Old to new.

[Stitch]

Hi,
I was a cadet in the early 80's. I then did a stint as a 2LT/SM.
Well, as life moved on I caught my first sexually transmitted disease.

That STD has just entered the 6th grade and will be entering CAP in a couple of weeks. 

I am not going to join again but have been taking some time to show him basic D+C,  proper uniform wear and so on. When I was in, we had the OG107's. It seems to have changed quite a bit in the last 20 yrs so I have a few questions. I did spend a few hours here to see what I could find on my own but would like some confirmation please.

The cutouts were an oxidized pewter looking color but now appear to be chrome. Is this correct for now for BDU wear?  I wore the blue cloth more than the pin ons which seem no more for cadet enlisted. I also see they went to rank on both sides for BDU's.

T-Shirts were white, but now the options are black or Army brown?

I saw his LTC on open house before school started (school sqdn),  I asked him about boots. I told him I used to wear OD jungles and asked if they were still OK, he said " It doesn't matter."  It looks here like the norm is all black boots. Which is correct? He will be getting wet. We are in SW FL.

I ordered his patches so his uni's will be ready to go and have him working the kinks out now so boots are broken in and he feels comfortable with the whole setup before he has to do it for real.  I used the hock shop to order FL Wing patches and got the rest of the order with the patches back ordered. I wrote the guy for an estimated ship date but got no reply. I checked Vanguard but they don't seem to have them listed. Is there another source to get a few of these?

We have talked about this for a few years and he wants to do it and we are both excited for him. It is just getting down to crunch time and want to make sure everything is correct.
I would like to see him attend as many schools as he can and wants to do. Can someone from FL  let me know what ones would be available in state?

Thanks for your time.
 

[brasda91]

Footwear (CombatBoots)

Black, with or without safety toe, plain rounded toe or rounded capped
toe with or without perforated seam. Zipper or elastic inserts optional,
smooth or scotch-grained leather or man-made material, and may have a
high gloss or patent finish.

Green or black cloth, or canvas and black leather with plain toe with    
zipper or elastic inserts.    

[IceNine]

You are correct on the insignia the CAP cutouts are now high shine, Cadet will wear CAP cutout on Left side of collar and grade insignia on the right side (except C/AB wear cap cutouts on both collars.(

For BDU's they will wear insignia on both collars

We not longer wear the OD Gag Green uniforms, we wear woodland camo 4 Pocket BDU's

The boots question was answered quite well.

Shirts are ONLY to be Black or Brown NO WHITE is authorized (for BDU's)

V-Neck white shirts for Blues

For the patches talk with the unit supply officer often times units carry an assortment of things such as unit patches, flags, insignia etc.

[MIKE]

You are correct on the insignia the CAP cutouts are now high shine, Cadet will wear CAP cutout on Left side of collar and grade insignia on the right side (except C/AB wear cap cutouts on both collars.

Have you read the 10 July ICL... Mandatory wear date 1 March 08.

[IceNine]

I have, but if they're just starting might as well get them on track for the least amount of changes in the shortest time

[Eclipse]

Are Wing patches required in FLWG?  NHQ made them optional, and most states left them that way.

[Stonewall]

Unfortunately, yes, wing patches are mandatory for wear on BDUs in FL wing.   

[Stonewall]

I would like to see him attend as many schools as he can and wants to do. Can someone from FL  let me know what ones would be available in state?

Fellow Florida Winger here.  Activities and "schools" are announced annually sometime in winter for the following summer.

Here is the National HQ site that lists NCSAs (National Cadet Special Activities).
http://www.cap.gov/visitors/members/cadet_programs/index.cfm?nodeID=6521&audienceID=4

PS:  Where were you a cadet?

[Stitch]

Thanks for all the info so far.
Why the dislike for wing patches?

I was a cadet in Mass.
When I started it was called 1st Air Search and Rescue. While in it changed to Mt Wachusett Comp SQDN.
I did look it up recently and it appears to be an all S/M unit now.

National is the only place for school (what do you call them?) Any lists of what are held within the state?

Thanks again

[Stonewall]

I'm just not a fan of patches.  Badges, yes, patches no.  Think it adds to the clutter of our already colorful uniform.  Not saying we need to go subdued or anything, I just don't think we need to look like christmas trees.

Check the national website for the National Cadet Special Activities (NCSA), some of which are actually "training courses".

