CAP bus

[SSgt Rudin]

So tonight at our post squadron meeting, meeting over dinner, we some how got on the topic of "we need a bus." Aside from the logistical nightmare, lets say we some how got a bus donated to our squadron, got it painted a pretty white, put all the necessary stickers and stuff on it. Is it possible for Group, Wing, Region, NHQ to come in and "relocate" it?

[♠SARKID♠]

Call greyhound, see if they would be willing to donate a bus thats near decommissioning status.  Are you talking ES mobile command post?  Or recruiting station?

[jeders]

So tonight at our post squadron meeting, meeting over dinner, we some how got on the topic of "we need a bus." Aside from the logistical nightmare, lets say we some how got a bus donated to our squadron, got it painted a pretty white, put all the necessary stickers and stuff on it. Is it possible for Group, Wing, Region, NHQ to come in and "relocate" it?

Yes they can. The only way to prevent that is to have that bus donated to a third party and then that third party allows you exclusive rights to use it.

[SSgt Rudin]

Call greyhound, see if they would be willing to donate a bus thats near decommissioning status.  Are you talking ES mobile command post?  Or recruiting station?

More of a "we have 25 cadets that we need to move from point A to B," but if lets say it was a mobile command post with a bunch of seats, would that make a difference?

[SSgt Rudin]

So tonight at our post squadron meeting, meeting over dinner, we some how got on the topic of "we need a bus." Aside from the logistical nightmare, lets say we some how got a bus donated to our squadron, got it painted a pretty white, put all the necessary stickers and stuff on it. Is it possible for Group, Wing, Region, NHQ to come in and "relocate" it?

Yes they can. The only way to prevent that is to have that bus donated to a third party and then that third party allows you exclusive rights to use it.

Would the donator still get the same tax write off? Or better yet, do they get one in the first place? Also with this way what happens in regards to registration and associated fees?

[SJFedor]

The operators of the bus would probably need to hold a CDL (check w/ your state) if it can carry more then X amount of people. As well, I doubt CAP's auto insurance carrier would underwrite a bus, leaving the individual drivers to be insured on it. It makes me uneasy sometimes to just drive a 12 pax full of cadets, I can't imagine driving a bus.

Plus, maintenance and fuel would cost you out the wazoo.

[SarDragon]

d. Types of vehicles not permitted to be owned by CAP will be determined by NHQ. Vehicles not permitted to be owned by CAP include, but are not limited to:
1) Buses
2) Water trailers
3) Humvees
4) Deuce and half (2 1/2 ton vehicles or larger)
5) Boats
6) ATVs

[SSgt Rudin]

The operators of the bus would probably need to hold a CDL (check w/ your state) if it can carry more then X amount of people. As well, I doubt CAP's auto insurance carrier would underwrite a bus, leaving the individual drivers to be insured on it. It makes me uneasy sometimes to just drive a 12 pax full of cadets, I can't imagine driving a bus.

Plus, maintenance and fuel would cost you out the wazoo.

if you think about it you would use more gas if you had 30 cadets with gear to move by van, you would probably need 4 vans. However, we were thinking something like an old "Avis" type air port shuttle , not an all out school bus or the like, so thats only like 20 cadets + driver.

d. Types of vehicles not permitted to be owned by CAP will be determined by NHQ. Vehicles not permitted to be owned by CAP include, but are not limited to:
1) Buses
2) Water trailers
3) Humvees
4) Deuce and half (2 1/2 ton vehicles or larger)
5) Boats
6) ATVs

Well, darn. what about a big trailer with a bunch of seats in it? kidding...

[♠SARKID♠]

Like Rudin said, if you really really want one, have it owned by a non-profit or sister organization.  A few squadrons around here do that.  Theres one in the area that has a hovercraft owned by a non profit org.  Even our squadron's hangar is under Youth and Aviation.

[SSgt Rudin]

Like Rudin said, if you really really want one, have it owned by a non-profit or sister organization.  A few squadrons around here do that.  Theres one in the area that has a hovercraft owned by a non profit org.  Even our squadron's hangar is under Youth and Aviation.

Just remembered our squadron is also a boy scout troop. Don't ask, I don't know, I stopped listening after 10 minutes when they tried to explain it.

