Couple of questions

[JayT]

Why do people in CAP, on CAPTalk, and on CS still call a hat a 'cover?' How did that Navyism become part of the CAP lingo?

Dido with the 'BDU Blouse.'

Why do so many CAP Officers want our uniforms to look more like the regular Air Force? I can't believe how many people I've seen on here wanting boonie caps and subdued tapes.

[MIKE]

Main Entry: 1blouse
Pronunciation: 'blaus also 'blauz
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural blous·es  /'blau-s&z, -z&z/
Etymology: French
1 a : a long loose overgarment that resembles a shirt or smock and is worn especially by workmen, artists, and peasants b : the jacket of a uniform
2 : a usually loose-fitting garment especially for women that covers the body from the neck to the waist

[JayT]

But what does our parent service call it?

[Major Carrales]

But what does our parent service call it?

I don't know what the Office of Civilian Defense and/or the U.S . Army Air Corps called it.

[O-Rex]

Many years ago, 'blouse,' 'cover' and 'trousers' were part of a common military lexicon.  Naval service kept it, Army/AF didn't.

For BDU's, I've heard shirt, and top, but the nomenclature on the tag is "Coat, Combat, Camouflage."

Hats: hat or headgear (Armyism) I always thought that a CAP member wearing a cap was kind of "who's on first" awkward.

Why do so many CAP Officers want our uniforms to look more like the regular Air Force? 

Some do, some don't: there is a polarization among our membership on that subject, and there have been many empassioned threads about it, if you look through them.

After awhile, CAP costumes become like baseball cards, "collect 'em all, and trade with your friends."

[SARMedTech]

Why do people in CAP, on CAPTalk, and on CS still call a hat a 'cover?' How did that Navyism become part of the CAP lingo?

Dido with the 'BDU Blouse.'

Why do so many CAP Officers want our uniforms to look more like the regular Air Force? I can't believe how many people I've seen on here wanting boonie caps and subdued tapes.

Probably for the same reason that the AF wants us identified with them unless we are "naughty" or they are expressing general disdain for members required to wear "fat suits." From the conversations Ive heard so far, the general confusion can be traced to the AF not being able to quite make up its mind as to what it wants CAP to be. As for the desire for boonies, they are practical and provide sun cover, same reason that AD folks wear them in the field. As for the subdued tapes, would you wear the ultramarines if you were given an option? Again, while weight and grooming will always be an issue, the USCG doesnt seem to have suffered from having only miniscule differences between the Gold and Silver sides. Of course, CAP could be seen just as much to blame. We want to be a private corporation when it suits us, and part of Team AF when it suits us. Perhaps its time for a bit of a cultural shift.

[Sgt. Savage]

Why do people in CAP, on CAPTalk, and on CS still call a hat a 'cover?' How did that Navyism become part of the CAP lingo?

It covers your head

Dido with the 'BDU Blouse.'

It's sure not a pair of pants

Why do so many CAP Officers want our uniforms to look more like the regular Air Force? I can't believe how many people I've seen on here wanting boonie caps and subdued tapes.

Ulramarine looks dumb on BDU's, which is why I advocate the switch to BBDU's. We're either the AFAUX or not. No reason to make us look like clowns by wearing bright blue on an otherwise drab uniform. As for boonies.... whatever, it's just a [darn] "hat". Why not wear it if it's functional?

[JayT]

No, I would not wear subuded tapes if I had the option of, becaues I wear the Corporate uniforms. To be nineteen years old in a clear military uniform is unpleasant for me (see my CS post about why I don't wear military style uniforms anymore.)

We're not the USAFAux except under certain circumstances, despite the fact we still tell new members thats what we are.

[Ford73Diesel]

No, I would not wear subuded tapes if I had the option of, becaues I wear the Corporate uniforms. To be nineteen years old in a clear military uniform is unpleasant for me (see my CS post about why I don't wear military style uniforms anymore.)

We're not the USAFAux except under certain circumstances, despite the fact we still tell new members thats what we are.

I've read your post awhile ago (I don't remember it completely), and thought your reasoning was poor.

