Forecast of Iowa Wing.

[RiverAux]

I never said that EVERY squadron commander is cut out to be a Wing Commander, but I wouldn't want a Wing Commander who hadn't served in that role. 

Why?  If you've never been a squadron commander you just don't know what its like trying to build a unit, train them, etc. all the while dealing with crazy mandates coming down at you from Wing Staff and Wing Commander.  You need to know what thats like before trying to be the one that sends down the crazy mandates -- hopefully it keeps you somewhat realistic. 

[RogueLeader]

there were four applicants, two of them have served as squadron commanders

"The hard Way"

and what is that

Not by getting it by being appointed to Legislative Liaison.  At the August  2006 WTA, Critelli specifically stated that he did not earn his rank, like us Company Grade Officers did.  That said, he did complete the PD levels equating his rank after the fact, which does speak highly about his devotion to bettering himself.

[RogueLeader]

Please note that while I do not really care for Col Critelli, I DO respect him for what he has done for the wing.

[isuhawkeye]

Wow, 

So much hate.  I finally sat down and read some of the recent blog articles running around about the Iowa wing. 

I have been prepared to support any of the candidates for wing commander, and I am amazed at what is going around.  I think I will take a little vacation from the forums before I get really wrapped up in this mess.  Enjoy

[mikeylikey]

 

[NEBoom]

Hayden claims he joined in March, 2003. 
<snip>

Hayden is himself no longer a member of CAP (nor, given his behavior, should he be, IMHO).  So why do we care about his opinions or what he claims?

As for what's going on in Iowa, I'd encourage anyone who cares about it to contact them directly and ask them all the questions you want.  I did so about a year ago and found them all very accommodating (my first meeting with them lasted six hours and was a bit like drinking from a fire hose!)  Don't rely on rumors, gossip, or second/thirdhand information; find out what's going on there direct from the source.  Visit one of their WTAs if you can.  I've been about three times now and it's been worth the trip every time.

Are there things they're doing in Iowa that I don't agree with?  Yes.  Will what they're doing work in every wing?  No.  But on the whole they're making huge strides in improving our organization.  We should all take a serious look. 

If you implement the kinds of change they are in Iowa, you are going to upset people.  Some of the closed-mindedness I've encountered when discussing Iowa's system amazes me (or just leaves me shaking my head).  Everything from the "NIH (not invented here)" kind of resistance to the kind of smears and personal attacks that we're seeing from Hayden presently.  To take such a hardline opinion against what Iowa wing is doing is to turn a blind eye on some very good work that's been done by a very few hard working people.  For the greater CAP, it's a crying shame more people won't look objectively at it and take from it what they can use for themselves.

[NEBoom]

Wow, 

So much hate.  I finally sat down and read some of the recent blog articles running around about the Iowa wing. 

I have been prepared to support any of the candidates for wing commander, and I am amazed at what is going around.  I think I will take a little vacation from the forums before I get really wrapped up in this mess.  Enjoy

Yeah, one has to do that from time to time.  Good luck on the Mission Staff School.

[RogueLeader]

Wow, 

So much hate.  I finally sat down and read some of the recent blog articles running around about the Iowa wing. 

I have been prepared to support any of the candidates for wing commander, and I am amazed at what is going around.  I think I will take a little vacation from the forums before I get really wrapped up in this mess.  Enjoy

I don't hate him, or even TP for that matter.  That does not mean I agree with their policies.  I didn't agree when Lt. Col Scheitzach was replaced, but I still supported his replacement.  I'm not saying that I will not support Critelli as Wing CC.  I would if I were there.  As you can tell from my posts that I really do want to make things work in a better way.  I am by no means a "Yes Man."  Just because I do not like a man, that does not mean I can not- or will not- work with him to get the job done.  That is all I'm saying.

[RogueLeader]

Hayden claims he joined in March, 2003. 
<snip>

Hayden is himself no longer a member of CAP (nor, given his behavior, should he be, IMHO).  So why do we care about his opinions or what he claims?

As for what's going on in Iowa, I'd encourage anyone who cares about it to contact them directly and ask them all the questions you want.  I did so about a year ago and found them all very accommodating (my first meeting with them lasted six hours and was a bit like drinking from a fire hose!)  Don't rely on rumors, gossip, or second/thirdhand information; find out what's going on there direct from the source.  Visit one of their WTAs if you can.  I've been about three times now and it's been worth the trip every time.

