Tapes for ABU's

[RogueLeader]

Here are some possible tape combinations that could be put into a proposal.  Please keep in mind that a new tape color would be changed on all utility uniforms.

[Hawk200]

I'd go White on Midnite, but I guess White on Navy would be OK as a second option.

[Pylon]

What about choices such as Dark Blue on ABU or White on ABU?

[Hawk200]

What about choices such as Dark Blue on ABU or White on ABU?

The Air Force is using blue on ABU material. You really think they would let us do that? Be honest. 

[Pylon]

What about choices such as Dark Blue on ABU or White on ABU?

The Air Force is using blue on ABU material. You really think they would let us do that? Be honest. 

:angel:  A guy can dream, can't he?

But seriously, we should at least consider some sort of color embroidery on ABU fabric.  I don't think that ABU fabric implies the same appearance that "subdued tapes" implies as far as military association goes.

[Hawk200]

Kind of wondering who voted for blue on charcoal. It would be a little wierd looking.

Now if there was a nametape that would be the same color grey as the cloth background on stripes and badges, I could go for that. And ironically, it would look better than what the Air Force is doing.

[Hawk200]

:angel:  A guy can dream, can't he?

Yeah, just remember your towel when you wake up. 

But seriously, we should at least consider some sort of color embroidery on ABU fabric.  I don't think that ABU fabric implies the same appearance that "subdued tapes" implies as far as military association goes.

I can't really think of anything on that would look all that good on ABU background, except some kind of dark color. Considering that Air Force blues stripes are on essentially a midnite blue background anyway, nametapes of white on midnite would match up fairly well.

Speaking of dreams, a thought of blue on grey background matching the stripes and badges that the Air Force has could result in us getting subdued badges and rank insignia. It would be subdued, but noticeably different from the AF ABU. And with a little work, we could "semi-subdue" some of our patches in colors like blue, grey, darker greens, maroons, etc. Having patches when the AF doesn't wear any would present a distinction as well.

But then again, we have to wake up in the morning.

Now that I'm typing the written equivalent of verbal diarrhea, something else comes to mind. Would one of the biggest reasons for the bright color patches on the uutilities having been around so long be that there was a time when members not meeting weight/grooming could wear them without rank insignia? Since there are now corporate equivalents of those detail uniforms, why is there a need for full color patches on the military variant utilities?

And before some starts with "So we can see you in the woods!", don't bother. We're supposed to be wearing orange vests anyway, and a few full color patches really doesn't really stand in the way of blending in, if you want to. We could have semi-subdued accoutrements that would present a professional military appearance, without looking exactly like the Air Force.

[Eclipse]

Why isn't there a "don't care, doesn't apply to CAP..." option?

[RogueLeader]

No this would be for us, in CAP- not USAF.  Sorry, should have made that more clear.

[Eclipse]

No this would be for us, in CAP- not USAF.  Sorry, should have made that more clear.

No, that's my point.

What's the point of having a discussion about nametapes for a uniform we have no chance in seeing this decade?

[O-Rex]

No this would be for us, in CAP- not USAF.  Sorry, should have made that more clear.

No, that's my point.

What's the point of having a discussion about nametapes for a uniform we have no chance in seeing this decade?

You can see: you just can't touch.

Considering there's only two and a half years left in this decade, I'm not worried.  Besides, my BDU's still got alot of life in them, and my black gore-tex ICB's totally rock.

But when they do switch to the latest fashion, white on navy blue would make sense, considering that we've been moving away from ultramarine uniforms and acoutrements in the last couple of years.

Let's assume that we would phase in dark-blue items with the ABU, there would be the question of phase-out dates for BDU's (which would probably bo near or at the end of the 2010's) and if dark blue items would be authorized on them.  That would be a CAP decision since by then USAF wouldn't care about a uniform they no longer wear.  Then there is the phase in/phase out of stocks of dark & ultramarine items at Vanguard.  Most of us trench-grunts could prabably care less about the Vanguard issue, but when you run CAP, you gotta consider the impact on your organization and your 'partners.'

Then there is the issue of boots: the new green ones won't be cheap, and there are still plenty of affordable black ones around, and they'll probably get cheaper and the DoD demand dwindles.  Black boots with ABU's, at least for a while?  Makes sense from a cost-standpoint, and USAF certainly won't object to something that would distinguish a CAP member from an Airman at 100 yds.   

It's all do-able, just has to be coordinated by NHQ: they should probably start kicking the idea around. . . . 

Back to the nametapes: regarless of the color, I would like to see Vanguard offering nametapes in fabric (like the company that the preceding illustrations were culled from...)  Cotton webbing has been around since GI's carried M-1's.  Fabric technoloy has changed, and we now have alternatives that are more durable and less colorfast. . . .

[RogueLeader]

It serves several purposes:
a) takes time to get proposals written/submitted and sent up Chain of Command
b) if liked it takes
     1) approval from USAF
     2) getting contractors/design proofs
     3) formal contracts/legalese
c) regs written to specify wear, shades, etc.
d) phase in new/ phase out old

Even if we don't see ACU's in the near future, I think that we need to be proactive in getting the entire uniform done right the first time.  Very few uniforms are created in months, right?  I believe that if we take this slow and well planned, we might be able to influence what uniforms we get, instead of just getting what is handed down.  I understand that not all uniforms will be acceptable to CAP/CC or USAF, but why not give it a try?