Some may be offered in Florida.  And of course, there's always the first requirement for all cadets, that is encampment.

[SJFedor]

When Capt Floyd gets on here, he can tell you some about what FLWG does as far as state activities. He's pretty heavy into the FLWG "Ranger School" modeled after HMRS, but sounds like it focuses more on the types of SAR you guys do down there, instead of what works in the mountains of PA.

[Cecil DP]

The next available encampment would be the SER Winter Encampment, which is normally held during Christmas week. 12/26-1/2. Site has not been announced yet, but I heard that it was between Camp Blanding (near Jacksonville) and Ft Benning. There are several other sites possible but these are the two main ones.

[brasda91]

except C/AB wear cap cutouts on both collars.

Hmmm.....hadn't thought about this.  So the cadets have to order the CAP cut-outs, only to wear them for a month or two?  What if you just left the collar clean?  Is it stated somewhere where the C/AB wear the CAP cut-outs on both collars? 

[IceNine]

I think they come in packages of 2 anyway.

AND, the pins on those are notorious for breaking its never a bad idea to have a backup.  Especially considering the will be wearing them for the next 2-4 years or longer depending on when they make mitchell

[PHall]

except C/AB wear cap cutouts on both collars.

Hmmm.....hadn't thought about this.  So the cadets have to order the CAP cut-outs, only to wear them for a month or two?  What if you just left the collar clean?  Is it stated somewhere where the C/AB wear the CAP cut-outs on both collars? 

You can do what we do in my Squadron. The cadet gets two CAP cutouts when they get their uniform. When they promote they trade in their cutouts for their new grade insignia. If they want to keep their old insignia they can buy it from the squadron.

[floridacyclist]

We have new cadets coming in starting in October with an induction night and another in January.  The October wave is scheduled for Winter Encampment, which as mentioned is after Christmas although I heard Tyndall AFB or Ft Benning; such is how rumor control works. the january Wave will be expected to attend Summer Encampment at Blanding.

Our cadets who finish Cadet Basic Training will be expected to attend Winter Encampment; immediately after that is National Cadet Special Activities Selection Board, usually at Patrick AFB. We encourage the older cadets to go there if for no other reason than to meet other cadets and participate in a little friendly competition; some of ours have actually placed quite highly against other the rest of the FL Wing cadets. The younger cadets who will be at least 13 are being encouraged to attend Hawk Mountain (www.pawingcap.com/hawk ) as we have found that to be excellent leadership and ES training, plus most other activities have higher age limits.

I don't know about how heavy I am into the ranger program, we just have some cadets who wanted to work on achievements for Hawk Mountain and we've done some weekend training to help them along and explore some other areas of interest (wilderness survival, NASAR certification etc) that lie beyond the basic minimum standards caleld for by CAP. When it comes down to it, I just like to try to keep our cadets busy and excited and am willing to use most any tool possible to do it within reason.

I think you're right on attending the different schools and activities; life within the squadron can be pretty boring. Getting out and about not only increases your exposure to other aspects of CAP, but gives you a much greater sense of belonging to something big.

[brasda91]

Especially considering the will be wearing them for the next 2-4 years or longer depending on when they make mitchell.

No they won't.  They will be wearing grade insignia on both collars.  So where does it say that C/AB need CAP cutouts on both collars.  I know this was the case in years past, but with the requirement to wear grade on both collars, I think National has left out the specification on C/AB collar insignia.

[IceNine]

YES they will they wear a cutout on the blues as mentioned earlier in this
thread

Especially considering the will be wearing them for the next 2-4 years or longer depending on when they make mitchell.

So where does it say that C/AB need CAP cutouts on both collars.  I know this was the case in years past, but with the requirement to wear grade on both collars, I think National has left out the specification on C/AB collar insignia.

Probably somewhere in 39-1 go ahead and get the cite for that...things like I think don't work here

[brasda91]

YES they will they wear a cutout on the blues as mentioned earlier in this
thread

Especially considering the will be wearing them for the next 2-4 years or longer depending on when they make mitchell.

So where does it say that C/AB need CAP cutouts on both collars.  I know this was the case in years past, but with the requirement to wear grade on both collars, I think National has left out the specification on C/AB collar insignia.

Probably somewhere in 39-1 go ahead and get the cite for that...things like I think don't work here

My refrence to "I think" was regarding an issue that is not covered in the regs.  Per the 10 Jul 2007 memo:

c. Cadet Enlisted Grade Insignia on AF-style shirt and service coat. Cadet
enlisted members are now authorized to wear grade insignia on both collars or lapels.
The CAP cutout is no longer worn. Mandatory wear date for this change is 1 March
2008.

