Proposal 3: Uniform Issues

[capchiro]

Maybe rightly so, The golf shirt combo is the probably the most comfortable for a lot of our flying and certainly doesn't look as wrinkled as a sweatly, wrinkled white shirt after 2-3 hours of flying in the southern sun..

[ColonelJack]

[Gee, if corporates are picked, I- and those like me- will leave.  If USAF are chosen, people like Lt.Col. Bagley will leave.  Who are you willing to lose?

Gee, I'm not exactly sure I would like to hear the answer to that question!   

I have a set of AF blues and am working diligently to be able to wear them.  But until I can, I have the corporate uniform.

Sparky's got the single best idea yet -- with all respect to Kach, who as National CC would do something just a little different but quite inspired.

One AF set, one Corporate set, make your choice and live with it.

Why not?

Jack

[Trung Si Ma]

Maybe rightly so, The golf shirt combo is the probably the most comfortable for a lot of our flying and certainly doesn't look as wrinkled as a sweaty, wrinkled white shirt after 2-3 hours of flying in the southern sun..

If you take my golf shirt away, can I at least have it as an approved casual (off duty) shirt for the times that the uniform may not be appropriate - like senior attitude adjustment periods?

I also agree with it as a fine summer flight option here int he desert SW.

[RiverAux]

FYI, the Ultimate uniform poll indicated 53% of CAPTALK members like the current mix of AF and corporate uniforms.   No other option (AF only, Corp only, AF only with weight standards, etc.) even came close. 

http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=1385.0

[Major Carrales]

FYI, the Ultimate uniform poll indicated 53% of CAPTALK members like the current mix of AF and corporate uniforms.   No other option (AF only, Corp only, AF only with weight standards, etc.) even came close. 

http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=1385.0

Current situation (AF-style, CAP, "civilian" uniforms
AF-style only, but with no specific height/weight requirements (like CG Aux)
AF-style only but with height/weight requirements
CAP uniforms (Blue flight suits, BBDUs, etc.) only
"Civilian uniforms" (gray slacks/golf shirts, etc.).
No uniform at all.  Wear whatever you want.

That poll does not have my "option" on it now does it?  My option would have been... "1 USAF Style and 1 CAP Style."

[ddelaney103]

Some corrections:

USAF STYLE                                    CAP DISTINCTIVE

MESS DRESS                                                   Standard Black TUX w/ CAP Regalia and Minimedals
FORMAL SERVICE DRESS                                  CAP SERVICE DRESS Corporate Service Coat (USAF Style grey epaulets)
SEMI-FORMAL  long sleeve SERVICE DRESS        White Shirt, CAP Should Marks, blue pants, Blue Tie
Minimum Basic short sleeve SERVICE DRESS       Short Sleeve White Shirt, blue pants
Field Uniform dress(BDU, ACU)                          Blue BDUs
USAF Flight SUIT Dress Uniform                         CAP Flight Suit

That being done, it's not a bad idea - except you don't answer the F&F question: what do they do if they can wear neither AF nor Corp threads?

[Major Carrales]

Some corrections:

USAF STYLE                                    CAP DISTINCTIVE

MESS DRESS                                                   Standard Black TUX w/ CAP Regalia and Minimedals
FORMAL SERVICE DRESS                                  CAP SERVICE DRESS Corporate Service Coat (USAF Style grey epaulets)
SEMI-FORMAL  long sleeve SERVICE DRESS        White Shirt, CAP Should Marks, blue pants, Blue Tie
Minimum Basic short sleeve SERVICE DRESS       Short Sleeve White Shirt, blue pants
Field Uniform dress(BDU, ACU)                          Blue BDUs
USAF Flight SUIT Dress Uniform                         CAP Flight Suit

That being done, it's not a bad idea - except you don't answer the F&F question: what do they do if they can wear neither AF nor Corp threads?

I did, a while back...

The idea of CAP DISTINCTIVE should allow for ONE alternative, not a slew of them.  Thus, the CAP DISTINCTIVE should be able to be worn by all.  That is a failing of the current "corporate dress," its exclusive nature makes it a bit...well, moot at best...pointless at worst.

CAP DISTINCTIVE should be worn by all, F&F as well.

[LtCol White]

The senior-squadron-polo-shirt-wearing-flying-club-types will positively have a conniption fit if their beloved polo shirt combination ceases to be a valid uniform.

