CAP/CC Letter 28 Jan 08

[SJFedor]

A new uniform letter came out today from CAP/CC, outlining ALL the changes that TP has made, and giving further guidance on what is changing from his changes.


http://level2.cap.gov/documents/2008_01_25_Uniforms.pdf

[MIKE]

[darn]... Now I have to update the links in my sticky again.

[Hawk200]

Kinda nice to have it all in one letter now. Will make it easier for the info board at my unit.

For now, got to buy new command patches. At least it's a fairly inexpensive change.

[FW]

Don't buy any new patches until after the NB meeting.  They may change things again.

[brasda91]

I think this has been discussed before, but in regards to the CAP cutout, do the C/AB leave both collars "clean" until promotion to C/Amn?

[Hawk200]

I think this has been discussed before, but in regards to the CAP cutout, do the C/AB leave both collars "clean" until promotion to C/Amn?

I think someone asked Knowledgebase on that issue, and the response was that AB's wear the cutouts. Don't remember where exactly that was, but perusing Knowledgebase might dig up the answer.

[brasda91]

I think this has been discussed before, but in regards to the CAP cutout, do the C/AB leave both collars "clean" until promotion to C/Amn?

I think someone asked Knowledgebase on that issue, and the response was that AB's wear the cutouts. Don't remember where exactly that was, but perusing Knowledgebase might dig up the answer.

Yeah, I just talked to Suzie at National and she said C/AB DO wear the cutouts on both collars.

[cnitas]

Still no word on Berets/Ranger Bling...   

[scooter]

So, that blue flight suit still costs around $250. Not exactly keeping the cost down!

[SarDragon]

Nomex ain't cheap. 

[Hawk200]

Nomex ain't cheap. 

True, but it could be cheaper than $250. $150 would be nice, $175 is far more reasonable. There's a few places you can get a flightsuit in just about any color for that.

[FW]

Still no word on Berets/Ranger Bling...   

They're saving the good stuff for last.  

[RiverAux]

Note that there is no mention of the VSAF uniform, so it isn't official yet. 

[pixelwonk]

It's a pilot program barely on the embryo end of its infancy.  I think it's reasonable to guess that they aren't likely to publish the VSAF uniform in a Reg or ICL until it's proved to be a relatively stable program that's been opened up at other bases.

[RiverAux]

While they can certainly set up the guts of the program however they want, I don't see how "pilot" status gets them around the uniform regulation especially when you consider how anal they and the AF are when it comes to denying insurance benefits over uniform issues. 

[pixelwonk]

Gets "who" around the uniform regulation?  Top CAP leadership or USAF? 

After reading your post a few times, all I gather from it is that the uniform should have come before all else.
Never mind the fact that the program is new and only in a test phase right now.
Never mind the fact that it is being developed by the highest levels of CAP leadership and USAF.
Never mind the probability that there is a lot that you or I don't know yet.

Go tell USAF they should have minded CAP regs before being a developer in this project.  Better yet, go ask them to put it on hold while you iron this whole uniform issue out.  Be sure to let us know how that turns out. 

Do you really believe that someone in need of insurance bennies in the event of an accident, wearing the uniform that they were directed for VSAF, is gonna be SOL because it hasn't been put into an ICL, much less a grossly outdated uniform manual?

[BillB]

One possibility that the VSAF uniform is not listed in the CC letter, it may be an USAF uniform for VSAF, thus not covered by CAP regulations.

[mikeylikey]

One possibility that the VSAF uniform is not listed in the CC letter, it may be an USAF uniform for VSAF, thus not covered by CAP regulations.

We have a winner here!  I was thinking the same thing today, and after discussing it with others, we came to the same conclusion.  I can see the AF and CAP saying "come to the VSAF meeting in khaki's and we will give you a new shirt.

[RiverAux]

I don't think I'm being unreasonable in pointing out that this shirt is not currently authorized by regulation.  It would take all of about 10 minutes for the National Commander to write an interim change letter authorizing this uniform for this specific activity.  Its not a big deal to do right. 

[jimmydeanno]

Sometimes you guys are ridiculous...

[JohnKachenmeister]

Gets "who" around the uniform regulation?  Top CAP leadership or USAF? 

