pluse you will get the uniform, but you still need to buy the required items like pins ans patches to be able to wear the uniform.  So pretty much when you join CAP, you're saying that you need to buy almost all of you uniforms/uniform items.

CAP doesn't pay for anything.

[Pylon]

That's true.  NHQ might give you the blues uniform, but isn't it more expensive the first year for national dues because some of that goes to pay for the uniform?  Pluse you will get the uniform, but you still need to buy the required items like pins ans patches to be able to wear the uniform.  So pretty much when you join CAP, you're saying that you need to buy almost all of you uniforms/uniform items.

CAP doesn't pay for anything.

True -- you are required to purchase insignia, without which, you can't wear the basic blues uniform. 

However, just a minor correction -- dues aren't higher for new membership because of the uniform.  It's higher for both cadets and Senior members, and SMs don't get any free uniform.  The first-time extra bucks go towards the books/binder/orientation materials that NHQ sends new members.   

Money for the Free Cadet Uniform program is provided by the Air Force on an annual basis and has nothing to do with dues money.  When the allotted AF funding for the year runs out, no more free uniforms are issued until the next fiscal year begins.  This wouldn't be the case if the costs of the uniforms were figured into the joining cost (perhaps they should be).

[MIKE]

but isn't it more expensive the first year for national dues because some of that goes to pay for the uniform? 

Initial membership costs more than a renewal because it covers the cost of the new cadet packets...  The uniform is funded by the USAF.  No funding or no funds remaining for the fiscal year means no uniform.

[SarDragon]

According to the latest change to CAPR 39-2, there is no longer a difference between the prices for new and renewing cadets.

[capchiro]

It appears that I missed something.  Some people have voiced the opinion that the Wing Commander can mandate uniforms, such as BDU's etc., beyond what the uniform manual requires.  According to the legal department, National issues Rules and Regulations, not suggestions and ideas.  Any additional or different concept from a Wing Commander should go through National for their approval.  We are a national organization made up of local Wings, but those local wings fall under the control and domain of the national agency.  Local Wings are not authorized to change national reg's according to my local shyster.     

[flyguy06]

Here is my opinion.
SHould cadets be part of ES? yes, it is an activity that teaches leadership.

Does ES take away from the cadet program. Yes. The cadet program is an "AVIATION" based program, but you have units that dont do anything related to aviation. Its all ground team, first aid, rescue techniques, camping communications. Nothing dealing withflying airplanes or careers inaviation. Isnt that the mai purpose of CAP? To train youth to be leaders in an aerospace environment.

Its cool to go out do all that camping and rapelling and stuff ( I am an Infantry officer, I do it all the time), but bottom line, thats NOT the main purpose of the cadet program like it or not.

[ladyreferee]

Have we forgotten that there are three missions for CAP - Cadet Programs, Aerospace Education, and Emergency Services?  Small units may not be able to have all the knowledge or personnel to cover all three missions adequately.  So they pick one or two missions to do well, hence, the unit that does just ES and skips the AE.  My small unit is trying to cover all three missions - we aren't up to excellent on any of the three parts yet, but at least we are trying to offer alot of different activities for the cadets to be exposed to.

[Eclipse]

It appears that I missed something.  Some people have voiced the opinion that the Wing Commander can mandate uniforms, such as BDU's etc., beyond what the uniform manual requires.  According to the legal department, National issues Rules and Regulations, not suggestions and ideas.  Any additional or different concept from a Wing Commander should go through National for their approval.  We are a national organization made up of local Wings, but those local wings fall under the control and domain of the national agency.  Local Wings are not authorized to change national reg's according to my local shyster.     

Your local shyster is not 100% correct on this.

Wing CC's have some limted authority to make regulations MORE strict than NHQ, as well as authorizing non-critical components of the standard uniforms such as t-shirts, covers and insignia.

Unit commanders also have some limted authority in the same area, depending on Wing policies.

As a general rule, these uniform supplements are applicable only within the state the Wing CC has authority, and some times reguire Region approval as well.

As an example. Nevada Wing is wear-testing berets until the end of the year inside the state for GTM's only.

For Seniors, the Wing CC, Unit CC, or duty commander has the authority to require a specific uniform for a given purpose or mission.

As Seniors, of course, members who don't have it, or don't agree with the CC, can choose to not participate.

[Matt]

Nevada Wing is wear-testing berets until the end of the year inside the state for GTM's only.

Well that's a bummer.  One would assume that the visors would be the privilege and everyone else is unsheltered  .

[Cmdbuddy]

As far as requiring BDU's for Encampment, which is required for your Mitchell, this is what I have to say: if you want your Mitchell,  you're going to have to make some sacrifices.  Time, studying, etc.  And that means spending a few bucks to get a uniform.  You can't get everything for free nowadays. 

At my squadron, when a cadet joined, we let them know right then what the extra costs were going to be to do stuff.  Afterall, I don't get to go to NFA, IACE, etc. for free, do I?  If you really want something, teenagers will do what it takes to get it.  I've known people to babysit and stuff to buy stuff for CAP.  I guess it's better than video games...

Also most squadrons and wings have  supply "closet" full of stuff.  I know my squadron had boxes of BDU blouses, pants, boots, and blues uniforms.  If they could fit in it, it was theirs.  Personally, I like all of my stuff new, and I have that option if I want to shell out money for it.  I know if we didn't have it at the squadron, we'd schedule a trip out to wing hq about once a quarter to allow people to see if there's something there that they need.  Well, of course, that was before my wing headquarters were destroyed by the 'cane named Katrina.

"Ain't no uniforms here..."

[Five-seveN]

Jeez.....

[Eclipse]

That doesn't look like Mississippi, is that Louisiana?

[footballrun21]

You can't get everything for free nowadays.

Can't get ANYTHING for free nowadays!

Also most squadrons and wings have  supply "closet" full of stuff.  I know my squadron had boxes of BDU blouses, pants, boots, and blues uniforms.  If they could fit in it, it was theirs.

I have a small squadron and we don't do that.  We should, but we don't.  I guess if we needed it that bad we would go to Wing HQ.  We also wouldn't be able to have a whole room of supplies because we don't have our own place just for CAP (trailer, etc.) we've always had to use a public place like a school or even a church (which we did use, but only their "gathering hall" or whatever it's called).

[Cmdbuddy]

That doesn't look like Mississippi, is that Louisiana?

Yup, LAWG Headquarters.

[Cam89]

We used to get used uniforms for free at my squadron. We don't anymore eversince we ran out of money to pay fo the lights and extra stuff for the hanger. We don't have anyone to sponser us. Some of our cadets can't even afford to go the activities we hold.

[Xeno]

Some of our cadets can't even afford to go the activities we hold.

We used to have that problem too. Until we found a fund raiser that is actually worth while. Here in Texarkana we have a rotary club that contracts people out to put flags up all over town during holidays. We get $100 per route and have have 2 routes. We do this about six times a years for a total of $1200 per year. Of course, we also get donations and things like that as well. So money is rarely an issue here. Last year we paid for a little over half of the tuition to National Powered Flight for a cadet. Now the only problem is finding cadets who care enough to help us put the flags out. I've thought about instituting a "no help/no benefit" policy for those who won't show up.