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Eagle Scout Ribbon

Started by Greg, February 15, 2005, 02:45:01 AM

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Greg

A few members of NJWG CAC were toying with the idea of a proposal authorizing a ribbon for Eagle Scouts.  I'm personally against this, but what are your thoughts?
C/Maj Greg(ory) Boyajian, CAP
Air Victory Museum Composite Squadron

Yoda

Well, if we do that, shouldn't we have a ribbon for a 4.0 GPA and sports state champions?  Ribbons are meant to denote success within CAP.  If we're going to start having ribbons to recognize successes outside of CAP, we need to be uniform about it.  I say leave well enough alone.  The last thing we really need is more ribbons.

Schmidty06

But can't we also wear AF marksmanship ribbons if we qualify for them?  I myself wouldn't be a fan of an Eagle Scout ribbon.  If we did have one, we would have to have a ribbon for the highest achievement of every other backwards or forwards cadet or youth program in the country.

Pylon

Quote from: Schmidty06 on February 15, 2005, 05:21:48 AM
But can't we also wear AF marksmanship ribbons if we qualify for them?

Air Force awards are different.  CAP can wear all awards, ribbons, and devices that are authorized for wear on the USAF uniforms. 

However, an Eagle Scout Ribbon I would also not favor, mostly being in line with a lot of the above stated sentiments.  If we recognize the Boy Scouts achievement as something worthwhile of recognition in CAP, what's to stop JROTC or other youth organizations from wanting/getting the same recognition.   It opens the doors and sets the precedent for a whole new slew of ribbons, to recognize all sorts of achievement outside of the CAP Cadet Program.

Ribbons, awards, and devices are designed to show a cadet's progress and level of participation within the scope of CAP and the Cadet Program.  For Seniors, it accomplishes the same:  They demonstrate the member's professional development progress, achievements, and their level of involvement with Civil Air Patrol.

It just doesn't make sense, to me.
Michael F. Kieloch, Maj, CAP

sjtrupp

A cadet only needs to fill out a CAPF 2A, requesting the Comunity Service Ribbon and use the Eagle Scout certificate as documentation.  Since the Eagle Scout requires more than 40 hours Community Service, it should be approved without a problem.  Why have a special ribbon in addition to the Community Service Ribbon.

Of course this is my personal thoughts, if the CAC wants to put it forward, it shouldn't be knocked for being a "bad idea".   Allow them to put it through, if that's what they want.

Schmidty06

I feel that even though they can put it up as a proposal, that it will end up biting us in the six later down the road. 

Greg

Quote from: sjtrupp on February 15, 2005, 09:16:48 PM
A cadet only needs to fill out a CAPF 2A, requesting the Comunity Service Ribbon and use the Eagle Scout certificate as documentation.  Since the Eagle Scout requires more than 40 hours Community Service, it should be approved without a problem.

Don't you need 60 hrs for CAP's Community Service Ribbon?
C/Maj Greg(ory) Boyajian, CAP
Air Victory Museum Composite Squadron

Pylon

Certainly the CAC can go ahead and write their proposal.  However, many CACs have submitted many proposals over the years for ribbons.  Many of them were good ideas, some were debatable, however most all of them were rejected.

The addition of a ribbon has to make it past a majority vote of the National Board, plus perhaps an approval by USAF as well, since it deals with uniforms.  Barely anything makes it that far.

Proposals in the past have included a Cadet Command Service ribbon to signify completed 1 yr. service as a C/CC.; as well as ribbons for the Congressional Medal awards program (which CAP encourages and has a regulation devoted to), and many others.

If a CAC writes a proposal, it doesn't mean that it will get accepted.  In fact, it doesn't even mean that it has good odds of getting approved.  CAC's are a leadership laboratory, however, and like all labs, experiments which might fail shouldn't be stopped based just on that.  Otherwise, we'd never learn.  Therefore, if that's what they decide to do, I hope they follow through.  In the same breath, I hope that NB returns their proposal with constructive comments.
Michael F. Kieloch, Maj, CAP

CAPSGT

There are plenty of ribbons for cadets as it is.  By the time I crossed into the grey, I was up to 24 ribbons.  And that's not including clasps on some of the ribbons.