1. The AF lets cadets who meet weight and height standards wear their uniform, heck they give you the first s/s service dress free, so they don't care.*

2. If someone thinks your in the military, just correct them and let them know what CAP is all about It their fault for mistaking it. The reaction I get in "CAP still exists?!?"

3. I'm pretty sure a military person would rather see you wearing an AF style correctly than some pseudo-uniform thats not military at all. There obviously may be some exceptions.

and

4. I wouldn't want to wear corporates because I would have to buy them. I can get USAF style from my squadron supply.

It's a personal choice and I don't care what you wear. For me, I'll wear what the cadets around me are wearing (USAF style). Does it make me a wannabe? No, although I have seen my share.

It sounds like your trying too hard to pull the "I'm not a wannabe" look off. Whatever floats your boat. Don't take it as a personal attack, it just the vibe I got from reading your posts.



*Forgot to add: Cadets over 18 must meet weight/ height requirments

[Eclipse]

1. The AF lets cadets who meet weight and height standards wear their uniform, heck they give you the first s/s service dress free, so they don't care.

For clarity, under 18 there are no height/weight restrictions on cadets.

2. If someone thinks your in the military, just correct them and let them know what CAP is all about It their fault for mistaking it. 

Please don't just say thanks and move on...

[Stonewall]

In the Army I always called it a blouse as did many others.

BDU hat called a cover?  I personally never called it that.  Maybe as a cadet, but not for certain.  I do remember calling it a "PC" (Patrol Cap) or a BDU cap.  When I wore fatigues, we called it a fatigue hat or "PC".  I wore an olive drab PC as a cadet with my fatigues.

Nametapes?  I just like consistency.  Subdued nametapes would  look better to me.  You may disagree and that's cool. 

I personally don't care why you don't wear the military uniform.  I think we should stick with one utility uniform and for me, I prefer Jungle Fatigues, but that's me.

[SARMedTech]

BDU...discussions...causing...bleeding...from...ears...please...make it stop. Just wear the stinking things as they are available to us, put your hat/cap/cover on your head and do your job. Sheesh! Except for the ultramarine tapes. Theyre just ugly and should go away. And people say the berry boards were a punishment...what did we do to deserve those godawful tapes?

[JayT]

No, I would not wear subuded tapes if I had the option of, becaues I wear the Corporate uniforms. To be nineteen years old in a clear military uniform is unpleasant for me (see my CS post about why I don't wear military style uniforms anymore.)

We're not the USAFAux except under certain circumstances, despite the fact we still tell new members thats what we are.

I've read your post awhile ago (I don't remember it completely), and thought your reasoning was poor.

1. The AF lets cadets who meet weight and height standards wear their uniform, heck they give you the first s/s service dress free, so they don't care.*

2. If someone thinks your in the military, just correct them and let them know what CAP is all about It their fault for mistaking it. The reaction I get in "CAP still exists?!?"

3. I'm pretty sure a military person would rather see you wearing an AF style correctly than some pseudo-uniform thats not military at all. There obviously may be some exceptions.

and

4. I wouldn't want to wear corporates because I would have to buy them. I can get USAF style from my squadron supply.

It's a personal choice and I don't care what you wear. For me, I'll wear what the cadets around me are wearing (USAF style). Does it make me a wannabe? No, although I have seen my share.

It sounds like your trying too hard to pull the "I'm not a wannabe" look off. Whatever floats your boat. Don't take it as a personal attack, it just the vibe I got from reading your posts.



*Forgot to add: Cadets over 18 must meet weight/ height requirments

Well, my point is mutlifold.

First off, if you wanna wear the Air Force style uniform, all the power to you. I'm not judging those who day, I'm just saying that at my age, wearing a clearly 'military' uniform, that getting mistaken for a Soldier or Airman is a dishonor to those who do serve. At a Memorial Day ceremony, while in AF style service dress, a women who's son died in Iraq thanked me for serving in the military. I explained what CAP was, then got in my car and left. There was a few incidents like that that made me feel like I was representing myself as something I am most definately not.

