Radiation monitoring, Ground Teams and Non-CAP Training & Experience

[Potomac Grays]

After over thirty years combined Federal and State Military service, I recently joined CAP.  What an outstanding organization! 

Along the way, I've managed to accumulate quite a few credentials (Major, Infantry-Military Police-Engineer-Armored Cavalry Branch Qualifications, FEMA ICS Instructor, Haz-MAT Technician/Trainer with specialities in Radiological/Weapons of Mass Destruction, PhD, Police/Security Instructor, Hazard Analysis Facilitator, etc. and so on)...

I believe I've met all the requirements for CAP ARM, GRM, and Ground Teams...

My problem?  I'm having trouble finding someone to review my records in my Wing.  We have no ground-team or radiological evaluators....

I've completed the Level One qualifications, Yeagar qualifications, GES and SET.  I found the training interesting and challenging.  I'm not asking for a "gimme", to circumvent CAP requirements or to come in as the "new guy" and run the show, I just would like a fair evaluation of three decades of experience and training...

Since no one is available (or qualified) in my Wing to evaluate my records, I'm open to suggestions...

[arajca]

Currently, CAP doesn't have a GRM or ARM mission - excluding a couple of wings. If your wing can't evaluate your credentials for G/ARM, chance are it isn't a mission you'd do.

As for the GT, get the Specialty Qualification Training Record (SQTR) from National. Contact your unit ES officer. They should be able to direct to a qualified evaluator. They'll most likely have you demonstrate the tasks before signing you off.

[Eclipse]

Welcome to CAP.

As to GT or other ES qualifications, the requirements are very objective, and don't really allow for "experience credit".

The example I use is that CAP is certainly not going to show a career Ranger how to use a compass, but with that said, there are still specific tasks that need to be demonstrated to an SET to insure you are current, able, and understand the "CAP Way", which is generally much lower impact than anything you would have done in the Army.

The process for training includes required equipment and mission participation.   To get to GT1 requires six missions, and GTLeader an additional 2 on top of that.  These have to be assigned mission numbers, whether they are AFAMs, SAREx's, or unfunded local training with a Wing number.

It is likely that someone with your indicated experience could spend a day or weekend on a bivouac and knock all or most of the performance tasks, and then you would just need mission participation.

[Potomac Grays]

Thanks for the responses, but I'd still like help locating someone to sign off and review my "ground" quals...

As for "it's not a mission we'd do"... My Squadron was thrilled to have someone interested in ground and radiological missions, so thay can expand their training into those areas and make us even more useful!  But, before I can sign off those skills, I have to be "CAP qualified" myself...  Funny, I can train/ ;)certify people in three states, for OSHA and for FEMA, but not for CAP...

Quite a "Catch-22", eh?

[Potomac Grays]

...oh, I forgot to add, we don't have an "ES" Officer (that may be me)... 

[Al Sayre]

Have your SQ/CC submit the GRM SQTR.  Then get with your Wing DOS (Director of Emergency Services) and show him your credentials, he can approve your Radiological Monitoring qualifications, since CAP has no specific standards for this, but accepts outside certification.

[BlackKnight]

The process for training includes required equipment and mission participation.   To get to GT1 requires six missions, and GTLeader an additional 2 on top of that.  These have to be assigned mission numbers, whether they are AFAMs, SAREx's, or unfunded local training with a Wing number.

Well, not exactly.  Strangely enough, the pre-requisite for GTL is GTM3.  So it is possible to get GTL with only 4 mission sorties: 2 for GTM3 and 2 for GTL.  GTM2 and GTM1 can be skipped. I suspect this is allowed for exactly the situation Poulton find himself in.  If we assume his wing needs GTLs, he has excellent prior training, thus it's desirable to get him working on GTL as soon as reasonably practicable.  I've noticed that most GTLs who take the GTM3->GTL route are pretty good about eventually going back and picking up GTM2 and GTM1 qualifications.

[Eclipse]

Thanks for the responses, but I'd still like help locating someone to sign off and review my "ground" quals...

As for "it's not a mission we'd do"... My Squadron was thrilled to have someone interested in ground and radiological missions, so thay can expand their training into those areas and make us even more useful!  But, before I can sign off those skills, I have to be "CAP qualified" myself...  Funny, I can train/ ;)certify people in three states, for OSHA and for FEMA, but not for CAP...

Quite a "Catch-22", eh?

Not really - I can't imagine you just walked in the door and started signing people off for OSHA and FEMA, there had to be some kind of process or certification in order to insure you were qualified.

A cursory review by a corporate director is not that much to ask, especially for something which is outside CAP's normal area of expertise.

My personal advice would be to attend some meetings and see how things work for a while before trying to push too hard.  I see a lot of new members who come in like fire trying to get their unit involved in things the unit (or CAP) is not ready for, or are inappropriate to our core missions (like medical professionals and EMTs), then get frustrated when things don't happen quickly enough (or at all).