Are there things they're doing in Iowa that I don't agree with?  Yes.  Will what they're doing work in every wing?  No.  But on the whole they're making huge strides in improving our organization.  We should all take a serious look. 

If you implement the kinds of change they are in Iowa, you are going to upset people.  Some of the closed-mindedness I've encountered when discussing Iowa's system amazes me (or just leaves me shaking my head).  Everything from the "NIH (not invented here)" kind of resistance to the kind of smears and personal attacks that we're seeing from Hayden presently.  To take such a hardline opinion against what Iowa wing is doing is to turn a blind eye on some very good work that's been done by a very few hard working people.  For the greater CAP, it's a crying shame more people won't look objectively at it and take from it what they can use for themselves.

Agreed.  well spoken Col.

[ZigZag911]

Without getting into the pros & cons of the general discussion at hand, I would take issue with the characterization of wing chief of staff or vice commander as 'staff' positions. The officers fulfilling these roles are the commander's immediate aides, and  have authority delegated to them by regulation as well as by their commander.

While it does not substitute for the immediate grass roots experience of commanding a squadron, either position involves a broader degree of responsibility and complexity than command of even the largest, most active squadron.

Both jobs constitute command experience at a senior level.

[mikeylikey]

^ Really?  I would disagree.  Perhaps I have only met individuals in those positions that are empty uniforms, your experience may be different than mine.  Usually vice and CoS are the Wing Kings buddies.  Only there to fulfill staff TIG, or at the least to be YES MEN or YES WOMEN.

Seriously the CoS does what?  It is the Wing Staff that carries out the Wing Commanders wishes. 

Commanding a Squadron or Group is much more involved than being Assistant to the Wing Commander.

[sparks]

Ray Hayden's status doesn't change the facts that many of his allegations have proven true. Whether you like him or not his sources have provided the "dirt" about CAP leadership which needed to be exposed. If his Blog can help bring pressure to bear on those that need to be removed I'm all for it.

[RogueLeader]

Seriously the CoS does what?  It is the Wing Staff that carries out the Wing Commanders wishes. 

Part of the CoS's job is to find high quality people to fill Staff positions, as well as fulfill any need for Project Officers as needed.  The CoS also helps screen out what really needs the CC's attention and what can be handled by a lower echelon.

[RiverAux]

I wouldn't say that the CoS position is unimportant but I've seen a Wing get along just fine without one and also get along without one who really did much of anything.  Get a good person in there and there is some potential for useful activity, just like any staff job.  Nevertheless, it is in no way comparable to squadron or group command, especially when the person has not been in CAP long enough to wear out their first uniform. 

[RogueLeader]

Ray Hayden's status doesn't change the facts that many of his allegations have proven true. Whether you like him or not his sources have provided the "dirt" about CAP leadership which needed to be exposed. If his Blog can help bring pressure to bear on those that need to be removed I'm all for it.

For my experience and knowledge of Critelli, what he calls for is unnecessary.  Are there things that I do not know about Critelli?  Yes.  Do I trust him to do well as IAWG/CC?  Yes.

As far as RH goes, I'm sorry to hear what happened to him, but he has shown to be completely unprofessional- from his time in CAP and in his so-called "journalism."  His very report of CAP activities causes doubt about his intentions.  Most everybody here knows that if RH says Critelli is bad, then most know he is very good.  The best bet is to ask the people who know him better.  I am not an expert w/ Critelli, what I posted is what I have experienced with him.

[RogueLeader]

I wouldn't say that the CoS position is unimportant but I've seen a Wing get along just fine without one and also get along without one who really did much of anything.  Get a good person in there and there is some potential for useful activity, just like any staff job.

Col. Critelli did a fine job of getting the right people into the right slots, and stuff started happening.  I wish that all wings was as dedicated as he is to improving the wing.

Nevertheless, it is in no way comparable to squadron or group command, especially when the person has not been in CAP long enough to wear out their first uniform. 

Agreed, but it seems that the Region/CC thought otherwise.

[NEBoom]

Ray Hayden's status doesn't change the facts that many of his allegations have proven true. Whether you like him or not his sources have provided the "dirt" about CAP leadership which needed to be exposed. If his Blog can help bring pressure to bear on those that need to be removed I'm all for it.