Also, I don't really care what a military person would rather see me wear. I'm wearing my organizations uniform. 

But that's wasn't really my point. My point was more 'Why do we go out of our way to not use the proper termage?'

Why call it a cover when hat is more proper? Does it sound more 'military?'
Why wish for subuded tapes when the ones we've been wearing for forty plus years, back to when the Air Force worn nearly identical ones, are fine? Why do we need to wear full cam uniforms? (Unless of course, we wanna take a cue from our British and Aussie brothers, and do military field craft.)

Why do we teach so many drill movements incorrectly?

Why don't we just read the book and do the right thing the first time?

[Ford73Diesel]

Why call it a cover when hat is more proper? Does it sound more 'military?'
Why wish for subuded tapes when the ones we've been wearing for forty plus years, back to when the Air Force worn nearly identical ones, are fine? Why do we need to wear full cam uniforms? (Unless of course, we wanna take a cue from our British and Aussie brothers, and do military field craft.)

Why do we teach so many drill movements incorrectly?

Why don't we just read the book and do the right thing the first time?

You have some good points.

A lot of the things you describe sound like local problems.

I call it a hat because that is what is in 39-1. I call the flight cap a flight cap.

I don't really care about the color of our nametapes. From what I've read. a lot of people on here want to get it so it looks better, and some seem like they just want to be AF officers. I'll wear what they tell me to.

The BDU's are worn because they are available (for now) through DRMO. I'm not buying any more BDU's, so I might switch to BBDU's if I wear my BDU's out. When/ if they adopt the ABU, I might buy it, but that won't be for a long time if it does happen.

In OHWG, we actually have a drill academy to get people up to speed on how drill is sopposed to be done per AFMAN 36-2203. There is one course to teach people to do drill, and another to teach people to teach and lead drill. I've taught at them. They have helped exponentially in the quality of my wing's drill. All encampment cadet staff must go through the myths section.

[Eagle400]

Except for the ultramarine tapes. Theyre just ugly and should go away. And people say the berry boards were a punishment...what did we do to deserve those godawful tapes?

This may sound suprising, but the ultramarine blue BDU tapes were never a punishment.  They were worn by the Air Force in the 60's, and CAP (having better AF relations back then) was allowed to wear them also.  The problem is, unlike the Air Force, CAP never phased them out. 

I think it's time CAP went with dark blue BDU tapes.  The color offers a much more professional look.

[JayT]

See, I don't support a change to all DFUs either.

First off, no one makes web gear in blue. They'll make it in black, but not as much stuff is made in black as it is woodland and OD green.

Second, there's not many second hand blue M65 field jackets out there, and one makes makes a blue military style ECWCS parka and pants.

Also, one of the big draws to CAP is the military style uniforms.

In response to Mister Harding, I've never had a uniform issued to me from CAP National, squadron stores or DRMO, so thats not an issue to me or those around me.

It just seems to me that CAP has a lot of 'local' programs that are everywhere if that makes sense, and we should all do our best to stomp them out.

One of the things we always tell people is that we help cadets prepare for a career in the military if they want. Now how are we helping them if we can't get the simple stuff down?

[Hawk200]

..., and one makes makes a blue military style ECWCS parka and pants.

I'm figuring that you intended to say "no one", which is not accurate. Here's an example of of the Gen 2 Gore-Tex in blue, used by the Coast Guard:

https://www.epropper.com/products/13/Foul%20Weather%20Parka%20II.htm

It is available. But would you drop that kind of coin on it? I wouldn't.

Also, one of the big draws to CAP is the military style uniforms.

I probably wouldn't be here if they weren't.

It just seems to me that CAP has a lot of 'local' programs that are everywhere if that makes sense, and we should all do our best to stomp them out.

There in lies the issue. I think that the wings need to get involved with units more often, even if it's a simple "drop by". If they're doing things wrong, let the commander know that it will be expected to be fixed by the next "drop by" or inspection. I'm starting to wonder if it's really such a negative thing to have unscheduled inspections. You do things right the first time, you should pass any inspection regardless of when it is.

