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CAP Talk  |  General Discussion  |  Uniforms & Awards  |  Topic: Air Force doing away with weight standards?
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Author Topic: Air Force doing away with weight standards?  (Read 5806 times)
etodd
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 853

« Reply #80 on: October 12, 2017, 12:24:50 PM »


-- people see a military uniform and think we're in the military.


Happens to Cadets all the time. People usually think they are high school ROTC.
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MS - MO - AP - MP
CAPLTC
Member

Posts: 63
Unit: MER

« Reply #81 on: October 12, 2017, 07:17:19 PM »

This is a note I am publishing to my profile on Facebook. But before I pull the trigger, I'd like to give this a review with my fellow CAPTalkers:


Quote
With the highly polarized political climate that has emerged since the 2016 presidential election some have mistakenly thought I am a serving active duty officer in our Armed Forces. Allow me to thoroughly explain what my status is as a member of Civil Air Patrol:
 
I am a civilian, volunteer, dues-paying member of the Civil Air Patrol (CAP). Including my service as a cadet, I have been a member, not counting several breaks in membership, for over 15 years. DON’T call me a ‘poseur’, a ‘wannabe’, or an ‘impostor’. I did serve on active duty in the enlisted ranks of the U.S. Air Force over thirty years ago, and this is my way to give back to the community as a veteran. My social media profiles do identify me as a member of Civil Air Patrol. And certain social media photo albums show me wearing the Civil Air Patrol uniform.
 
We are the U.S. Air Force’s volunteer civilian auxiliary only when activated and operating on authorized missions issued by the U.S. Air Force. The rest of the time, Civil Air Patrol is a private, non-profit corporation chartered by Congress. We were founded in 1941, well before the U.S. Air Force separated from the U.S. Army and became its own military service in 1947. The Secretary of the Air Force (SECAF) may use the services of CAP to fulfill the noncombat programs and missions of the Air Force.
 
We wear the U.S. Air Force uniform with distinctive Civil Air Patrol insignia to distinguish ourselves from our Air Force counterparts ‘at low light and at a distance’. If we do not meet CAP weight and grooming standards for wear of the Air Force-style uniform, we are restricted to wearing a distinctive corporate-style uniform. Our uniform regulations prohibit the wear of the CAP Air Force-style and corporate uniforms in the following situations (reference CAP Manual 39-1):
 
·         While engaged in private employment. (Implies official sponsorship.)
·         Under any circumstance that would tend to bring discredit or reproach upon the uniform.
·         More than one hour after conclusion of CAP meetings or activities. (Travel time to and from activities excepted.)
·         When participating in activities such as public speeches, interviews, picket lines, marches, rallies, or in any public demonstration not approved by the U.S. Air Force. (Wearing the uniform may imply sanction of the cause for which the demonstration or activity is conducted.)
·         At any meeting of any prohibited groups. (Fascist, totalitarian, communist, subversive, etc. as determined by the U.S. Attorney General.)
·         In a foreign country, unless specifically authorized.
 
Our officer and enlisted rank structure is similar to that of the U.S. military and we wear the same grade insignia, though our officer grades top off at Major General. Many members – including myself – already hold the highest rank an ordinary member can attain: lieutenant colonel. Promotion to the exalted ranks of colonel, brigadier or major general is upon appointment to wing commander, region commander, national vice commander and national commander, respectively. Certain national staff officers are also appointed as colonels. Upon successful completion of one’s term of office and approval by the CAP Command Council (for colonels) and the CAP Board of Governors (for brigadier and major generals) does the grade become permanent, otherwise they revert to the last permanent grade attained (for most of us, it’s lieutenant colonel).
 
I am NOT a commissioned military officer; we are appointed to the rank according to internal CAP regulations. In fact, our rank insignia actually denotes the level of CAP professional development completed. Completion of professional development requirements and time-in-grade is what makes us eligible for promotion to the next higher rank, up to lieutenant colonel.
 