So be it

[SARMedTech]

Some corrections:

USAF STYLE                                    CAP DISTINCTIVE

MESS DRESS                                                   Standard Black TUX w/ CAP Regalia and Minimedals
FORMAL SERVICE DRESS                                  CAP SERVICE DRESS Corporate Service Coat (USAF Style grey epaulets)
SEMI-FORMAL  long sleeve SERVICE DRESS        White Shirt, CAP Should Marks, blue pants, Blue Tie
Minimum Basic short sleeve SERVICE DRESS       Short Sleeve White Shirt, blue pants
Field Uniform dress(BDU, ACU)                          Blue BDUs
USAF Flight SUIT Dress Uniform                         CAP Flight Suit

That being done, it's not a bad idea - except you don't answer the F&F question: what do they do if they can wear neither AF nor Corp threads?

I did, a while back...

The idea of CAP DISTINCTIVE should allow for ONE alternative, not a slew of them.  Thus, the CAP DISTINCTIVE should be able to be worn by all.  That is a failing of the current "corporate dress," its exclusive nature makes it a bit...well, moot at best...pointless at worst.

CAP DISTINCTIVE should be worn by all, F&F as well.

So Major, here are you saying that the corporate "mess dress" would be a "civilian" tux?  Wouldnt the "TPU" work with black tie or would that be a no-no.  The only reason I say this is that I thought mixed civilian with corporate items was not allowed

[Major Carrales]

So Major, here are you saying that the corporate "mess dress" would be a "civilian" tux?  Wouldnt the "TPU" work with black tie or would that be a no-no.  The only reason I say this is that I thought mixed civilian with corporate items was not allowed

Good point, however the USAF style in CAP forbids the "bow tie" combination for CAP Officers...I merely drew that line across.

The TUX was the least complicated idea I could think of.

It would be the plain black type.  One would use the high gloss Oxfords of the Service Dress.  The undershirt would be of the "plain collar" type (not the "little points")  The Bow tie, however, and cumberbund would be the MESS DRESS type.  One would wear their medals on their lapels and the CAP seal on the same side as the ribbons (opposite of USAF style MESS DRESS wear)

Such a TUX is easily rented and would serve even as an alternate to the MESS DRESS for folks that have not purchased mess dress.

The attached "poor" photoshop job demonstrates what I mean.

[Hawk200]

So Major, here are you saying that the corporate "mess dress" would be a "civilian" tux?  Wouldnt the "TPU" work with black tie or would that be a no-no.  The only reason I say this is that I thought mixed civilian with corporate items was not allowed

Good point, however the USAF style in CAP forbids the "bow tie" combination for CAP Officers...I merely drew that line across.

I wouldn't have a problem with the TPU worn with a bow tie. That uniform is definitely more expensive than AF service dress, whoever bought it deserves a break.

[ddelaney103]

So Major, here are you saying that the corporate "mess dress" would be a "civilian" tux?  Wouldnt the "TPU" work with black tie or would that be a no-no.  The only reason I say this is that I thought mixed civilian with corporate items was not allowed

Why not?  AFI 36-2903 says I can wear my miniature medals with civilian formalwear.

Further, the VA wants me to wear my ribbons or medals on holidays:

http://www1.va.gov/opa/veteranspride/index.asp

[ddelaney103]

So Major, here are you saying that the corporate "mess dress" would be a "civilian" tux?  Wouldnt the "TPU" work with black tie or would that be a no-no.  The only reason I say this is that I thought mixed civilian with corporate items was not allowed

Good point, however the USAF style in CAP forbids the "bow tie" combination for CAP Officers...I merely drew that line across.

The TUX was the least complicated idea I could think of.

It would be the plain black type.  One would use the high gloss Oxfords of the Service Dress.  The undershirt would be of the "plain collar" type (not the "little points")  The Bow tie, however, and cumberbund would be the MESS DRESS type.  One would wear their medals on their lapels and the CAP seal on the same side as the ribbons (opposite of USAF style MESS DRESS wear)

Such a TUX is easily rented and would serve even as an alternate to the MESS DRESS for folks that have not purchased mess dress.

The attached "poor" photoshop job demonstrates what I mean.

Don't wear them on the lapel.  First, that's Army style - the AF wears them on the chest.  Second, people would have to find tuxedos with lapels large enough for the medals.

