Convicted felons

[Gunner C]

a service member can request court martial for ANY offense under the UCMJ.  The underlying charge dictates whether or not it is a felony level offense, not just the court of jurisdiction.

Nope....All UCMJ courts martial are federal jurisdictions....and the federal government only has felony charges.

I got a speeding ticket on Patrick AFB once (as a civilian), that had I contested it I would have had to go to a federal magistrate.  Instead I just paid it... Does that make me a felon?

Speeding at a level in which light is still visible from your vehicle is rarely a felony offense.

Those charges are adjudicated, as stated above, in the Federal court system, not in the military courts. It is not a felony trial - it's the same as being caught hunting on federal land.  You can be heard in front of a Federal magistrate or, if you desire a jury trial, you can be tried in Federal District Court.

While military courts are federal in nature, they are not the same, however they are of the same sovereign.  If you are convicted in a military court, you cannot be tried for the same crime in the federal system.  The state in which the crime occurs, however, can claim jurisdiction and a person can be tried by the state most always without regard to constitutional double jeopardy - two different sovereigns: state and federal. 

[Flying Pig]

Were they shooting at you?  Thats a sure give away.

[Al Sayre]

Nope, 34 in a 30...

[lordmonar]

Under Title 18 of the USC any crime where the possible sentence is over a year is classified as a felony.

Under the UCMJ if the court martial could possible impose a sentence over a year then that conviction is a felony even if the actual sentence was less then a year.

So convictions by Summary Courts Martial are NOT felonies....but all others are.....and of course Article 15 actions are not convictions of any kind.

[Gunner C]

Summary courts are rarely used.  It is for enlisted members only.  The defendant is tried by one commissioned officer, is not represented by an attorney, and if above E-4, cannot be confined for more than one month or hard labor to 45 days or restriction or two months, forfeiture of 2/3 of a month's pay.  E-1 to E-4 can get not more than one month's confinement and reduction to E-1. (had to look it up). Since the accused can't be represented, I've only seen one poor soul who was dumb enough to ask for it.  He got restriction and some lost pay.

Special court martial is tried by a judge and three members and may try officers and enlisted. This is the misdemeanor court for the military. Defendants may be represented. It can impose sentences of more than one year, short of death.  Can also impose forfeiture of pay for more than one year.

General court martial is the "felony court."  It can impose up to death if allowed by law. 

[lordmonar]

Gunner.

Both the general and special courts are felony courts.  ANY conviction that can result in punishment of over a year are classed as felonies....even if they hand down a lesser sentance.

[Spike]

^really?

Guess I need that refresher on military justice.  I never heard of it being described that way, nor seen it written that way.  I may be wrong, if so, please direct me to the documentation (if you want). 

[Eclipse]

Let me help (your Google must be down).

http://www.wisegeek.com/whats-the-difference-between-a-misdemeanor-and-a-felony.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Felony

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/felony

[lordmonar]

^really?

Guess I need that refresher on military justice.  I never heard of it being described that way, nor seen it written that way.  I may be wrong, if so, please direct me to the documentation (if you want).

Title 18...classification of offenses.
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/search/display.html?terms=felony&url=/uscode/html/uscode18/usc_sec_18_00003559----000-.html

UCMJ
http://www.au.af.mil/au/awc/awcgate/ucmj.htm

Art 20 limits the sentences of Summery Courts Martial so they are all considered misdemeanors as per Title 18...all other courts can punish "as a court-martial may direct" which would make them all felony convictions.

[Spike]

^really?

Guess I need that refresher on military justice.  I never heard of it being described that way, nor seen it written that way.  I may be wrong, if so, please direct me to the documentation (if you want).

Title 18...classification of offenses.
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/search/display.html?terms=felony&url=/uscode/html/uscode18/usc_sec_18_00003559----000-.html

UCMJ
http://www.au.af.mil/au/awc/awcgate/ucmj.htm

Art 20 limits the sentences of Summery Courts Martial so they are all considered misdemeanors as per Title 18...all other courts can punish "as a court-martial may direct" which would make them all felony convictions.

A search for the word "felony" doesn't bring anything up on my end in the UCMJ.  Article 18 relates to civilians and civilian courts.  A search for "military", or "UCMJ" brings up nothing.