Civil Air Patrol members are NOT subject to the Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ). We are subject to our own internal regulations. Only if we accompanied the Air Force into a combat zone and declared a cobelligerent (and that hasn’t happened since World War II) would we be subject to military justice. I have ZERO military authority over other members of our Armed Forces. In fact, service members are not required to salute us, though we give and return salutes as a matter of military courtesy. Referencing Air Force Instruction (AFI) 10-2701:
 
“CAP is not a military service, its members are not subject to the Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ) and CAP membership does not confer upon an individual any of the rights, privileges, prerogatives or benefits of military personnel, active, reserve, or retired. Although CAP is not a military service, it uses an Air Force-style grade structure and its members may wear Air Force-style uniforms when authorized, but Air Force protocol, customs and courtesies do not apply to CAP members.”
 
Some have implied or outright accused me of ‘violating military law’ by ‘badmouthing the Commander-in-Chief’. Ahem… WHAT PART OF ‘NOT SUBJECT TO THE UCMJ’ DID YOU NOT READ ABOVE? Article 88 of the UCMJ (Contempt Towards Officials) does NOT apply to me. The President of the United States has NO military authority over me nor is he in the Civil Air Patrol chain of command. My constitutional rights as a private citizen of the United States of America protect my right to free speech and expression; conversely, I am aware that the expression of these rights carry responsibilities and may be opposed by others.
 
You will NOT see me wearing the Civil Air Patrol uniform participating in a political demonstration. You will NOT see me using my rank to usurp military authority or troll military members to make them salute me. And you will NOT see me wearing the CAP uniform while expressing my personal political beliefs, which may be contrary to others.
 
Civil Air Patrol’s core values are ‘Integrity, Volunteer Service, Excellence and Respect’, reflecting the U.S. Air Force’s core values of ‘Integrity First, Service before Self and Excellence in All We Do’ to our status as the volunteer civilian auxiliary of the U.S. Air Force.
 
I hope this clears up any misunderstandings you may have heard about my status as an officer in the Civil Air Patrol.

TL/DR
Wow...
If you have to post a legal disclaimer THAT long, you should reconsider your priorities in life.



[edited to fix the color and text size]
« Last Edit: October 12, 2017, 09:18:19 PM by SarDragon » Logged
"Find the enemy that wants to end this experiment (in American democracy) and kill every one of them until they’re so sick of the killing that they leave us and our freedoms intact." -- SECDEF Mattis
AlphaSigOU
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 2,151
Unit: PCR-NV-069

The Kwaj Drafter!
« Reply #82 on: October 12, 2017, 09:15:23 PM »

For us, a paragraph or two is fine, for outsiders, better to thoroughly 'explainify'.
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Lt Col Charles E. (Chuck) Corway, CAP
Gill Robb Wilson Award (#2901 - 2011)
Amelia Earhart Award (#1257 - 1982) - C/Major (retired)
Billy Mitchell Award (#2375 - 1981)
Administrative/Personnel/Professional Development Officer
Nellis Composite Squadron (PCR-NV-069)
KJ6GHO - NAR 45040
kwe1009
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 740

« Reply #83 on: October 12, 2017, 09:18:26 PM »




[redacted because I wasn't going to fix it a second time]


TL/DR
Wow...
If you have to post a legal disclaimer THAT long, you should reconsider your priorities in life.

Yea, I really don't see the point in that either. 


[edited to get rid of the horrid colors]
« Last Edit: October 12, 2017, 09:35:52 PM by SarDragon » Logged
AlphaSigOU
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 2,151
Unit: PCR-NV-069

The Kwaj Drafter!
« Reply #84 on: October 13, 2017, 01:46:18 AM »

To each his own...

