Come on, guys, this isn't hard.

[NIN]

That is all...

[vorteks]

Except for the fact that it almost always is 

[NIN]

Except for the fact that it almost always is 

Except for formal events, visits to your state capitol, etc.

Plus, you know, CAPM 39-1.

I get that its a good "first uniform," but its not the "minimum uniform"

[OldGuy]

In the last 4 weeks I have worn the "corporate" uniform once, blues twice and ABUs once. Tonight I start the new year with the same cycle. Cheers!

[vorteks]

Except for the fact that it almost always is 

Except for formal events, visits to your state capitol, etc.

Plus, you know, CAPM 39-1.

I get that its a good "first uniform," but its not the "minimum uniform"

You're correct of course

[vorteks]

In the last 4 weeks I have worn the "corporate" uniform once, blues twice and ABUs once. Tonight I start the new year with the same cycle. Cheers!

There are many "corporate" uniforms. At least one for every occasion. So what you said doesn't really narrow it down much.

[darkmatter]

In the last 4 weeks I have worn the "corporate" uniform once, blues twice and ABUs once. Tonight I start the new year with the same cycle. Cheers!

There are many "corporate" uniforms. At least one for every occasion. So what you said doesn't really narrow it down much.

In a way it does make the corporate uniform the only one "I" need just depends on which corporate I need on that day

[etodd]

Except for formal events, visits to your state capitol, etc.

I leave those things for folks like you. I'm just a worker bee hanging out at the hive when I'm not flying. I leave the pomp and circumstance to others. I could get my little jobs done just fine in a tie dyed t-shirt, shorts and flip flops, while stepping on pop tops, before cruising back home.

Almost 2 1/2 years now. I've been to various SAREXs, various types of missions, competitions, events, etc. etc. acting as MS - MO - AP - MP - FRO, and never been required to wear anything other than the polo. Its all I know. Has the CAP logo and the MP wings on it embroidered from the factory, so I don't have to worry about all those pins and velcro patches.  Makes it easy to jump and run.   To each his own. This is just me.

[stillamarine]

Except for formal events, visits to your state capitol, etc.

I leave those things for folks like you. I'm just a worker bee hanging out at the hive when I'm not flying. I leave the pomp and circumstance to others. I could get my little jobs done just fine in a tie dyed t-shirt, shorts and flip flops, while stepping on pop tops, before cruising back home.

Almost 2 1/2 years now. I've been to various SAREXs, various types of missions, competitions, events, etc. etc. acting as MS - MO - AP - MP - FRO, and never been required to wear anything other than the polo. Its all I know. Has the CAP logo and the MP wings on it embroidered from the factory, so I don't have to worry about all those pins and velcro patches.  Makes it easy to jump and run.   To each his own. This is just me.

Doesn't change the fact that it does not meet the minimum required uniform per regulations. Plus there are PD events in your wing that requires more than the polo uniform.

[etodd]

Doesn't change the fact that it does not meet the minimum required uniform per regulations.

I have  it. Still in the plastic. Not sure after 2 1/2 years it fits, but yes, I have followed the regs.

Plus there are PD events in your wing that requires more than the polo uniform.

Haven't needed it in 2 1/2 years. Every event I've 'wanted' to attend I've been able to attend. I don't do the rubber chicken galas. I leave those things for folks like you.

[stillamarine]

Doesn't change the fact that it does not meet the minimum required uniform per regulations.

I have  it. Still in the plastic. Not sure after 2 1/2 years it fits, but yes, I have followed the regs.

Plus there are PD events in your wing that requires more than the polo uniform.

Haven't needed it in 2 1/2 years. Every event I've 'wanted' to attend I've been able to attend. I don't do the rubber chicken galas. I leave those things for folks like you.

Just depends. UCC, SLS, CLC, ICS 300/400 are all courses I've seen in the last couple years that have mandated no polos.

[OldGuy]

Doesn't change the fact that it does not meet the minimum required uniform per regulations.

I have  it. Still in the plastic. Not sure after 2 1/2 years it fits, but yes, I have followed the regs.

Plus there are PD events in your wing that requires more than the polo uniform.

Haven't needed it in 2 1/2 years. Every event I've 'wanted' to attend I've been able to attend. I don't do the rubber chicken galas. I leave those things for folks like you.

Just depends. UCC, SLS, CLC, ICS 300/400 are all courses I've seen in the last couple years that have mandated no polos.

UCC and SLS here allowed the polo - in fact a number of instructors wore same. So did I.