If the National Board didn't want to approve a ribbon for cadet commanders (on the grounds that there were enough ribbons already), why would they approve a ribbon for eagle scouts?

As has already been said, use the community service ribbon to show your outside service to the community.
MICHAEL A. CROCKETT, Lt Col, CAP
Assistant Communications Officer, Wicomico Composite Squadron

Nathan

Well, it's an interesting idea, but what about Naval Sea Scouts? Shouldn't they get their own ribbon? Young Marines? Girl Scouts? McDonalds manager? Student of the week?

Something you need to think about.
Nathan Scalia

The post beneath this one is a lie.

Schmidty06

At the rate I'm going, I'll be looking something like General Patton by the time I become a senior member.

Briski

I concur with the other sentiments on this thread.

That said, if your CAC is serious about getting this thing passed, I would suggest ensuring that there is also a provision for a ribbon to denote the Girl Scout Gold Award. That's their equivalent to becoming an Eagle Scout, and if it makes it into the hands of National CP, recognizing the Boy Scouts without recognizing the Girl Scouts will probably get the idea shot down.

I heard of a ribbon proposal a few terms ago that originated at the Ohio Wing CAC, made it all the way up to and was passed by NCAC, and then it was rejected by NHQ because the proposal did not include an estimated cost. I would think that proposing an idea some would argue is sexist would have more grounds for rejection than a proposal with no cost estimation.
JACKIE M. BRISKI, Capt, CAP
VAWG Cadet Programs Team

...not all those who wander are lost...

sjtrupp

Quote from: Greg on February 15, 2005, 09:26:15 PM
Quote from: sjtrupp on February 15, 2005, 09:16:48 PM
A cadet only needs to fill out a CAPF 2A, requesting the Comunity Service Ribbon and use the Eagle Scout certificate as documentation.  Since the Eagle Scout requires more than 40 hours Community Service, it should be approved without a problem.

Don't you need 60 hrs for CAP's Community Service Ribbon?

Yes, you are correct.  60 hours are required for the ribbon.  I'm sure that any Eagle Scout recipient has completed over 60 hours of Community Service though.

elkorona

Quote from: Schmidty06 on February 15, 2005, 05:21:48 AM
But can't we also wear AF marksmanship ribbons if we qualify for them?  I myself wouldn't be a fan of an Eagle Scout ribbon.  If we did have one, we would have to have a ribbon for the highest achievement of every other backwards or forwards cadet or youth program in the country.

If you are a member of the armed services at the time and earned the award, then and only then can you wear it.
Lt Col Elliott Korona, CAP
Deputy Director, Civic Leadership Academy

MIKE

#14
Quote from: Gorfour20 on February 16, 2005, 10:16:48 PM
Quote from: Schmidty06 on February 15, 2005, 05:21:48 AM
But can't we also wear AF marksmanship ribbons if we qualify for them?  I myself wouldn't be a fan of an Eagle Scout ribbon.  If we did have one, we would have to have a ribbon for the highest achievement of every other backwards or forwards cadet or youth program in the country.

If you are a member of the armed services at the time and earned the award, then and only then can you wear it.

There is an obscure provision in an AFI which authorizes CAP members to participate in a handgun orientation course... Further, it authorizes the Expert Marksman ribbon for those who qualify.  If I can find it I'll post it.

Edit: Found it.