Logged
Lt Col Charles E. (Chuck) Corway, CAP
Gill Robb Wilson Award (#2901 - 2011)
Amelia Earhart Award (#1257 - 1982) - C/Major (retired)
Billy Mitchell Award (#2375 - 1981)
Administrative/Personnel/Professional Development Officer
Nellis Composite Squadron (PCR-NV-069)
KJ6GHO - NAR 45040
etodd
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 853

« Reply #85 on: October 13, 2017, 02:00:02 PM »

This is a note I am publishing to my profile on Facebook. But before I pull the trigger, I'd like to give this a review with my fellow CAPTalkers:


Quote
With the highly polarized political climate that has emerged since the 2016 presidential election some have mistakenly thought I am a serving active duty officer in our Armed Forces. Allow me to thoroughly explain what my status is as a member of Civil Air Patrol:
 
I am a civilian, volunteer, dues-paying member of the Civil Air Patrol (CAP). Including my service as a cadet, I have been a member, not counting several breaks in membership, for over 15 years. DON’T call me a ‘poseur’, a ‘wannabe’, or an ‘impostor’. I did serve on active duty in the enlisted ranks of the U.S. Air Force over thirty years ago, and this is my way to give back to the community as a veteran. My social media profiles do identify me as a member of Civil Air Patrol. And certain social media photo albums show me wearing the Civil Air Patrol uniform.
 
We are the U.S. Air Force’s volunteer civilian auxiliary only when activated and operating on authorized missions issued by the U.S. Air Force. The rest of the time, Civil Air Patrol is a private, non-profit corporation chartered by Congress. We were founded in 1941, well before the U.S. Air Force separated from the U.S. Army and became its own military service in 1947. The Secretary of the Air Force (SECAF) may use the services of CAP to fulfill the noncombat programs and missions of the Air Force.
 
We wear the U.S. Air Force uniform with distinctive Civil Air Patrol insignia to distinguish ourselves from our Air Force counterparts ‘at low light and at a distance’. If we do not meet CAP weight and grooming standards for wear of the Air Force-style uniform, we are restricted to wearing a distinctive corporate-style uniform. Our uniform regulations prohibit the wear of the CAP Air Force-style and corporate uniforms in the following situations (reference CAP Manual 39-1):
 
·         While engaged in private employment. (Implies official sponsorship.)
·         Under any circumstance that would tend to bring discredit or reproach upon the uniform.
·         More than one hour after conclusion of CAP meetings or activities. (Travel time to and from activities excepted.)
·         When participating in activities such as public speeches, interviews, picket lines, marches, rallies, or in any public demonstration not approved by the U.S. Air Force. (Wearing the uniform may imply sanction of the cause for which the demonstration or activity is conducted.)
·         At any meeting of any prohibited groups. (Fascist, totalitarian, communist, subversive, etc. as determined by the U.S. Attorney General.)
·         In a foreign country, unless specifically authorized.
 
Our officer and enlisted rank structure is similar to that of the U.S. military and we wear the same grade insignia, though our officer grades top off at Major General. Many members – including myself – already hold the highest rank an ordinary member can attain: lieutenant colonel. Promotion to the exalted ranks of colonel, brigadier or major general is upon appointment to wing commander, region commander, national vice commander and national commander, respectively. Certain national staff officers are also appointed as colonels. Upon successful completion of one’s term of office and approval by the CAP Command Council (for colonels) and the CAP Board of Governors (for brigadier and major generals) does the grade become permanent, otherwise they revert to the last permanent grade attained (for most of us, it’s lieutenant colonel).
 
I am NOT a commissioned military officer; we are appointed to the rank according to internal CAP regulations. In fact, our rank insignia actually denotes the level of CAP professional development completed. Completion of professional development requirements and time-in-grade is what makes us eligible for promotion to the next higher rank, up to lieutenant colonel.
 