[SARMedTech]

See, I don't support a change to all DFUs either.

First off, no one makes web gear in blue. They'll make it in black, but not as much stuff is made in black as it is woodland and OD green.

Second, there's not many second hand blue M65 field jackets out there, and one makes makes a blue military style ECWCS parka and pants.

Also, one of the big draws to CAP is the military style uniforms.

In response to Mister Harding, I've never had a uniform issued to me from CAP National, squadron stores or DRMO, so thats not an issue to me or those around me.

It just seems to me that CAP has a lot of 'local' programs that are everywhere if that makes sense, and we should all do our best to stomp them out.

One of the things we always tell people is that we help cadets prepare for a career in the military if they want. Now how are we helping them if we can't get the simple stuff down?

Google has been around for what, something like a decade. You shouldnt say things like "no one" until you have done a thorough search for blue web gear. I happen to own some from a highly reputable manufacturer and didnt have to go any further than my local uniform shop to get it.

[JayT]

*shrugs* point me in the direction of the manufatuer then please.

But still, it's certainly easier to aquire green/woodland gear compared to blue or even black. I know that the Coast Guard issued a gortex parka, but thats a lot more coinage then I'm willing to lay down. I picked up my woodland Gortex for about 80 bucks in nearly perfect condition from the local surplus shop. For blue BDUs and Utilities, I have the authorized blue flight jacket. Cheap, warm, and in regulation.


I definately think that 'Hey, impress us' inspections would be a good thing.

[SARMedTech]

I know that regs say we are allowed any civilian outerwear with the blue BDUs but if I have a blue field jacket, am I allowed to wear the same insignia, etc on it that I would on a woodland one?

[Hawk200]

I know that regs say we are allowed any civilian outerwear with the blue BDUs but if I have a blue field jacket, am I allowed to wear the same insignia, etc on it that I would on a woodland one?

Not really sure. CAPM 39-1, TABLE 4-7, LINE 8 "Outergarments" says: "A dark blue field jacket is available and authorized for wear.  If worn, the same accouterments worn on the field uniform shirt will be worn."

It would make sense to wear it in the same manner as the woodland one, but the manual isn't super clear. I don't think anyone would bother you if you did though. If I was going to use BBDU's, and wanted the matching field jacket, I would configure it that way.

[JayT]

The blue M65 is authorized for wear, with the same insignia as the woodland one. Also, the blue MA1 flight jacket is also authorized for wear over the blue BDUs.

[CAP Producer]

You sure can.

[SARMedTech]

Good to know. I own woodland and blue BDUs and wasnt sure what the status of putting patches, etc on the bbdu's was. Thanks for clearing it up. I may also go with the blue flight jacket as these are also sold at my handy dandy uniform shop, which sells everything from surplus to tactical gear and everything in bewtween.

[O-Rex]

Good to know. I own woodland and blue BDUs and wasnt sure what the status of putting patches, etc on the bbdu's was. Thanks for clearing it up. I may also go with the blue flight jacket as these are also sold at my handy dandy uniform shop, which sells everything from surplus to tactical gear and everything in bewtween.

If you wear the BBDU with a blue flight jacket, wouldn't you remove the BBDU shirt?  I would think that wearing the jacket "with your tails hanging out" might look a bit unkempt.

If you've read the policy letter regarding the wear of the Woodland Gore-tex Parka, it's auth'd with the BBDU.

[SARMedTech]

Good to know. I own woodland and blue BDUs and wasnt sure what the status of putting patches, etc on the bbdu's was. Thanks for clearing it up. I may also go with the blue flight jacket as these are also sold at my handy dandy uniform shop, which sells everything from surplus to tactical gear and everything in bewtween.

If you wear the BBDU with a blue flight jacket, wouldn't you remove the BBDU shirt?  I would think that wearing the jacket "with your tails hanging out" might look a bit unkempt.

If you've read the policy letter regarding the wear of the Woodland Gore-tex Parka, it's auth'd with the BBDU.