They can continue to wear the cutout, but if you have new cadets coming into the unit, why have them spend the money on item they will not be wearing?

[IceNine]

Never seen that.  Thank you

[brasda91]

Never seen that.  Thank you

Your welcome.    Now what do you think?  I feel like this is a great topic.  I have 4 new cadets that are working on their Curry with a promotion date of 6 Nov.  Should they be wearing cutouts on both collars until they are promoted to C/Amn or nothing on the collars?  If we as group, cannot find a reg specifing, I will call National on Tuesday.

[IceNine]

Personally, I think they should wear the cutouts. 

So if you have them let them wear them BUT don't buy anymore.  So as the ones you have get worn out and break don't replace them

[brasda91]

Personally, I think they should wear the cutouts. 

I think I agree.  Here's an idea.  Ask your C/Amn and up, who no longer wear the cutouts, to donate them to the unit supply.  When you have a new cadet join, temporarily issue them the cutouts.  When they are promoted to C/Amn, they return the cutouts for the next new cadet to use.

[MIKE]

Never seen that.  Thank you

You replied that you had a few posts up. 

Also it says cutout, not cutouts... so one could infer that it applies to those who wore a cutout and grade insignia... but hey, I didn't write the [darn] thing... so there you go.

[Al Sayre]

They still need them for the BDU's until they get their Curry...

[brasda91]

They still need them for the BDU's until they get their Curry...

I agree, along with Blues.  I guess if you look at it from the standpoint of they are not considered "enlisted" until they reach Curry, then cutouts on both collars would be appropiate.  Hey, I think we've discussed this enough to find the answer!

[Stitch]

Hi,
We went to the open house and he is "in" and is very excited.

They do it a bit different than we did so I guess he does not need the cutouts until he gets the blues. They way they do it, Airman basic does not wear a uniform. They will have an overniter they call a "bootcamp" in early OCT. During this time, he will get his curry and after that can wear his uniform.

I also have a question for anyone familiar with FL school units. I would like him to have a leatherman type tool. I guess cadets can still carry an AF type survival knife on their SAR kit. Does this change when the unit is stationed on school property?
Now even if it does, is there some type of exeption  being CAP or since TOS is held after school hours?

I know they have no guns/weapons on school property, but you can have it picking them up or dropping them off, so there are some variations to it, I just dont know what they are.

Thanks for your time.

[JayT]

I don't think theres any need for most cadets to ever have an AF survival knife or KBar in there kit.

[MIKE]

They do it a bit different than we did so I guess he does not need the cutouts until he gets the blues. They way they do it, Airman basic does not wear a uniform. They will have an overniter they call a "bootcamp" in early OCT. During this time, he will get his curry and after that can wear his uniform.

  That's funny because cadets have to demonstrate proper wear of the CAP uniform to complete Achievement 1.  Regulationsmegulations. 

[Stitch]

I can agree with not wanting them to have a big K-Bar, but the small knife when on SAR or a SAREX doesn't bother me if the kid is squared away. If he was a nut, I wouldn't want him to have a toothpick. 

I don't know what to say about the uniform thing. It disappointed him and I feel for him, but they make the rules not me.

In other news, they were trying to get seniors in as well as they are real short. My better half has decided to join up. I think it would be good for her. The boy is kool with it and understands she is not going to hold his hand or watch over him either.
They are to keep work and home separate. If they form into groups, she will try to get one he is not in. I don't think part of the growing experience should have mommy holding his hand.

If you would please share some thoughts on this. Anyone here have kids in with them, or have family teams in the unit where you have some input on what not to do?

The only thing I have was as a Cadet. My bud's dad was a CAPT and pilot. He was always scared of his dad getting on him if he had any kid type fun with the rest of us.

[Major Carrales]

except C/AB wear cap cutouts on both collars.

Hmmm.....hadn't thought about this.  So the cadets have to order the CAP cut-outs, only to wear them for a month or two?  What if you just left the collar clean?  Is it stated somewhere where the C/AB wear the CAP cut-outs on both collars? 

You can do what we do in my Squadron. The cadet gets two CAP cutouts when they get their uniform. When they promote they trade in their cutouts for their new grade insignia. If they want to keep their old insignia they can buy it from the squadron.