[LtCol White]

What about dark blue on OD like USAF wears now since the ABU tape will be different

[LtCol White]

No this would be for us, in CAP- not USAF.  Sorry, should have made that more clear.

No, that's my point.

What's the point of having a discussion about nametapes for a uniform we have no chance in seeing this decade?

You're gonna see ABU's in CAP within the next 2-3 yrs as it was with the BDU

[RogueLeader]

Back to the nametapes: regarless of the color, I would like to see Vanguard offering nametapes in fabric (like the company that the preceding illustrations were culled from...)  Cotton webbing has been around since GI's carried M-1's.  Fabric technoloy has changed, and we now have alternatives that are more durable and less colorfast. . . .

The images were pulled from 1-800-NameTapes.com

[RiverAux]

Let's assume that we would phase in dark-blue items with the ABU, there would be the question of phase-out dates for BDU's (which would probably bo near or at the end of the 2010's)

Just to let you know, just about as soon as the CG Aux was authorized to wear the CG ODU (their dark blue BDU), almost everyone bought the new uniform even though the old style CG Working Blue uniform can be worn until the uniform is no longer servicable. 

So, even if the required CAP BDU phaseout was far in the future of ABU authorization, I would anticipate that you would not see very many at all within about a year or so of when we are authorized to wear ABUs. 

[O-Rex]

Back to the nametapes: regarless of the color, I would like to see Vanguard offering nametapes in fabric (like the company that the preceding illustrations were culled from...)  Cotton webbing has been around since GI's carried M-1's.  Fabric technoloy has changed, and we now have alternatives that are more durable and less colorfast. . . .

The images were pulled from 1-800-NameTapes.com

Iknow,I was politely trying to leave out the names. . . 

[RogueLeader]

Just because that is where I got them from, they are not curently authorized, so big deal if NHQ doesn't like it.  They can't stop 1-800 from selling non-CAP stuff.

[Hawk200]

So, even if the required CAP BDU phaseout was far in the future of ABU authorization, I would anticipate that you would not see very many at all within about a year or so of when we are authorized to wear ABUs. 

Interesting point. I know on Army installations, you might only see two or three people wearing BDU's as opposed to a year ago, and that's only if you're all over the post that day. The caveat is that the Army either issues, or has clothing allowance (for enlisted anyway).

I'll pick up a set when they're authorized, but probably only one initially (mostly for the novelty). My BDU's only get worn once a week, they have plenty of life left in them.

Considering our members self-equip, I figure it will probably be a few years before almost everyone will be wearing them. There are plenty of folks that always buy the latest and greatest, and you'll probably see an almost half and half for awhile, but I think the personal investment issue will slow some of that down.

[RiverAux]

I think you're underestimating the "cool" factor.  Peer preassure is also a bit of an issue. 

The CG Aux members buy their uniforms too and faced the same cost factors. 

I wonder about cadets though.  With them cost is more of an issue (as well as growth), but they would probably be even more stoked to wear the new uniforms when they can. 

[Hawk200]

I think you're underestimating the "cool" factor.  Peer preassure is also a bit of an issue. 

True enough. It can be a strong motivator.

I wonder about cadets though.  With them cost is more of an issue (as well as growth), but they would probably be even more stoked to wear the new uniforms when they can. 

Also true. I may hold off on them then, for that reason. I don't want cadets to think that they have to have them. If it takes time for some seniors to wear them, cadets may be a little more thoughtful about it.

Now if the peer pressure results in more uniformity, that's always a good thing.

[jimmydeanno]

^but then they may think you're just out of uniform like the other seniors...

[Eclipse]

Even if we don't see ACU's in the near future, I think that we need to be proactive in getting the entire uniform done right the first time.  Very few uniforms are created in months, right?  I believe that if we take this slow and well planned, we might be able to influence what uniforms we get, instead of just getting what is handed down.  I understand that not all uniforms will be acceptable to CAP/CC or USAF, but why not give it a try?

Give what a try and who's we?

There is constant chatter on this board and other places that the 10 or so people who actually contribute (as in argue in circles on end) actually influence anything at NHQ.

Also, a major complaint here, other boards, and even the RealMilitary® is too many uniform changes, yet we've got those same people pushing more change needlessly.

The woodland camo is already arguably inappropriate for most of our missions, but its serviceable, lokos good when dirty. and there's a whole munge-load of them in the world.

If you guys want to drop the "wannas-bees" tag, start concentrating on something that's actually important.

[Hawk200]

^but then they may think you're just out of uniform like the other seniors...

I've educated a few of my fellow senior members on what uniformity actually is. I got told one time that I was out of uniform because I was wearing a brown T-shirt instead of black like everyone else. I took care of that real quick.

I know black is authorized, but I have 14 brown T-shirts that are perfectly serviceable, I don't see any reason to go buy black ones.

[ddelaney103]

I would like a "White on Charcoal" option for the poll.