[darkmatter]

CLC also allows the polo and in extremely weird cases regular everyday clothes for those that take the online CLC and i know from personal experience the ICS300 and 400 i wore civilian cloths because that's what the emergence management instructor allowed us to wear.

[stillamarine]

I'm talking about his specific Wing. Nobody else's.

[CAP9907]

That is all...

For me, 97% of the time the polo IS the only uniform that I need. For most all else, the aviator shirt or civilian business casual is allowed. I send my regrets for the 0.05% of events where any more than that is required.

[Holding Pattern]

I made the mistake of buying the polo. Now it has become the most common uniform for me.

[PA Guy]

Oh no, not this again. It always turns into a chest thumping contest between those that love to thumb their nose and those that take it as a sacred task to change their minds. Grow up!

[etodd]

Oh no, not this again. It always turns into a chest thumping contest between those that love to thumb their nose and those that take it as a sacred task to change their minds. Grow up!

I'm a polo guy, but I don't "thumb my nose".  I always wear whats allowed ... and so far the polo has been allowed for everything I do.

I'm within regs. Plain and simple. Case closed.

So for those who hate the polo that much ... the ball is in their court to try and get the rules changed. Until such time ... why put up such a fuss? I'm within regs.

[etodd]

OK. I'll throw this personal info out there. I was never in the military. My grandfather was, uncles, and my father was. My father (passed away years ago) had half his back blown off in Korea by a mortar shell and I have his Purple Heart.

I'm not worthy of wearing anything that looks like a real military uniform. I don't feel right about it. I'm a civilian who has a tremendous respect for our soldiers. I'm not worthy. Its a very personal thing, and I don't expect anyone to understand it. Just the way it is 'for me'.

As long as regulations at events I attend say polo is OK ... then thats my choice.

[CAP9907]

Agreed, I wear the polo when appropriate and when authorized.... which is the vast majority of my CAP experience. If people do not like it, petition National to make us buy another uniform option. Until then, carry-on.

Oh no, not this again. It always turns into a chest thumping contest between those that love to thumb their nose and those that take it as a sacred task to change their minds. Grow up!

I'm a polo guy, but I don't "thumb my nose".  I always wear whats allowed ... and so far the polo has been allowed for everything I do.

I'm within regs. Plain and simple. Case closed.

So for those who hate the polo that much ... the ball is in their court to try and get the rules changed. Until such time ... why put up such a fuss? I'm within regs.

[PA Guy]

OK. I'll throw this personal info out there. I was never in the military. My grandfather was, uncles, and my father was. My father (passed away years ago) had half his back blown off in Korea by a mortar shell and I have his Purple Heart.

I'm not worthy of wearing anything that looks like a real military uniform. I don't feel right about it. I'm a civilian who has a tremendous respect for our soldiers. I'm not worthy. Its a very personal thing, and I don't expect anyone to understand it. Just the way it is 'for me'.

As long as regulations at events I attend say polo is OK ... then thats my choice.

If it is a personal thing that is your business. Why do you keep posting. I personally don't care. Come to meetings or whatever you do in your jammies. 

[Fubar]

Instead of constantly chiding us polo-only guys, why not change the rules to what you want? Because if you can't, then you need to accept we wear what we're allowed to wear, you wear what you're allowed to wear (hopefully - not all USAF style folks do) and move on.

Why do I think the polo is the only uniform I need? Because functionally it is. We have a rule that requires me, a volunteer, to waste money on a uniform I don't need, which certainly isn't wise for a volunteer organization.

Not once, ever have I been prevented from doing something in CAP, from missions, to training, to education, because I have a polo shirt. In fact more than once it's been the uniform I was told to show up in.

I have my reasons for preferring "Corporate Working Uniform" and I wear it properly. So you know what? Leave me alone. Is that so hard to do? If I was treated at the unit like you guys do here, I'd be gone. How's that for retention?

[Alaric]

Agreed, I wear the polo when appropriate and when authorized.... which is the vast majority of my CAP experience. If people do not like it, petition National to make us buy another uniform option. Until then, carry-on.

Oh no, not this again. It always turns into a chest thumping contest between those that love to thumb their nose and those that take it as a sacred task to change their minds. Grow up!

I'm a polo guy, but I don't "thumb my nose".  I always wear whats allowed ... and so far the polo has been allowed for everything I do.

I'm within regs. Plain and simple. Case closed.

So for those who hate the polo that much ... the ball is in their court to try and get the rules changed. Until such time ... why put up such a fuss? I'm within regs.