The two are separate and not relative to each other.   

[lordmonar]

You can lead a horse to water....

[Spike]

You can lead a horse to water....

But if your horse is smarter....

[Stonewall]

I have a 55 year old retired cop (of 25 years) who works for me.  Prior to that he was an Army MP for 5 years.  Today, he is a security supervisor.

Just yesterday he was telling me about a friend that he worked with before he had joined the Army.  The two of them worked at a Kmart store here at the beach.  As young 18 or 19 year olds, they were foolish and stole several things from the store.  The manager found out and called them in.  His friend went in and was arrested for grand theft, a felony.  His life was ruined.

My co-worker knew what was going on and didn't go in.  For some reason nothing happened.  They never came knocking on his door and to this day he is thankful.  As I mentioned above, he went into the Army and later became a cop.

Just because people don't have a criminal record doesn't mean they're not guilty of something.  And just because someone does have a criminal record of sorts, does not mean they're satan's child.  Not everything is all or nothing; in my opinion anyway.  There's an 19 year old kid within one mile of my house who is a registered sex offender.  He was 18 and hooked up with a 16 year old.  How many people have done this that are in CAP?  Yet he got caught or the girl's parents filed charges or whatever.  I knew guys in the Army who were dating high schoolers.  Good thing they didn't tick off the wrong parents I guess.

[raivo]

Gunner.

Both the general and special courts are felony courts.  ANY conviction that can result in punishment of over a year are classed as felonies....even if they hand down a lesser sentance.

Special court-martials do have a maximum penalty length of 1 year, or so I've been told.

[Cecil DP]

Gunner.

Both the general and special courts are felony courts.  ANY conviction that can result in punishment of over a year are classed as felonies....even if they hand down a lesser sentance.

Special court-martials do have a maximum penalty length of 1 year, or so I've been told.

The worst explanations you can give is "Someone told me" or  "I heard ..."

[lordmonar]

Okay spike.

I did a little more reading and you are correct.  Special and Summary Courts Martial are misdemeanor convictions (Summary are limited to 45 days and Special are limited to 6 month sentences).

But any General Court Martial is automatically a felony convictions even if they hand down a 45 day sentence because they are not limited in what they could possible hand down.

[Spike]

Okay spike.

I did a little more reading and you are correct.  Special and Summary Courts Martial are misdemeanor convictions (Summary are limited to 45 days and Special are limited to 6 month sentences).

But any General Court Martial is automatically a felony convictions even if they hand down a 45 day sentence because they are not limited in what they could possible hand down.

I agree!  I did some reading this morning because this discussion got me thinking.  I has been skooled! 

Now back to Felony Convictions.....if you got one, you are a Felon.  That title is yours for the rest of your life.  Congratulations for getting caught breaking laws that most of us do not!  If you have not been caught yet, I urge you to stop being stupid, try to be a good citizen and teach your kids the same. 

So, my advice is; live your lives honestly and teach the next generation the same.  There is no such thing as an "accident", just stupidity and ignorance.  Think before you act, and be respectful to those around you.  We all make decisions, some just make decisions that are wrong, and must suffer consequences for them. 

 

[MSgt Van]

After browsing through the Manual for Courts-Martial, I found this tidbit in the UCMJ regarding those who fall under its jurisdiction:

4) Retired members of a regular component of the armed
forces who are entitled to pay.


Oh crap. I better straighten up and fly right.

[raivo]

The worst explanations you can give is "Someone told me" or  "I heard ..."

Yes, I'm not sure why I said that. That was according to my UCMJ lesson from OTS:

"Maximum punishment:

Upon enlisted members: bad conduct discharge, confinement for 1 year, hard labor without confinement for 3 months, restriction for 2 months, forfeiture of 2/3 pay per month for 1 year, reduction to AB, reprimand and a fine.

Upon officers: Forfeiture of 2/3 pay per month for 1 year, restriction for 2 months, reprimand and a fine."

[Gunner C]

Depends on the level of the court.

BTW, in most commands, the 1st general officer in the chain of command reserves the right to administer UCMJ to his officers.  IOW, if you screw up as an officer, you're gonna get blistered!