I could see a semi formal TPU with bow tie, miniature medals and no nametag.

[Major Carrales]

So Major, here are you saying that the corporate "mess dress" would be a "civilian" tux?  Wouldnt the "TPU" work with black tie or would that be a no-no.  The only reason I say this is that I thought mixed civilian with corporate items was not allowed

Good point, however the USAF style in CAP forbids the "bow tie" combination for CAP Officers...I merely drew that line across.

The TUX was the least complicated idea I could think of.

It would be the plain black type.  One would use the high gloss Oxfords of the Service Dress.  The undershirt would be of the "plain collar" type (not the "little points")  The Bow tie, however, and cumberbund would be the MESS DRESS type.  One would wear their medals on their lapels and the CAP seal on the same side as the ribbons (opposite of USAF style MESS DRESS wear)

Such a TUX is easily rented and would serve even as an alternate to the MESS DRESS for folks that have not purchased mess dress.

The attached "poor" photoshop job demonstrates what I mean.

Don't wear them on the lapel.  First, that's Army style - the AF wears them on the chest.  Second, people would have to find tuxedos with lapels large enough for the medals.

I could see a semi formal TPU with bow tie, miniature medals and no nametag.

Hummm...I thought the TUX option would be preferable to the "TPU."  We can move them to the chest of the TUX.  Minimedals have always seemed to me to look "off" on a service coat. 

[ColonelJack]

So, Sparky, would the non-AF "mess dress" (Tux uniform) be acceptable if I wore a Prince Charlie jacket with my kilt?  Medals, etc., pin on that just nice.  Take a look.

Jack

[attachment deleted by admin]

[lordmonar]

[Gee, if corporates are picked, I- and those like me- will leave.  If USAF are chosen, people like Lt.Col. Bagley will leave.  Who are you willing to lose?

Gee, I'm not exactly sure I would like to hear the answer to that question!   

I have a set of AF blues and am working diligently to be able to wear them.  But until I can, I have the corporate uniform.

Sparky's got the single best idea yet -- with all respect to Kach, who as National CC would do something just a little different but quite inspired.

One AF set, one Corporate set, make your choice and live with it.

Why not?

Jack

The only problem I have with the AF/Corp dichotomy is that it is not "uniform"

My first choice would be to go all USAF.  But that may get Mother Blue all in a tizzy.

So my second choice would be all corporates.

This gets us all in one set of uniforms.

As for people quiting because we don't wear USAF blue....well there you go.  I have to question your motivation and dedication to anything CAP stands for.

I personally would serve CAP if we all just wore civilian cloths can called each other by our first names.  I joined CAP to serve my community not to look all spiffy.

Having said that....I like to look spiffy....but I'll continue to serve even if I have to look just like everyone else.

[Eeyore]

That will really separate us from the cadets though. I like to work with cadets and prefer to set an example for them with the correct uniform.

I can see going to all corporate when working with the senior side. But when you work with cadets it is helpful to follow the same standards that they do; uniforms, customs, etc.. I know that there are some that don't go with the AF style when they are working with cadets but it is better for some to than none.

[RiverAux]

And anyone who thinks the cadets will stay if we drop the military uniforms is living in a dream world. 

[ddelaney103]

So, Sparky, would the non-AF "mess dress" (Tux uniform) be acceptable if I wore a Prince Charlie jacket with my kilt?  Medals, etc., pin on that just nice.  Take a look.

Jack

Nice, but I don't want to drop $300+ on a CAP tartan, 'cause you know the Rangers wouldn't rest until it had blaze orange stripes in it.

I have worn my mini's on Scottish formal wear and wore my full size medals last Memorial Day.  I ended up directing traffic in my kilt and shirt after a Beltway accident.

Still haven't gotten my Silver Medal, though.

[ColonelJack]

Nice, but I don't want to drop $300+ on a CAP tartan, 'cause you know the Rangers wouldn't rest until it had blaze orange stripes in it.
I have worn my mini's on Scottish formal wear and wore my full size medals last Memorial Day.  I ended up directing traffic in my kilt and shirt after a Beltway accident.
Still haven't gotten my Silver Medal, though.

Blaze orange on a kilt?  EEEWWWWWWW......

Wish we could all get a SMV for directing traffic.

(By the way ... anyone can get the kilt and Prince Charlie as I wear in the photo.  The beautiful woman you have to provide for yourself.)

Jack