[♠SARKID♠]

^Yeah, thats that whole dual charter thing.  Not a big fan of the idea myself, even though I was a highly active Boy Scout for my whole life (Life rank, OA ordeal, SPL for god knows how long)

[/drift]

[Grumpy]

Several years ago we had a bus full of cadets involved in an accident up near Camarillo, CA.  I believe there was a fatality involved, not sure though, and CAP hasn't allowed us to use busses since.

[Grumpy]

Like Rudin said, if you really really want one, have it owned by a non-profit or sister organization.  A few squadrons around here do that.  Theres one in the area that has a hovercraft owned by a non profit org.  Even our squadron's hangar is under Youth and Aviation.

Just remembered our squadron is also a boy scout troop. Don't ask, I don't know, I stopped listening after 10 minutes when they tried to explain it.

Our squadron works like that.  It's part of the Scout's Venturing program.  For eleven bucks a year each cadet gets $25,000 in medical insurance, the adults are covered for liability and we get full use of scout camps and equipment.  It comes in handy when you've got some training coming up on the Marine Corps base and they cancel on you at the last minute due to a mobilization.

[Pylon]

The bus and other vehicles being prohibited is because CAP owned vehicles use CAP's vehicle insurance policy.  Vehicles like buses that can transport large numbers of passengers drive up the cost of insurance.

[Eclipse]

Like Rudin said, if you really really want one, have it owned by a non-profit or sister organization.  A few squadrons around here do that.  Theres one in the area that has a hovercraft owned by a non profit org.  Even our squadron's hangar is under Youth and Aviation.

Just remembered our squadron is also a boy scout troop. Don't ask, I don't know, I stopped listening after 10 minutes when they tried to explain it.

Dual-chartered CAP units require CAP be the "host" unit and all regulations apply to CAP and most to the "guest" BSA unit.

The best I can tell, the dual-charter concept is basically a way for CAP to get access to BSA facilities, while allowing for sharing meeting spaces,etc.

As to the bus, you'd be better off with two 12/15 packs, and if you really have a transport need that would justify a bus, could likely get 2 vans from NHQ.

[PHall]

Several years ago we had a bus full of cadets involved in an accident up near Camarillo, CA.  I believe there was a fatality involved, not sure though, and CAP hasn't allowed us to use busses since.

You remember wrong.

There were no fatalities. There were some serious injuries, one that resulted in a permanent disability.

It was an Air Force bus being driven by a licenced and "qualified" CAP member.

They had brake failure on a mountain road due to driver error (had never driven with air brakes before) and brake system failure due to lack of maintenance by the Air Force. (Per the CHP accident report.)

The driver actually did save everybodies life by driving into the side of the mountain causing the bus to roll over on it's side vs. going off the other side of the road over a 300 foot cliff.

CAP ended up paying out several million dollars for this accident.

And now you know why we can't have anything larger then a 15 pax van.

[Grumpy]

Thanks for setting me straight Phil,

Like I said, I wasn't sure if there were fatalities or not.  The result was the same, no more buses.

[mikeylikey]

So was the "qualified" CAP member also an Air Force guy?  For years, as far back as I can remember, AF buses were never allowed to be driven by anyone but AF personnel. 

I would imagine people lost their jobs over that.  I am glad to hear it was not a fatal accident.

I am just surprised to hear that is the reason CAP can't own buses.

[afgeo4]

I distinctly remember a 2.5 ton truck with CAP decals on the sides being in a photo of Hawk Mountain. Anyone care to share how that happened if regs state specifically that deuce and halfs aren't authorized?

Was that a member owned vehicle? Can the bus be that?

Also... why paint the bus white? White paint isn't a requirement for CAP vehicles. It just happens to be a popular color for fleet purchases (easy to resell).

Some CAP vans are blue and some are gray.

[afgeo4]

So was the "qualified" CAP member also an Air Force guy?  For years, as far back as I can remember, AF buses were never allowed to be driven by anyone but AF personnel. 

I would imagine people lost their jobs over that.  I am glad to hear it was not a fatal accident.

I am just surprised to hear that is the reason CAP can't own buses.

After a humvee accident a few years ago, the military placed restrictions on all military vehicles allowing only military authorized personnel to drive them.