I think we should avoid subdued tapes and badges.  The RM(tm) wears subdued because they're splitting the difference b/w tactical and command/control considerations.  Since we don't have to worry about tactical considerations, visibility should be our main concern.

[Hawk200]

Since we don't have to worry about tactical considerations, visibility should be our main concern.

Do you really honestly believe that a nametape with some white or other bright color on it is going to make you completely visible? You should have an orange vest on during missions, regardless of what you're wearing. There's your visibility.

This idea that bright colored patches and namtapes are going to be what makes a person totally visible in all environments, or somehow renders them incapable of getting lost is a little ridiculous. Let that idea go, nobody that thinks about it in a logical manner is going to buy it. Even people wearing orange vests or the "gasoline" colors get lost, but those colors can go a long way in helping you get found, provided of course that you don't panic and wander aimlessly.

We as members may be able to influence the next uniform. But it's going to take a package that is well written, and delivered to the appropriate people. Just talking about it here is not going to magically make it happen. What say we work on it? Anyone game? I'll put my name on it.

[RogueLeader]

I'm ready to rock, been ready to rock- just looking for others to roll along with.  I'm your wing Hawk200.
Hooah.

[Hawk200]

I'm ready to rock, been ready to rock- just looking for others to roll along with.  I'm your wing Hawk200.
Hooah.

Cool. Anyone that would like to work on a package submission to National to work with, PM me. Maybe we'll come up with some kind of working group. If we want change, let's make it happen.

[ddelaney103]

Since we don't have to worry about tactical considerations, visibility should be our main concern.

Do you really honestly believe that a nametape with some white or other bright color on it is going to make you completely visible? You should have an orange vest on during missions, regardless of what you're wearing. There's your visibility.

This idea that bright colored patches and namtapes are going to be what makes a person totally visible in all environments, or somehow renders them incapable of getting lost is a little ridiculous. Let that idea go, nobody that thinks about it in a logical manner is going to buy it. Even people wearing orange vests or the "gasoline" colors get lost, but those colors can go a long way in helping you get found, provided of course that you don't panic and wander aimlessly.

No, I meant "visibility" as in "can read name or grade at a range of over 10 feet."  Subdued tapes, esp the MARPAT/ACU/ABU patterns, leave a lot to be desired from a readability standpoint.

You're going to hurt your knees if you keep jumping to conclusions like that.

[Hawk200]

No, I meant "visibility" as in "can read name or grade at a range of over 10 feet."  Subdued tapes, esp the MARPAT/ACU/ABU patterns, leave a lot to be desired from a readability standpoint.

I can see that viewpoint. White on some kind of dark color would probably work best in that case. I just hope noone wants to put orange lettering on one though.

You're going to hurt your knees if you keep jumping to conclusions like that.

Not much of a jump, you did have to explain it after all.

[RogueLeader]

Here are some rank color options that I thought of:

[RogueLeader]

It has been pointed out to me that the Blue on OD will still be used by USAF.  Therefore, it is not viable.  I appreciate any comments.

NOTE: I did these in MS paint for Color Comparison, and not as actual rank insignia.

[Hawk200]

It has been pointed out to me that the Blue on OD will still be used by USAF.  Therefore, it is not viable.  I appreciate any comments.

Based on the recent information that the Air Force has disseminated on the ABU, rank insignia will be subdued (brown or blue) on an urban grey background. OD is not a complimentary color for the ABU.

[LtCol White]

It has been pointed out to me that the Blue on OD will still be used by USAF.  Therefore, it is not viable.  I appreciate any comments.

Based on the recent information that the Air Force has disseminated on the ABU, rank insignia will be subdued (brown or blue) on an urban grey background. OD is not a complimentary color for the ABU.

USAF rank and insignia will be midnight blue on the urban grey background.

[Hawk200]

USAF rank and insignia will be midnight blue on the urban grey background.

Except for 2LT and MAJ, which will be brown. It looks funny, but you get used to it.

[SARMedTech]

I vote for just about anything but ultramarine. I still think thats a punishment. I dont actively complain about them, but they are ugly. Ive had "civilians" as me what the ultramarine was meant to signify, as in GT, Pilot, etc. Its probably moot because we are probably going to see ABUs about the time they arm us and give hum-v's and boonies.

[SARMedTech]

Even if we don't see ACU's in the near future, I think that we need to be proactive in getting the entire uniform done right the first time.  Very few uniforms are created in months, right?  I believe that if we take this slow and well planned, we might be able to influence what uniforms we get, instead of just getting what is handed down.  I understand that not all uniforms will be acceptable to CAP/CC or USAF, but why not give it a try?

Give what a try and who's we?

There is constant chatter on this board and other places that the 10 or so people who actually contribute (as in argue in circles on end) actually influence anything at NHQ.

Also, a major complaint here, other boards, and even the RealMilitary® is too many uniform changes, yet we've got those same people pushing more change needlessly.

The woodland camo is already arguably inappropriate for most of our missions, but its serviceable, lokos good when dirty. and there's a whole munge-load of them in the world.

If you guys want to drop the "wannas-bees" tag, start concentrating on something that's actually important.

Double BZ!!!