The rules are clear 39-1 denotes the minimum required uniform to be either blues or the white aviators.  Glad you haven't run into issues wearing your polo, the blues/aviators were the required UOD at RSC (NER), and NSC when I went.  They have also been required when instructing PD courses.  If that's not happening by you great.

[Fubar]

The rules are clear 39-1 denotes the minimum required uniform to be either blues or the white aviators.  Glad you haven't run into issues wearing your polo, the blues/aviators were the required UOD at RSC (NER), and NSC when I went.  They have also been required when instructing PD courses.  If that's not happening by you great.

It's also important to note that things like RSC and NSC are attended by a small percentage of our membership due to a number of reasons, such as the small percentage that stay in the organization long enough to progress to needing RSC, a lack of interest in the PD program, high expense of travel, and the inability to be away from work. There may be a very small number of people who would attend those courses if it wasn't for the uniform requirements (as in them being no-polo zones), but that's not something I've ever heard talked about.

[Geber]

I've only been a member a few months. I'm still waiting to get on the mailing list for the announcements that state what the uniform of the day is for particular meetings. (And I'm apt to ignore the instructions, and wear BDU instead of blues, if I'm going to be working on the radio antennas in the attic before the meeting.)

[A.Member]

That is all...

Concur!  :clap:

[vorteks]

http://gocivilairpatrol.com/how_to_join/adults_faq/

Do I have to wear a uniform?
Senior members may be required to wear a uniform during some activities - such as when flying in CAP aircraft. Senior members may wear the USAF style blue uniform or one of the distinctive CAP uniforms.  However, some members choose to serve quietly without wearing a uniform.

I've never been (or invited) to a CAP activity that called for the "minimum required uniform" where civvies wouldn't have been fine.

I'd like to know what reg says a uniform is required for anything other than flying or working with cadets- in which cases the golf shirt certainly qualifies.

Anyway there must be hundreds of CAP adults wearing the USAF uniforms against regs and never called out on by anyone in charge so it kinda makes this whole subject feel.......unserious

[Fubar]

Anyway there must be hundreds of CAP adults wearing the USAF uniforms against regs and never called out on by anyone in charge so it kinda makes this whole subject feel.......unserious

Exactly. Instead of coming after people like me who wear an authorized uniform properly and appropriately, how about focusing all that disdain on those who are willfully breaking the rules?

[etodd]

If it is a personal thing that is your business. Why do you keep posting. 

Because folks like the one who started this thread ... start these threads with silly memes. Folks that put uniforms and appearances ahead of our missions. I get my job done. And always within regs.

[TheSkyHornet]

Most people who purchase just the CAP polo, and have worn it for at least a year or more, likely don't have any intention at attending something outside of their home unit. That, or they have never read the regulation, and purchased what someone at their unit told them "they needed" or what they "should get."

Not to stir up that discussion but doesn't this go back to the question as to why Blues (or equivalent) are the minimum required uniform and not a field/work duty uniform? More work would expected to be conducted in the polo and fatigues than in service dress, unless you're in an admin office or career fairs every week.

[OldGuy]

Most people who purchase just the CAP polo, and have worn it for at least a year or more, likely don't have any intention at attending something outside of their home unit. That, or they have never read the regulation, and purchased what someone at their unit told them "they needed" or what they "should get."

Not to stir up that discussion but doesn't this go back to the question as to why Blues (or equivalent) are the minimum required uniform and not a field/work duty uniform? More work would expected to be conducted in the polo and fatigues than in service dress, unless you're in an admin office or career fairs every week.

What I was told (and this came from an AF vet / CAP member) was until 911 in both USAF daily wear and CAP, BDU/ABU was for field work, blues for office. Until 911. Then it was "off with the toga and on with the sagum" and we have remained in battle dress ever since.

[abdsp51]

[quote author=TheSkyHornet link=topic=22761.msg411016#msg411016 date=1516138548

What I was told (and this came from an AF vet / CAP member) was until 911 in both USAF daily wear and CAP, BDU/ABU was for field work, blues for office. Until 911. Then it was "off with the toga and on with the sagum" and we have remained in battle dress ever since.

Maybe at a Hq base but hardly the case.  Ill say this again. If you cant be trusted to have the min uniform you cant be trusted with a cessna or bigger things

[etodd]

Ill say this again. If you cant be trusted to have the min uniform you cant be trusted with a cessna or bigger things

And I'll say it again. I HAVE the minimum uniform (still in the plastic in the closet) but I've stayed within regs in every event I've attended wearing the polo. I've got something like 140 hours or more as pilot in the CAP Cessna's while wearing the polo that conforms to regulation.