Yes of course you would remove the BDU shirt with the flight jacket, which then becomes sort of a pain since you have to haul the BDU shirt around with you (and keep it in good condition) in order to put it back on when you take the flight jacket off, since it is my understanding that t-shirts only have to be authorized for certain situations.

[brasda91]

The BDU's are worn because they are available (for now) through DRMO.

Really.....?  Is this the standard across the US because it's not in KY.  I believe all DRMO's are off limits to CAP.  Anybody heard anything different?

Tags - MIKE

[pixelwonk]

Our Wing Supply guy's middle name is DRMO.
I've PM'ed him. (Badger Bob) Maybe he'll post.

[JayT]

Good to know. I own woodland and blue BDUs and wasnt sure what the status of putting patches, etc on the bbdu's was. Thanks for clearing it up. I may also go with the blue flight jacket as these are also sold at my handy dandy uniform shop, which sells everything from surplus to tactical gear and everything in bewtween.

If you wear the BBDU with a blue flight jacket, wouldn't you remove the BBDU shirt?  I would think that wearing the jacket "with your tails hanging out" might look a bit unkempt.

If you've read the policy letter regarding the wear of the Woodland Gore-tex Parka, it's auth'd with the BBDU.

Yes of course you would remove the BDU shirt with the flight jacket, which then becomes sort of a pain since you have to haul the BDU shirt around with you (and keep it in good condition) in order to put it back on when you take the flight jacket off, since it is my understanding that t-shirts only have to be authorized for certain situations.

Can you cite that?

[Ford73Diesel]

Opps, I forgot they cut off DRMO supplies. Either way, they are available. I know a few squadrons that have large surpluses.

[SARMedTech]

Good to know. I own woodland and blue BDUs and wasnt sure what the status of putting patches, etc on the bbdu's was. Thanks for clearing it up. I may also go with the blue flight jacket as these are also sold at my handy dandy uniform shop, which sells everything from surplus to tactical gear and everything in bewtween.

If you wear the BBDU with a blue flight jacket, wouldn't you remove the BBDU shirt?  I would think that wearing the jacket "with your tails hanging out" might look a bit unkempt.

If you've read the policy letter regarding the wear of the Woodland Gore-tex Parka, it's auth'd with the BBDU.

Yes of course you would remove the BDU shirt with the flight jacket, which then becomes sort of a pain since you have to haul the BDU shirt around with you (and keep it in good condition) in order to put it back on when you take the flight jacket off, since it is my understanding that t-shirts only have to be authorized for certain situations.

Can you cite that?

Actually I cant. I was my understanding through my unit that a t-shirt is an undergarment and a BDU is a "working" uniform and that authorization (though I do not know at what level) is required to wear a t-shirt without the BDU blouse. I havent had need to test this yet and I would assume that authorization can be made by the Squadron Commander or whoever authorizes the "uniform of the day."

[badger bob]

The BDU's are worn because they are available (for now) through DRMO.

Really.....?  Is this the standard across the US because it's not in KY.  I believe all DRMO's are off limits to CAP.  Anybody heard anything different?

Tags - MIKE

DRMO's are not off limits to CAP, but they require that CAP follow procedures.

The Wisconsin Wing has received several hundred requisitions from the DRMO in the last couple years including

Ground Team Gear including tents, sleeping bags, back packs, web belts, canteens, boots
AF Nomex flight suits
Generators
Pentium IV desktop computers
copiers
Cisco Routers
GP small tents
Audio visual equipment

Anyone attending Blue Beret or other National Activates at Oshkosh will eat from a half semiload of DRMO kitchen equipment received this last winter.


Please review CAPR 67-1

There are procedures for withdrawls from the DRMO. All withdrawls are now approved by CAP NHQ Logistics, your state CAP-USAF liaison officer and your (regional) responsible CAP-USAF logistics officer.

We have been working on a on-line requisition system for withdrawls from the DRMO. It is available in several regions and soon will be rolled out nationally- but your wing must request to receive.

The WI Wing was the pilot for the on-line system. I am happy to answer questions if I can help.