Civil Air Patrol members are NOT subject to the Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ). We are subject to our own internal regulations. Only if we accompanied the Air Force into a combat zone and declared a cobelligerent (and that hasn’t happened since World War II) would we be subject to military justice. I have ZERO military authority over other members of our Armed Forces. In fact, service members are not required to salute us, though we give and return salutes as a matter of military courtesy. Referencing Air Force Instruction (AFI) 10-2701:
 
“CAP is not a military service, its members are not subject to the Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ) and CAP membership does not confer upon an individual any of the rights, privileges, prerogatives or benefits of military personnel, active, reserve, or retired. Although CAP is not a military service, it uses an Air Force-style grade structure and its members may wear Air Force-style uniforms when authorized, but Air Force protocol, customs and courtesies do not apply to CAP members.”
 
Some have implied or outright accused me of ‘violating military law’ by ‘badmouthing the Commander-in-Chief’. Ahem… WHAT PART OF ‘NOT SUBJECT TO THE UCMJ’ DID YOU NOT READ ABOVE? Article 88 of the UCMJ (Contempt Towards Officials) does NOT apply to me. The President of the United States has NO military authority over me nor is he in the Civil Air Patrol chain of command. My constitutional rights as a private citizen of the United States of America protect my right to free speech and expression; conversely, I am aware that the expression of these rights carry responsibilities and may be opposed by others.
 
You will NOT see me wearing the Civil Air Patrol uniform participating in a political demonstration. You will NOT see me using my rank to usurp military authority or troll military members to make them salute me. And you will NOT see me wearing the CAP uniform while expressing my personal political beliefs, which may be contrary to others.
 
Civil Air Patrol’s core values are ‘Integrity, Volunteer Service, Excellence and Respect’, reflecting the U.S. Air Force’s core values of ‘Integrity First, Service before Self and Excellence in All We Do’ to our status as the volunteer civilian auxiliary of the U.S. Air Force.
 
I hope this clears up any misunderstandings you may have heard about my status as an officer in the Civil Air Patrol.


^^^^ As soon as they see how long and detailed it is .... None will read it. Maybe one in a thousand.  Most folks skim FB posts.

Unless all of your friends are this deeply into this stuff and like to check out all the fine details. But I seriously doubt its the case.
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MS - MO - AP - MP
Panther
Recruit

Posts: 11

« Reply #86 on: October 25, 2017, 11:29:39 PM »

Let me make something VERY clear. Attending a service academy, regardless of status as an inter collegiate athlete, is in no way shape or form a "free education." If your son did indeed graduate from USAFA, it seems you chose not to pay any attention to the goings on there. It is incredibly disrespectful to try to shame someone you don't know at all. Realistically, where else would you have put the few pennies that you paid to USAFA in taxes?
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MHC5096
Forum Regular

Posts: 152
Unit: NY-388

« Reply #87 on: October 26, 2017, 07:17:37 AM »


-- people see a military uniform and think we're in the military.


Happens to Cadets all the time. People usually think they are high school ROTC.

Happens to JROTC cadets as well. My senior year of high school I was in my NJROTC service dress uniform in a store with my mother after she picked me up from an event. A woman in the store asked her where her "husband" was stationed.
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M. H. Crary, Lieutenant Colonel, CAP

CAP - Lt Col (1983-Present) | USNR - QM2 (1989-1995) | VTANG - MSgt (1995-2009) | USAFR - MSgt (2009-2011) | CGAUX - BA/ADSO/FSO (2011-Present)
TheSkyHornet
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 884

« Reply #88 on: October 27, 2017, 10:00:18 AM »

For a moment, I glanced past that ginormous quote above and was like "Oh, God, I hope I didn't write that......whew. That was a close one."

Let me make something VERY clear. Attending a service academy, regardless of status as an inter collegiate athlete, is in no way shape or form a "free education." If your son did indeed graduate from USAFA, it seems you chose not to pay any attention to the goings on there. It is incredibly disrespectful to try to shame someone you don't know at all. Realistically, where else would you have put the few pennies that you paid to USAFA in taxes?

Love this.
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CAP Talk  |  General Discussion  |  Uniforms & Awards  |  Topic: Air Force doing away with weight standards?
 


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