NHQ Uniform Committee

[Hawk200]

Come to think of it, one more thing: Eliminate the "cutouts" on the field jacket epaulets. They're unnecessary. Just about anyone even somewhat familiar with Civil Air Patrol knows what "CAP" is. We don't need something on our uniform to tell them.

[jb512]

Come to think of it, one more thing: Eliminate the "cutouts" on the field jacket epaulets. They're unnecessary. Just about anyone even somewhat familiar with Civil Air Patrol knows what "CAP" is. We don't need something on our uniform to tell them.

Forgot about that.  It's not like we don't already have a big blaring "Civil Air Patrol" over the pocket in florescent blue.

[PHall]

Eliminate CAPM 39-1 and reissue it as the CAP Supplement  to AFI 36-2903.
This would make it much smaller and easier to keep current.

That's my 2 cents.

[mikeylikey]

Col:
1 the same blush silver name plate that is used on the corporate Dress uniform (CDU)  be  used on the AF uniform.

I HOPE NOT!  Anyone here work on getting the AF nameplate for the AF style uniform?  Why would we want to give that up?  Not only can we get it from various suppliers, it is a "pat on the back" from the AF.  

I think we will see most if not all of our AF style uniform features disapear to appease those who can not wear that uniform.  That is a shame.    

[jb512]

In keeping with your no pictures request, I put a copy of the ABU picture you had me do in the playpen:

http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=3549.msg67365#msg67365

It has your OD/white and the OD/blue (my choice).

[sandman]

In keeping with your no pictures request, I put a copy of the ABU picture you had me do in the playpen:

http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=3549.msg67365#msg67365

It has your OD/white and the OD/blue (my choice).

Nice work! Second row right would be my choice. Substitute the "overseas" unit patch for the Texas Wing patch and I think it would be a winner.

[Hawk200]

In keeping with your no pictures request, I put a copy of the ABU picture you had me do in the playpen:

http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=3549.msg67365#msg67365

It has your OD/white and the OD/blue (my choice).

I don't see OD tapes making the cut. It's an old style nametape in old style colors. I don't think the AF would have any problem with Navy (or even midnite) blue, but I don't think old school is gonna get approved.

Looking at the AF aspect, I doubt grey would be adopted either. At present, there are navy blue rank insignia available, and navy blue nametapes are readily available too. I doubt the AF is going to want new insignia produced when there are insignia currently available that are perfectly reasonable and suitable for the new uniform.

All in all, it's rather impractical to dream about new wowee-zowee stuff when there is perfectly practical stuff that we can use tomorrow if we wanted too.

[Phillip]

Respectfully submitted, here are my ideas:

Flightsuit Nametags
Ditch the Rank and CAP on the second line.  Just the currently approved badge(s) and name.

Black Leather A-2
Ask approval for wear with AF flight and service uniforms.  Also, specify if the Black A-2 may be worn with civilian clothing.  I am aware that the AF did not approve the wear of the Brown A-2.

AF Service Coat Nametag
Ask permission to wear it with AF Blue Pull Over Sweater as the Air Force does.

Corporate Service Uniform
Add optional pull over sweater, probably should be black to go with the black windbreaker, but otherwise identical to the AF blue pull over.

Specify that the white shirt be identical in appearance to the AF shirt, with the only difference being the color.  These shirts are already commercially available.

Remove all metal rank insignia and the blue epaulettes from the uniform, specify the same rank insignia as approved for the AF uniform.


"Virtual" Wear Test
Since a real wear test program isn't really a viable option for us, I propose that whenever a change to the uniform (any of the combos) is proposed, a person (or mannequin) is chosen to model the uniform item(s) in question for photos to be published on the national website.  Comments would then be taken for a specified time period (i.e. Yay, nay, optional vs. mandatory) before final approval is obtained.

----------------

Sample of proposed CAP NCO Chevrons if NHQ decides to expand and build the NCO Program. These would be worn on Service and Corporate coat and an ABU version could also be produced.

Very classy! 

[RiverAux]

"Virtual" Wear Test
Since a real wear test program isn't really a viable option for us, I propose that whenever a change to the uniform (any of the combos) is proposed, a person (or mannequin) is chosen to model the uniform item(s) in question for photos to be published on the national website.  Comments would then be taken for a specified time period (i.e. Yay, nay, optional vs. mandatory) before final approval is obtained.