To what end?

Sorry, but I fail to follow the logic that says we should allow a non-member to continue to do damage to our organization.  And at this point that's really all that's left.  Persuing his own personal vengeance without regard to what it does to the organization as a whole.  There comes a time when it just has to stop.

And exactly who is Ray Hayden to be arbitrarily determining who "needs to be removed" around here anyway?  That kind of power drunk arrogance makes him no better than Pineda.  You know, to me that's the irony of all these big National level battles in CAP.  There are never any winners.  Both sides end up guilty of the same kinds of bad behavior.  Pity.

But I really hurt for CAP as a whole.  There are a lot of us out here who are trying to make CAP the great organization it could be if not for our propensity to eat our own.  We're the ones who ultimately pay the price.  More often than not, those responsible for the damage to CAP end up gone (one way or another) and the rest of us are left to pick up the pieces (again!).  That's the real pity... 

[NEBoom]

^ Really?  I would disagree.  Perhaps I have only met individuals in those positions that are empty uniforms, your experience may be different than mine.  Usually vice and CoS are the Wing Kings buddies.  Only there to fulfill staff TIG, or at the least to be YES MEN or YES WOMEN.

Seriously the CoS does what?  It is the Wing Staff that carries out the Wing Commanders wishes. 

Commanding a Squadron or Group is much more involved than being Assistant to the Wing Commander.

Well, as I understand it, 20-1 pretty much leaves it up to the Wing Commander to divvy out the duties between the Vice and the Chief of Staff.  In my case, the Vice is responsible for the unit commanders (appointing, replacing, etc) and other unit issues.  I am responsible for the Wing Staff and the operation of the HQ.  At least in a perfect world that's how it would work.

As I'm still fairly new to the position (less than a year) I'm still getting a lot of help from the Commander and the Vice in some areas.  But I am working toward handling the job completely as it should.  It is still a work in progress.

I also am responsible for recruiting members for the Wing Staff.  A difficult and thankless job if there ever was one.

I also have to endure people's ignorant attitudes about my position and relevance to the organization.  Another wonderful aspect of the job. 

Bottom line, I was a unit commander for 2.5 years in a previous CAP life.  This is every bit as involved.  If you want to find out, why don't you step up and help out?  Oh, I know.  It's much easier to stand back and accuse all of us of being yes-men.

Now if you'll excuse me, I have to go compliment the Commander on his golf swing (Nice shot, sir!).

[lordmonar]

As far as RH goes, I'm sorry to hear what happened to him,

What happened to him?   He resigned.  CAP did nothing to him....they may have tried to do something to him but RH did it all himself.

[Pace]

Since the moderators have been accused of locking too many topics recently, let me remind everyone on this thread of a few specific rules so there's no whining when this gets chopped up or locked entirely:

• Members will not engage in libel, slander, name-calling, or personal attacks.  Members will not post any hateful material about any person, unit, or organization.  There is a line between leadership examples and scenarios, or having constructive discussions about problems without naming names, and attacking others outright.  Personal threats are also strictly prohibited.


• All members will respect the opinion and dignity of other members, whether or not they may be present.  Everyone is entitled to an opinion, and certainly discourse on varying opinions is excellent. However, members will not attack others based on their opinions and beliefs, regardless of whether they agree or not.


• Members will only discuss matters on topic for the forum in which they are posting.  Members will not make blatantly off-topic posts or attempt to derail legitimate discussions. All topics must relate and be of interest to CAP members in a professional aspect.

This thread was about the future of the Iowa Wing, not some former member's vendetta against CAP.  If you all want to continue that discussion, take it to PM or start a new thread.

Careful with the discussion of the usefulness of high level positions (or really any position in CAP).  This could easily be an appropriate and relevant discussion, but the way it's been framed here is borderline inappropriate because it's a direct insult those who serve in those positions.  Just because your experience is negative doesn't negate that some wings and regions may use them appropriately and efficiently.  This is becoming personal for many members (as already seen by Lt Col Kirwan's post).  It's also derailing the original discussion.  Again, PM or start a new thread.

Finally, RH and/or others like him have been banned from this board for a reason.  We were doing so well and getting more relevant topics started and flourishing since their departure.  Let's not lose sight of that by picking up the slack where they left off, please.