So its in VERY BAD FORM for you to be talking of trust when I am always conforming to the regs.

[abdsp51]

Ill say this again. If you cant be trusted to have the min uniform you cant be trusted with a cessna or bigger things

And I'll say it again. I HAVE the minimum uniform (still in the plastic in the closet) but I've stayed within regs in every event I've attended wearing the polo. I've got something like 140 hours or more as pilot in the CAP Cessna's while wearing the polo that conforms to regulation.

So its in VERY BAD FORM for you to be talking of trust when I am always conforming to the regs.

You really want to start? Did i mention you by name or at all.   Grow up snowflake and get a thicker skin.

[Briank]

...off to read the regs.  I know I read them when I first joined, but I either missed or forgot about a minimum required set of uniforms.  3 years in and the only uniform I've ever needed is the polo corporate (I've got 2 of them now, both long AND short sleeve woooo!).  I do have a flight suit too, but other than test fitting it I've never been able to wear it, so it just rides a hangar in my closet.  Looks nice there, hope to be able to wear it for real some day...

[NIN]

OK, guys, take a step back. Breathe.

The reason I bring this up isn't to divide.  I have the CAP Working Uniform and I love wearing it when appropriate.

(A year or so back, at one of our wing meetings, everybody in the room was wearing the polo. It was a neat surprise)

My point in posting this was two fold:

1) CAP's minimum uniform, technically, is NOT the Working Uniform. I get that "the polo is all I ever needed." Yep, tracking. But its not always the most appropriate uniform for all circumstances.  And folks doing recruiting and onboarding and initial training for new senior members are doing our membership a disservice by saying "this is all you'll ever need."  As I suggested in my OP, its a great *first* uniform to get you in the plane and participating.  But our members need to be aware, and trained, that the polo shirt is not the ONLY uniform combination.

2) There are circumstances, as I alluded to in 1) above, where the Working Uniform is not the most appropriate uniform for the activity at hand.  You'd no sooner show up in blues or aviator whites to fill sandbags (I've seen it.. not pretty) than you would wear a flight suit to the banquet at a Wing Conference.  Just like you'd no sooner wear your only pair of (unfortunately grubby) Levis and a clean shirt to your nephew's wedding, or a sport coat and slacks for range clean up day.

Now, there are people who will say "Oh, I don't bother with such high-falutin' stuff as to need the aviator shirt combo."

Yet at the same time, we have formal events where we promote our members, laud and recognize their accomplishments. Events where the level of formality is much higher than a "polo shirt and grey tactical pants." Are you not going to go to an event like that?

My larger point is that when the invitation for a "fairly formal" events is sent out and says "Uniform is USAF-style Class B or Class A, or CAP Corporate Dress or the Aviator Shirt combo, or appropriate civilian attire" we get back "Can I wear my polo shirt?"

The answer is NO.  I don't have a single beef with a pilot who's been in CAP less than a year and so far only has the polo shirt combo arriving at Wing Conference in a sport coat and slacks, if thats what he's got.

If you're going to an event to support the members of your squadron who are getting awards or you yourself are getting awards, DRESS APPROPRIATELY.  A blue open-collar polo shirt with a pair of grey 5.11s is not in any way equivalent to the way the presenter is dressed in the blazer combo or Class As or,in the case of a member of Congress, a local legislator, or the Mayor, in a civilian suit.  Wear a coat. Wear a tie.  Look like you belong there, in the moment, and in a manner keeping with the gravitas of the event.

[NIN]

What I was told (and this came from an AF vet / CAP member) was until 911 in both USAF daily wear and CAP, BDU/ABU was for field work, blues for office. Until 911. Then it was "off with the toga and on with the sagum" and we have remained in battle dress ever since.

No just the USAF.  The majority of our Armed Forces, post 9/11, went to "combat uniforms" all the time.  The Air Force, as a matter of fact, got a lot of flak from their brother and sister services because the AF just kind of kept on "business as usual" for a long time after that.

and a few years back, tried to get back to their "the business men of the DOD" roots with "Blues Mondays."

As the gentleman who was my chief of staff when I was in the Army Cadets (a Navy guy, no less) used to lament: "The Army will get married and buried in ACUs if they thought they could get away with it."

My mentor as a Phase IV cadet and as a young senior was a 20+ year full-time Air Guard guy, and he wore blues to work every day. That was his job, he had no need for BDUs and rifle in his particular billet. He used to tell us "Fatigues is a working uniform, meant to be worn while working, getting dirty, that kind of thing.  Blues is your everyday wear apart from that."