[badger bob]

Opps, I forgot they cut off DRMO supplies. Either way, they are available. I know a few squadrons that have large surpluses.

They have not cut-off DRMO supplies, but combat uniforms are not currently available to any non-combat programs including CAP, ROTC, JROTC, or Law Enforcement Assistance programs. Stay tuned, CAP-USAF and NHQ-CAP are working on it.

[Ford73Diesel]

Opps, I forgot they cut off DRMO supplies. Either way, they are available. I know a few squadrons that have large surpluses.

They have not cut-off DRMO supplies, but combat uniforms are not currently available to any non-combat programs including CAP, ROTC, JROTC, or Law Enforcement Assistance programs. Stay tuned, CAP-USAF and NHQ-CAP are working on it.

Yup, but i was refering to the DRMO in terms of BDU's.

[RogueLeader]

The way it's worded suggested that we were cut off completely.  When I herd that, I also believed that CAP was completely out in the cold. So to speak.

[badger bob]

The way it's worded suggested that we were cut off completely.  When I herd that, I also believed that CAP was completely out in the cold. So to speak.

Currently, combat uniforms are not available- I know I doesn't make any sense. Our guys in the Gulf probably will know that some guy showing up at the gate in Woodland BDU's probably is not legit.

AF style uniforms are available, Cadet equipment (except BDUs) is available;  ES Ground team equipment is available, and administrative type equipment is available

[SARMedTech]

The way it's worded suggested that we were cut off completely.  When I herd that, I also believed that CAP was completely out in the cold. So to speak.

Currently, combat uniforms are not available- I know I doesn't make any sense. Our guys in the Gulf probably will know that some guy showing up at the gate in Woodland BDU's probably is not legit.

AF style uniforms are available, Cadet equipment (except BDUs) is available;  ES Ground team equipment is available, and administrative type equipment is available

So basically we have to find another source for woodland BDUs? I just bought a couple of ripstop sets at a local uniform shop where I get all my EMS/ES stuff. I know there has been alot of talk about the BDUs not being available, but what is the actual reason. I guess I am not in the loop enough yet to know why we cant get them, at least through channels. Also, since we are talking uniforms...I have an International Yellow waist length windbreaker with "MEDICAL" printed on the back of it. It was given to me during a week long seminar on vehicle extrication, mass casuality, etc. As I say, it is International Yellow (that neat lime green slightly yellow color). As it is meant to stand out, can I wear it in place of the blaze orange on SARs and SARexs or would it be a problem because of the reflective tape "MEDICAL" printed on the back or in the alternative are we required to wear the safety orange vests? Just curious. I get to wear it enough that I dont NEED to wear it in CAP, just wondered if it would be allowed as my high visibility gear. Heck, if I had my pack on, you wouldnt even see the printing on the back.

[badger bob]

The way it's worded suggested that we were cut off completely.  When I herd that, I also believed that CAP was completely out in the cold. So to speak.

Currently, combat uniforms are not available- I know I doesn't make any sense. Our guys in the Gulf probably will know that some guy showing up at the gate in Woodland BDU's probably is not legit.

AF style uniforms are available, Cadet equipment (except BDUs) is available;  ES Ground team equipment is available, and administrative type equipment is available

So basically we have to find another source for woodland BDUs? I just bought a couple of ripstop sets at a local uniform shop where I get all my EMS/ES stuff. I know there has been alot of talk about the BDUs not being available, but what is the actual reason. I guess I am not in the loop enough yet to know why we cant get them, at least through channels. Also, since we are talking uniforms...I have an International Yellow waist length windbreaker with "MEDICAL" printed on the back of it. It was given to me during a week long seminar on vehicle extrication, mass causality, etc. As I say, it is International Yellow (that neat lime green slightly yellow color). As it is meant to stand out, can I wear it in place of the blaze orange on SARs and SARexs or would it be a problem because of the reflective tape "MEDICAL" printed on the back or in the alternative are we required to wear the safety orange vests? Just curious. I get to wear it enough that I don't NEED to wear it in CAP, just wondered if it would be allowed as my high visibility gear. Heck, if I had my pack on, you wouldn't even see the printing on the back.