It wasn't a "test", but they did do this for the TPU...

[O-Rex]

When CAP switches to ABU's, delay the phase-out of black boots until the late 2010's, if feasible:  there should be plenty to go around for years to come, and asking a parent to shell out over $200 bucks for their cadets to wear a fatigue-type uniform is a bit much (at $120, new green boots constitute over half of the uniform.)  It will also make the CAP ABU more distinctive, which will make USAF very happy.

Keep current CAP-U.S. Air Force Auxiliary command patch for green flightsuits, and the Corporate version for blue bags and utility uniform.

Like everyone else posted, try to find commonality for Corporate and AF-style dress uniforms, particularly with nameplates and insignia.

Finish off the Corp uniform with an Army-Black trenchcoat (there is currently no provision for an overcoat with this uniform.) That should pretty much do it for corp uniforms, with no more changes for years to come.

Eliminate the command service ribbon, to be replaced by former group/squadron CC's wearing the command insignia BELOW the nameplate, like USAF & USN does.   

Nametapes: navy or royal blue? all the same to me, but have Vanguard offer modern fabric nametapes that won't fade.

An optional CAP PT uniform (jacket & pants) styled similar to USAF's.

[CAPLAW]

Possibly look into hard grey colored shoulder boards like the mess dress boards for the AF service coat. Keep U.S cutouts.

Replace the grey slacks with grey bdu pants

phase in tan boots for bdus

place the command patch on the bdus and abus

keep tpu with no change

create an affordable blue windbreaker that cadets can wear or authorize green flight jacket with blues.

make bdu /abu the duty uniform like the AF

[capmaj]

First off, Sir......Kudos for taking this on.

I would like to suggest the following;

1. Eliminate the 'golf shirt' that has long been a sore subject. Replace it with a button front, button collared shirt in SS for summer and LS for winter. This shirt would be similar to the current non-duty shirt offered by Vanguard. It would be lettered on the left side with 'Civil Air Patrol' in a rainbow arc in white with the wearers last name only under the arc. Whether or not to add grade to the name could be discussed.

2. As the so-called 'TPU' closely resembles the USAF style, I would change the reg to allow it to be worn in compliance with the USAF height/weight standards, but would relax the current grooming standard restrictions to allow its wear by members who have a well-groomed beard or slightly longer mustache.

3. Change the current requirement of a black bow tie with corporate formal wear to the USAF blue bow tie. Black is really for the Army dress, not USAF's. Females are already wearing the blue floppy tie.

4. Review the 39-1 attachment to better reflect current grooming styles. Most men have not worn a mustache trimmed to the current standards in decades, preferring it a little bit longer. Short, trimmed beards are also somewhat in fashion these days.

Across the board I would like to see a trend toward the elimination of as many uniform items as possible. 

Thank you and 'GOOD LUCK'!

[lordmonar]

here is a crazy idea.........Lets take ONE YEAR OFF from making any uniform changes.  Even better.......lets just follow the AF uniform manual (COPY it, like drill and Ceremonies), and add specifics to it as needed!

I will be real disappointed to loose anything the AF has allowed us to do!  Like one poster said get rid of the "US" cutouts.  Excuse me?  Whats up with that?

When will the first round of suggestions be made to the board?

Hear! Hear!

For USAF style Uniforms I would follow 100% of USAF guidance with the addition of a distinctive CAP patch on the left shoulder. (something like the overseas wing patch).

How's that for savings?  NO MORE PATCHES on field uniforms.

We don't need distinctive grades (officer or NCO) if we have a distinctive patch on all uniform combinations.

[AlphaSigOU]

Not to forget:

A leather-backed CAP command patch for the black leather A-2 style jacket to match the A-2-style leather nameplate. Looks a LOT better than the small command patch.

If I remember correctly the RealAirForce® allows wear of the brown A-2 with civvies as long as any distinctive military patches are removed. (Yay velcro!)