[stillamarine]

What I was told (and this came from an AF vet / CAP member) was until 911 in both USAF daily wear and CAP, BDU/ABU was for field work, blues for office. Until 911. Then it was "off with the toga and on with the sagum" and we have remained in battle dress ever since.

No just the USAF.  The majority of our Armed Forces, post 9/11, went to "combat uniforms" all the time.  The Air Force, as a matter of fact, got a lot of flak from their brother and sister services because the AF just kind of kept on "business as usual" for a long time after that.

and a few years back, tried to get back to their "the business men of the DOD" roots with "Blues Mondays."

As the gentleman who was my chief of staff when I was in the Army Cadets (a Navy guy, no less) used to lament: "The Army will get married and buried in ACUs if they thought they could get away with it."

My mentor as a Phase IV cadet and as a young senior was a 20+ year full-time Air Guard guy, and he wore blues to work every day. That was his job, he had no need for BDUs and rifle in his particular billet. He used to tell us "Fatigues is a working uniform, meant to be worn while working, getting dirty, that kind of thing.  Blues is your everyday wear apart from that."

The vast majority of the Marine Corps wore utilities everyday prior to 9/11. At LeJeune we had Chuck Fridays, where we had to wear Service Charlies on Fridays. That sucked. Luckily I was in a deployable unit and we were exempt from that most of the time. There were some shops where I always saw them in Chucks.

[etodd]

We have formal events where we promote our members, laud and recognize their accomplishments. Events where the level of formality is much higher than a "polo shirt and grey tactical pants." Are you not going to go to an event like that?

I answered that on page one. No, I don't attend the rubber chicken dinners where folks do 'photos ops' getting their awards, etc.  Great for them and those who enjoy it.  Its a wonderful thing. I'm just a little worker bee, happy to stay home and work while others do the formal affairs.  They are following uniform code at the banquet, and I'm following uniform code back at the airplane hangar.  Its all good, all within regs, ... so no reason to jump on us folks that don't wear the dress blues. 

Everyone seems to be following the regs, so this whole thread is meaningless ... until such time uniform regs are changed by Hdqs. 

[grunt82abn]

OK. I'll throw this personal info out there. I was never in the military. My grandfather was, uncles, and my father was. My father (passed away years ago) had half his back blown off in Korea by a mortar shell and I have his Purple Heart.

I'm not worthy of wearing anything that looks like a real military uniform. I don't feel right about it. I'm a civilian who has a tremendous respect for our soldiers. I'm not worthy. Its a very personal thing, and I don't expect anyone to understand it. Just the way it is 'for me'.

As long as regulations at events I attend say polo is OK ... then thats my choice.

I understand completely!


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[ZigZag911]

I'm a big baseball fan.

Major League Baseball requires the manager and coaches to wear uniforms...the only professional sport that does, as far as I know.

Seems a little silly, but then again, why does someone need a tuxedo to wait on tables in an upscale restaurant or play an instrument in a symphony orchestra?

Organizations have customs and traditions, in part, to build group cohesion.

The regs call for all senior members, at minimum, to own  a set of gray & whites.

I'm not clear on what the big deal is against wearing the darn things occasionally, like at award ceremonies, change of command and such.

That is all part and parcel of CAP...if you choose never, ever to participate in anything but your own limited area of interest, you are missing the scope of the experience, which includes getting to know some dedicated, interesting people.

Your choice, I guess, but it's a shame to see folks deliberately isolating themselves from the rest of the membership.

[etodd]

Your choice, I guess, but it's a shame to see folks deliberately isolating themselves from the rest of the membership.

From SAREXs and more, I work with hundreds of CAP members, both Seniors and Cadets. No isolation here.

But, to each his own. The diversity of personality types and varied interests I feel sure is a good thing in CAP.

There is a place in the Squadron for everyone. 

[eehite]

This thread strikes me as a perfect summary of why CapTalk is dead. Three pages in and nobody has learned anything, nobody has convinced anyone, and everyone is steamed.

[Nick]

What's even more concerning is the three pages of blatant attitude that it's acceptable to disregard a minimum standard, established for all members, that they agreed to when they signed their membership application.


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[Pace]

No new commentary in several pages. There's a minimum uniform (blues or aviator). You have to wear an appropriate uniform or civilian equivalent to any event you attend. Not everyone goes to events that require the minimum uniform to be worn. I think that sums this up.


We're done here. *lock*