That, too, is our policy.

[MIKE]

In other news, they were trying to get seniors in as well as they are real short. My better half has decided to join up. I think it would be good for her. The boy is kool with it and understands she is not going to hold his hand or watch over him either.
They are to keep work and home separate. If they form into groups, she will try to get one he is not in. I don't think part of the growing experience should have mommy holding his hand.

If you would please share some thoughts on this. Anyone here have kids in with them, or have family teams in the unit where you have some input on what not to do?

The only thing I have was as a Cadet. My bud's dad was a CAPT and pilot. He was always scared of his dad getting on him if he had any kid type fun with the rest of us.

Rather than drift off topic: http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=2704.0

[Lancer]

Not wanting to pick nits here, but I think there should be some clarification on the topic of collar insignia.

Now that the most recent uniform change letter is out, and references a change submitted at the March 2007 NB meeting (which are no longer marked DRAFT btw), I notice a discrepancy in what is being stated here.

Per the March 07 Minutes:

(k) Cadet NCO Grades
RECOMMENDATION: Approve proposal to authorize the wear of grade insignia on
both collars of the light blue AF-style shirt and lapels of service coat, Cadet NCOs
currently wear grade on both collars of BDUs.

ACTION: COL CHITWOOD/SWR MOVED AND COL NELSON/CA SECONDED
that the National Board approves the recommendation of the Uniform Board
with a suggested mandatory wear date of 1 March 2008.

Per the Uniform Change Letter.

c. Cadet Enlisted Grade Insignia on AF-style shirt and service coat. Cadet
enlisted members are now authorized to wear grade insignia on both collars or lapels.
The CAP cutout is no longer worn. Mandatory wear date for this change is 1 March
2008

Now, from the NB minutes I read that to state Cadet NCO's who have been wearing grade insignia on both collars of the BDU's are now permitted to wear grade insignia on both collars of the blues shirt and service coat.

Then out pops the change letter stating cadet enlisted grades shall wear insignia on both collars of their blues or BDU's.

I know it might seem petty to bring this up, but did someone say 'Well, if that's the case, let's just let all enlisted grade cadets wear grade insignia on both collars', and we just missed that part?

Thoughts?

[MIKE]

It is because NHQ is consistently inconsistant...

1-3. Definition of Terms:
a. Officer: As used in this publication, includes senior member grades flight officer through major
general and cadet grades second lieutenant through colonel.
b. Airman: Unless otherwise specified, includes all other uniformed members both senior and
cadet.

[brasda91]

I know it might seem petty to bring this up, but did someone say 'Well, if that's the case, let's just let all enlisted grade cadets wear grade insignia on both collars', and we just missed that part?

Thoughts?

I called National myself and all cadets wear the grade on both collars.

[Stitch]

Rather than drift off topic: http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=2704.0

Thanks for the link.  I think every thread I have read in here goes off topic 

I was thinking that keeping all my issues in one thread would make it easier on the folks here, instead of me making multiple "New guy" threads and annoying more than needed.
Thanks again.

[MIKE]

Actually... I think we'd prefer multiple new guy threads in the appropriate area.

[Stitch]

You got it.
I just wanted to let you know what I was thinking when I did it.
There seem to be some parent unfriendly people here and I did not want to annoy them, so I was trying to tread lightly. 

Thanks again.

[MIKE]

There seem to be some parent unfriendly people here and I did not want to annoy them, so I was trying to tread lightly. 

I am one of them unfourtunately... Based on past experiences.

[Stitch]

There seem to be some parent unfriendly people here and I did not want to annoy them, so I was trying to tread lightly. 

I am one of them unfourtunately... Based on past experiences.

Well due to my current employment I am unable to become a full member again.
I could become a sponser member, but I read here they are "useless" so I guess that wont help either.

Any advise on remaining here to learn what has changed in the last 20 something years or keep up to date to help my two newbs out or should I just hit the road?

[MIKE]

Didn't mean for that comment to scare you off... Of course you are welcome to stick around.

[Stitch]

Didn't mean for that comment to scare you off... Of course you are welcome to stick around.

Ok, thanks.
I apologize if I was reading it wrong.
I see Stow in your sig line. We stomped some of the same AO.

*ETA:
Maybe I should have said Read into it wrong.

[MIKE]

Unit is actualy in Marlboro now, but I was with the unit when it was in Stow.