Vanguard, Hock Shop, Army and Air Force Post Exchanges, and your local Army Surplus stores have BDUs available.

Civil Air Patrol members have permission to purchase CAP approved uniforms from base post exchanges, but entry to the base may need clearance through the base commander.

Many squadrons may have BDUs received before the January freeze. If your local squadron does not, check with nearby squadrons or your wing supply.

[RogueLeader]

What I have done in the past is take a copy of the reg, don't recall what it is off the top of my head, but show it to the guard, and say: "i'm Lt. Seng with the Civil Air Patrol <show ID> and I'm going to the PX for <insert reason> and here is my authorization regulation <show reg>."
Some guards have called it in tomake sure the reg is correct, then they inspect my car, and they wish me a good day.

[Ford73Diesel]

What I have done in the past is take a copy of the reg, don't recall what it is off the top of my head, but show it to the guard, and say: "i'm Lt. Seng with the Civil Air Patrol <show ID> and I'm going to the PX for <insert reason> and here is my authorization regulation <show reg>."
Some guards have called it in tomake sure the reg is correct, then they inspect my car, and they wish me a good day.

I don't know if showing them a CAP reg will work with all bases. I could see NHQ creating a reg authorizing acces to all bases now....

At WPAFB, the part that has clothing sales is more secure than the part where the CAP building is. You need a CAC card to get on the part with the clothing sales store or need to clear it ahead of time (from my experience)

[jimmydeanno]

^ I don't think he was refering to the CAP regulation, but the AFI that says CAP members are authorized to purchase from the uniform clothing stores...(the one that is noted in the CAP regs)

[Hawk200]

I don't know if showing them a CAP reg will work with all bases. I could see NHQ creating a reg authorizing acces to all bases now....

The point is to have legitimate documentation, and a CAP pub is better than nothing. CAP pubs don't have the pull, but if you show them the Air Force regs on CAP shopping on Air Force installations, you would probably never have a problem. I don't recall the AF pub, but I believe it's mentioned in the CAP one.

[badger bob]

CAPR 147-1 includes the applicable Army and Air Force regulation numbers

Army and Air Force Exchange Privileges of Civil Air Patrol Members
EXCHANGE SERVICE
This regulation states the Army and Air Force Exchange privileges authorized Civil Air Patrol senior and cadet members by joint Air Force Regulation 147-14 and Army Regulation 60-20. These two regulations will be, referred to whenever it is necessary to quote the source of authority for exchange privileges since this CAP regulation is for information purposes only with regard to these privileges.

[Major Lord]

Why waste time trying to get on a base or putting up with Vanguard?
www.bdu.com has brand new, Propper Brand BDU's for what you would pay for them from AFEES ( My Sq is on Travis AFB, so for me it's not a problem, but I also wear black BDU's in my other life, and these people are fast and reliable in my experience)

Capt. Lord

[Ford73Diesel]

^^^^^

Propper is a very good brand for BDU's.

[Hawk200]

^^^^^

Propper is a very good brand for BDU's.

Very good BDU's. A little spendy, but in life you get what you pay for. They're worth the money.

[floridacyclist]

I'm not sure if it's a different cloth or not, but I've split two sets of BBDUs from Propper (I buy them at the local uniform store), one across the seat and one right in front of the crotch area and neither on a seam. I never had this problem with Camo BDUs.

[JayT]

The way it's worded suggested that we were cut off completely.  When I herd that, I also believed that CAP was completely out in the cold. So to speak.

Currently, combat uniforms are not available- I know I doesn't make any sense. Our guys in the Gulf probably will know that some guy showing up at the gate in Woodland BDU's probably is not legit.