After reading your post a few times, all I gather from it is that the uniform should have come before all else.
Never mind the fact that the program is new and only in a test phase right now.
Never mind the fact that it is being developed by the highest levels of CAP leadership and USAF.
Never mind the probability that there is a lot that you or I don't know yet.

Go tell USAF they should have minded CAP regs before being a developer in this project.  Better yet, go ask them to put it on hold while you iron this whole uniform issue out.  Be sure to let us know how that turns out. 

Do you really believe that someone in need of insurance bennies in the event of an accident, wearing the uniform that they were directed for VSAF, is gonna be SOL because it hasn't been put into an ICL, much less a grossly outdated uniform manual?

Tedda:

I pick up on the sarcastic tone of your post, but...

What you describe is exactly what happened!

Paragraph 1:  "We have a new mission."

Paragraph 2:  "And we have a new uniform to go along with the new mission."

[dwb]

I consider the VSAF uniform to be much more akin to a wear test than actual prescribed dictum.

Basically, we're doing this new program we've never done before, as part of the pilot effort, we've thrown together these threads to wear.

As such, I wouldn't expect to see an amendment to CAPM 39-1 to accommodate it, just as you don't see the new USAF wear test uniforms in AFI 36-2903.

[pixelwonk]

^^cheer! 

[floridacyclist]

Still no word on Berets/Ranger Bling...   

You say that like it's a bad thing LOL

[Brad]

I don't think I'm being unreasonable in pointing out that this shirt is not currently authorized by regulation.  It would take all of about 10 minutes for the National Commander to write an interim change letter authorizing this uniform for this specific activity.  Its not a big deal to do right. 

Doesn't it stand to reason that a gigantic "Click me!" ad on the www.cap.gov main page, plus a full-page article on the link's destination page with accompaning photo, both which are still on www.cap.gov, are more than enough to label this as "authorized"?! Not to mention the same news being given on www.af.mil.

I'm just trying to be the voice of reason here. The news announcement will do fine for now. Give the program time to get on its feet and see if it will even stay around before you start calling for an ICL.

[Hawk200]

Doesn't it stand to reason that a gigantic "Click me!" ad on the www.cap.gov main page, plus a full-page article on the link's destination page with accompaning photo, both which are still on www.cap.gov, are more than enough to label this as "authorized"?! Not to mention the same news being given on www.af.mil.

Just went and took a look. Looks pretty sharp. I think it ought to replace the polo. Just require that be the only uniform when on working VSAF.

An option for embroidering your name would be nice, too.

[carnold1836]

That is a DARNED snazzy optional uniform if you ask me (which you didn't). I think this should be the non-uniform uniform instead of the polo shirt. At least to me it is some how more professional looking, not sure why. Maybe it is the button down front and collar.

[Hawk200]

That is a DARNED snazzy optional uniform if you ask me (which you didn't). I think this should be the non-uniform uniform instead of the polo shirt. At least to me it is some how more professional looking, not sure why. Maybe it is the button down front and collar.

Kinda what I was thinking. Nice to know I'm not alone.

[RogueLeader]

That is a DARNED snazzy optional uniform if you ask me (which you didn't). I think this should be the non-uniform uniform instead of the polo shirt. At least to me it is some how more professional looking, not sure why. Maybe it is the button down front and collar.

Kinda what I was thinking. Nice to know I'm not alone.

IMHO, a button down shirt is ALWAYS better looking- provided that they are taken care of. . . washing. . .ironing. . . etc. . . . . . . .

When is the Golf shirt going away again. . . . . . .

[BigMojo]

Just a personal opinion, but I hate short-sleeved button down shirts...always looks like "Hi, I'm a geek, and I'm here to help". For me, if it buttons all the way down, it should be long sleeved. Short sleeves are for t-shirts and "polo" shirts.

[Gunner C]

That is a DARNED snazzy optional uniform if you ask me (which you didn't). I think this should be the non-uniform uniform instead of the polo shirt. At least to me it is some how more professional looking, not sure why. Maybe it is the button down front and collar.

It doesn't sound like it is going to be an optional uniform.  Rather, it seems to be a :::required::: uniform for the VSAF program.  If so, I believe it will be the ONLY uniform required for an activity/program with the possible exception of IACE.

Snazzy?  I get nauseous when I think about another uniform along the same lines of the CAPPGA uniform. 

GC