Beating the drum for ARM & GRM is walking down that path, the chances of our ever getting called for this are exactly zero.  It is no longer a part of our training, we don't have the equipment, and there are professional agencies which do this (as you know).

I am sure you have plenty to offer to your unit, and your Unit CC has needs and should have a plan. As I'm sure you did in the RealMilitary®, your best bet is to get the idea how things work in CAP before challenging the system. Hint: They work much slower, and much less efficiently than the RealMilitary® (which, as your experience has shown you, isn't exactly always a well-oiled machine, either).

In the four posts I've seen you do here, every one ended with a question as to why the system is convoluted, or why you aren't getting the special consideration you think you should.

It'll all come together, it just takes time.

[RogueLeader]

Also, GTL has many, if not all quals for GTM 2 and 1, IIRC.

[Eclipse]

The process for training includes required equipment and mission participation.   To get to GT1 requires six missions, and GTLeader an additional 2 on top of that.  These have to be assigned mission numbers, whether they are AFAMs, SAREx's, or unfunded local training with a Wing number.

Well, not exactly.  Strangely enough, the pre-requisite for GTL is GTM3.  So it is possible to get GTL with only 4 mission sorties: 2 for GTM3 and 2 for GTL.  GTM2 and GTM1 can be skipped. I suspect this is allowed for exactly the situation Poulton find himself in.  If we assume his wing needs GTLs, he has excellent prior training, thus it's desirable to get him working on GTL as soon as reasonably practicable.  I've noticed that most GTLs who take the GTM3->GTL route are pretty good about eventually going back and picking up GTM2 and GTM1 qualifications.

Yes, granted the GTL can be achieved before GTM1, I am personally not a fan of the GT3/L.

The requirement that the team drop to the level of the GTL, hinders mission participation and makes it harder for us GBD types to assemble teams.

[BlackKnight]

...oh, I forgot to add, we don't have an "ES" Officer (that may be me)... 

Just don't do what another new ES officer I met did once.  He too had lots of military "SAR" experience.  He enthusiastically jumped on MIMS, filled out his online GTM3 and UDF SQTRs using his own CAPID as the trainer, invented his own mission numbers, then submitted the SQTRs for approval.  He figured that as long as MIMS accepted the entries they must be okay. Naturally, it almost instantly sailed through squadron, group, and wing approval levels.  

[IceNine]

You keep asking for help finding a SET  but you never say what wing your in nor what part of that wing?

And, you haven't said what you've tried to find a SET?

Answer these 2 questions and you may get a better response on who can help you achieve this results.

[Eclipse]

You keep asking for help finding a SET  but you never say what wing your in nor what part of that wing?

And, you haven't said what you've tried to find a SET?

Answer these 2 questions and you may get a better response on who can help you achieve this results.

Actually, without giving away PERSEC info, the "wing" you're in may have issues with the ops tempo of ES.
In fact, I'd be curious to know how much, if any you guys actually do.

[RiverAux]

Boy, I hadn't realized they changed things to let a someone skip right from the lowest GT level to GTL.  I missed that change. 

[brasda91]

You keep asking for help finding a SET  but you never say what wing your in

I was wondering the same thing.

[RogueLeader]

Boy, I hadn't realized they changed things to let a someone skip right from the lowest GT level to GTL.  I missed that change. 

Look at the SQTR's for GTM2, GTM1, and GTL. GTL has many- not all- of the GTM2/1 tasks.  So really, the GTL is not "skipping" GTM2/1, just some tasks.

[Eclipse]

Boy, I hadn't realized they changed things to let a someone skip right from the lowest GT level to GTL.  I missed that change. 

Look at the SQTR's for GTM2, GTM1, and GTL. GTL has many- not all- of the GTM2/1 tasks.  So really, the GTL is not "skipping" GTM2/1, just some tasks.

That changed about 2 years ago when they revised the ES curriculum.  The overt reasoning was to get more members "qualified" quicker, and allow for more people to be GTLs, because, despite my personal opinion on the matter, I will grant it could take a long time to get to GTL.

With that said, I have seen a number of cases where members stop working on the rest of the GT curriculum once they get to GTL and don't bother working towards GTM1.

Since a lot of members don't keep up with the regs, the odds are pretty good that you'll be able to deploy on whatever mission is put in front of you, because (gross generalization) a lot of GBDs simply wouldn't take the time to see of their people are fully rated.

Also, the vast majority of our tasking on the ground are covered in GT3, and since a GTL/3 has all the bling they are going to get, well, where's the motivation?

As an old-schooler who had to claw up the "old way" in a Wing which (at the time) was focused on air ops, I'm just whining sour grapes.