AF style uniforms are available, Cadet equipment (except BDUs) is available;  ES Ground team equipment is available, and administrative type equipment is available

So basically we have to find another source for woodland BDUs? I just bought a couple of ripstop sets at a local uniform shop where I get all my EMS/ES stuff. I know there has been alot of talk about the BDUs not being available, but what is the actual reason. I guess I am not in the loop enough yet to know why we cant get them, at least through channels. Also, since we are talking uniforms...I have an International Yellow waist length windbreaker with "MEDICAL" printed on the back of it. It was given to me during a week long seminar on vehicle extrication, mass casuality, etc. As I say, it is International Yellow (that neat lime green slightly yellow color). As it is meant to stand out, can I wear it in place of the blaze orange on SARs and SARexs or would it be a problem because of the reflective tape "MEDICAL" printed on the back or in the alternative are we required to wear the safety orange vests? Just curious. I get to wear it enough that I dont NEED to wear it in CAP, just wondered if it would be allowed as my high visibility gear. Heck, if I had my pack on, you wouldnt even see the printing on the back.

Don't take this the wrong way, but if I say an SM rocking something like that, I would avoid them like the plague.

[RogueLeader]

CAPR 147-1 States

This regulation states the Army and Air Force Exchange privileges authorized Civil Air Patrol senior and cadet members by joint Air Force Regulation 147-14 and Army Regulation 60-20. These two regulations will be, referred to whenever it is necessary to quote the source of authority for exchange privileges since this CAP regulation is for information purposes only with regard to these privileges.

It is not CAPR 147-1 that really authorizes us, but AFR 147-14 and AR 60-20.

[RogueLeader]

opps, didn't see previous.

[SARMedTech]

I'm not sure if it's a different cloth or not, but I've split two sets of BBDUs from Propper (I buy them at the local uniform store), one across the seat and one right in front of the crotch area and neither on a seam. I never had this problem with Camo BDUs.

I would suggest that maybe you had some defective Proppers or seconds on your hands. I wear ONLY Proppers for EMS and until I found them managed to destroy a lot of other tact pants by doing simple things like going down on one knee to take vitals or lifting a patient on a long board.  When its available, all of my "tactical" clothing is from Propper. I actually have an old pair that I tried to pull the seems apart and couldnt do it. Of course, i wear the heavier duty variety, so that may make some difference.

[RiverAux]

Rarely do any of the "rip-stop" versions of BDUs seem to really last all that long.  Constantly ripping out the crotch area.  My current rip stop BDUs are from Propper and they've held up pretty well, but I can't really recall putting them to much field use -- too much mission staff work the last few years. 

[Ford73Diesel]

I've never had summer weight break on me, and I have some older sets. I should buy a winter set though....

[SarDragon]

AFR 147-14 and AR 60-20 are actually the same document.

[RogueLeader]

AFR 147-14 and AR 60-20 are actually the same document.

That may well be, but I doubt an Army Guard will accept an AF reg and vice versa.

[SarDragon]

AFR 147-14 and AR 60-20 are actually the same document.

That may well be, but I doubt an Army Guard will accept an AF reg and vice versa.

If you download the document, you will see that both numbers are on the cover. It is the Army and Air Force Exchange Service.

[RogueLeader]

Ah, I stand Corrected.

[Hawk200]

If you download the document, you will see that both numbers are on the cover. It is the Army and Air Force Exchange Service.

Joint documents can be handy at times.

Anyone know if there is a Navy/Marine Corps document that addresses the same issue?

[SarDragon]

What issue? CAP on USN/USMC bases? That doesn't happen all that often, and the uniform items don't quite match up. I don't ever recall seeing any mention of CAP in the exchange regs, but it has been a while since I dug into them.

[Sgt. Savage]

My wife works for NEXCOM on a navy Base. They do have a Navy reg that authorizes us patronage. I'll ask her what reg it is and get back to you. I purchase a lot of BDU and prior service medals / ribbons there. It close and well stocked.

[Hawk200]

My wife works for NEXCOM on a navy Base. They do have a Navy reg that authorizes us patronage. I'll ask her what reg it is and get back to you. I purchase a lot of BDU and prior service medals / ribbons there. It close and well stocked.

That's the kind of thing I was looking for. And I imagine that reg is probably downloadable. Would be handy if you're in the vicinity of a Naval base.