Quote from: AFI36-2226 26 FEBRUARY 20032.3. Handgun Orientation Training. Handgun orientation training may be conducted for United States
Air Force Academy (USAFA) Cadets, Reserve Officer Training Corps (ROTC) officer accessions, and
possibly Civil Air Patrol (CAP) personnel. This training consists of classroom instruction in general firearms
safety, basic operation, and marksmanship fundamentals. After completion of classroom training,
students participate in a live-fire session by completing phase II (evaluation) of the handgun Air Force
Qualification Course (AFQC). Trainees earn the Small Arms Expert Marksmanship Ribbon (SAEMR) if
they achieve an expert score. This program does not qualify an individual for armed duty. If qualification
is required, personnel must meet the full objectives and requirements in AFMAN 36-2227 for the handgun
AFQC training program.
Mike Johnston

ChrissyJean725

Quote from: Nathan on February 15, 2005, 09:58:21 PM
Well, it's an interesting idea, but what about Naval Sea Scouts? Shouldn't they get their own ribbon? Young Marines? Girl Scouts? McDonalds manager? Student of the week?

Something you need to think about.

I agree.  I'm a gold award recipient, which is basically the girl scout equivalent of the Eagle Scout.  If we make ribbons to denote every accomplishment, then a ribbon begins to lose it's meaning.

Pylon

Quote from: ChrissyJean725I agree.  I'm a gold award recipient, which is basically the girl scout equivalent of the Eagle Scout.  If we make ribbons to denote every accomplishment, then a ribbon begins to lose it's meaning.

Agreed.  Many other nations, like Britain and Canada, already think we hand out medals and ribbons way too much as it is.   ::)

Welcome to CAPTalk, by the way.   ;)   I'm sure you'll find a place to talk about almost everything here. 
Michael F. Kieloch, Maj, CAP

abysmal

While I am not certain about the ribbon issue, i do think itr bears noting that CAP DOES have an established relationship with BSA unlike all of the other organizations that have been discussed.

6-2. CAP POLICY FOR THE BOY SCOUTS OF AMERICA (BSA). CAP and the Venturing and Aviation Explorer divisions of the Boy Scouts of America have much in common. CAP encourages dual membership in both CAP and BSA as either an Aviation Exploring Post or Venturing Crew, with CAP being the chartered partner. By being the chartered partner, CAP is the basis for the union; therefore, members first belong to CAP. The existing CAP structure does not change and all members will conform to CAP standards and wear the CAP uniform.

a. Exploring is suited for squadrons that emphasize flying and aerospace education. Venturing encompasses high adventure programs and is suited for squadrons that emphasize camping and wilderness activities.

b. The benefits for dual chartering are:
1) The BSA organization includes approximately 4,000 professional staff and over 93,000 adult volunteers who would be available to provide assistance in the following areas:

a) Identification of potential youth members with an interest in aviation or search and rescue through a school career interest survey (where available).

b) Additional "working with youth" adult leader training opportunities.

2) Eligibility to participate in all Venturing activities upon becoming a Venturing crew, such as: scholarships and awards, the Explorer Olympics, air rifle competitions, fly -ins, an emergency preparedness program, use of local BSA camps and facilities and more.

c. The squadron commander should meet with representatives of the local BSA Council to discuss dual chartering. If the decision is made to dual charter, then the BSA representative will complete and submit the required BSA chartering documentation. After a squadron receives its charter, the next command echelon should be notified of the new status.

d. Dual chartered members are authorized to wear the Venturing Patch, or the Aviation Exploring Patch as appropriate, in place of the organizational emblem on the BDU uniform (see CAPM 39-1).

e. All CAP flying activities will be accomplished in accordance with CAPR 60-1, CAP Flight Management, and all CAP search and rescue activities will be accomplished in accordance with CAPR 60-3, CAP Emergency Services Training and Operational Missions.

f. A jointly chartered CAP Venturing Crew or Aviation Exploring Post will conduct all operations and activities under CAP regulations or clearly and unmistakably conduct itself under the auspices of the scouting program only. If the unit wishes to conduct any activity outside of, or restricted by CAP regulations, the unit commander will obtain Scout liability insurance protection for CAP and the members of the unit from the Scouting Council or Scouting National Headquarters before proceeding.

2LT Christopher M. Parrett
[red]Deputy Commander of Cadets, Cadet Programs Officer[/red]
London Bridge Composite Squadron 501
SWR-AZ-112,  Lake Havasu City, Arizona