[BillB]

Historically, CAP has always worn the same NCO stripes as USAAF and USAF except the 1942 NCO stripes which were Army style with a red background. These so resembled Marines stripes they were dropped and replaced by regular Army, later USAF style stripes. The CAP stripes have never been a problem for USAF so there is no need to redesign them. Since the number of NCOs in CAP will remain low, the added costs of a new design and the wide availability of USAF stripes negates any need to change.
The US on the USAF service coat was not the idea of CAP, rather ir came from USAF, so why the discussion? And any thoughts about the ABU are meaningless for CAP since there is little or no chance the uniform will be authorized for CAP in the immediate future, at least five years.
If you look at the majority of posts, the these seems to be reduce the number of corporate uniforms and also reduce the number of different style nametags. And it seems everyone thinks the silver braid on the TPU should be changed to grey.
Basically leave the USAF style uniuforms alone with minor changes, but rethink the corporate uniform styles and number.

[capchiro]

I would second the above idea regarding the gray slacks, however, I would say, keep the gray slacks with the golf shirt as well as have a gray BDU/cargo pockets pants and golf shirt option for field work, such as when working mission staff, training, etc.  Very comfortable and more durable than gray dress slacks, but still consistent.. As usual, JMHO.  By the way, Suzanne noted that we shoudl use the same rank throughtout uniform changes so we don't have to use cloth, plastic, metal, etc..

[O-Rex]

Not to forget:

A leather-backed CAP command patch for the black leather A-2 style jacket to match the A-2-style leather nameplate. Looks a LOT better than the small command patch.

If I remember correctly the RealAirForce® allows wear of the brown A-2 with civvies as long as any distinctive military patches are removed. (Yay velcro!)

The change to the brown on black leather nametag for the A-2 was approved last year.  Vanguard (and a few others) offers them.

Also, there are some nametag companies that will sew a MAJCOM patch to a leather backing, as they do for USAF (reg-hounds may debate if we can do this, but there is no mention in the policy letters.  I had it done: looks razor-sharp! Caveat: sew the appropriate-size velcro to accomodate the patches.

Back to uniforms: there have been some recent changes to the Air Force Regs, i.e., silver nameplate on the sweater, male flightcap optional for females, etc.  In the midst of sorting out our wide variety of uniforms, corporate or otherwise,  we also need to harmonize and keep up with the current USAF changes.

***NHQ should establish a PERMANENT uniform board that makes decisions under a system of checks & balances, i.e., the concurrence of the NB **and** the Bog (this includes *corporate* uniforms) any member, Nat'l CC or otherwise, should not have the authority to make arbitrary changes to the uniform, and cause the membership undue expenses (yes, I know Gen. Amy & Company are fixing, hence Lt Col White's current task, but history tends to repeat itself, mistakes nonwithstanding.)

[DogCollar]

I would humbly suggest a gradual phase in of the ABU.  If members have fully acceptable conditioned BDU's they shouldn't have to face the expense of replacement until condition of uniform requires.

I would also like to see a standard, weather resistent "mission" jacket that is modeled after LE "raid jackets."  It would have reflective lettering, and would be worn especially by members at incident scene.  Jackets could be modified to signify IC positions, et al...such as:
Incident Commander
Chaplain
CISM
GTM
etc...

[ddelaney103]

I've got a couple of pennies, so here goes...

If possible, similar uniforms should use identical accessories.  We should request the AF to allow white on navy nametapes for the BDU and full color grade on navy for the sage flightsuit.  If authorized, we can then make the change for the blue utility suit, BBDU and blue aramid flightsuit.  we can then use the same colors for the ABU.

Ditch CAP stripes - that would be a lot of money for retooling for little visual difference, even if the prop was red instead of blue.

State that full color stripes are to be used on the BDU/ABU.

Request the AF authorize metal grade on gray epaulets for the Service Dress jacket.  Use whatever the AF authorizes for the Service Dress or Service uniform as the choice for the TPU and white and grays.  We should have one choice for shirt epaulets and not make it dependent on what else you're wearing.

There should also only be one nametag for the Service Dress/TPU/sweater and one nametag for the shirt - one nametag for all would be better.

Braid should be the same for the "service dress-y" jackets - either AF blue for all or CAP gray for all, not blue or silver bullion depending on style.  Gray would be preferable and should also be on the Mess dress boards and sleeves.

The goal should always be "one team, one fight, one suit."

[mikeylikey]

Good luck getting people to rip off the AF blue braid from the Service jacket so they can sew gray on.  If Anyhting, RETOOL the new Corp. Uni.  to match AF standards.  Get a real good proposal pushed up to CAP-USAF.