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CAP Talk  |  General Discussion  |  Membership  |  Topic: NCO/CO/Direct Commissions
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Chadwick1203
Newbie

Posts: 3

« on: July 24, 2017, 11:29:07 PM »

Hey, guys! I am very much interested in the Health Services program that the Civil Air Patrol offers (and possibly even Ranger Medic school), as I'd ultimately like to serve in the United States Public Health Service. I feel as though this would make for a great precursor to that endeavor. My question is -- if I join the CAP with less than a Bachelor's Degree, would I have to wait until I finished my Bachelor's Degree in Global Health to receive a direct commission? It seems to me like the CAP is composed of Cadets and Commissioned Officers only. What about enlisted senior members and non-commissioned officers? I have prior medical experience as a surgical instrument preparer and feel as though starting out as something like a Staff Sergeant would make the most sense in my case, though I am not sure how CAP works in that regard. Please advise. ~Chad
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winterg
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 741
Unit: SER-FL-182

« Reply #1 on: July 25, 2017, 08:13:21 AM »

Welcome to CAP. We do have an NCO program. But currently, the only way to enter CAP as an NCO is to have served (or be serving) on active duty, guard, or reserve as an E-4 or above. All other members go the officer route, regardless of education level. Many officer in CAP do not have a degree and the officer grades are more appointments, not commissions. I hope that helps. Good luck!

Winter Guite, SSgt, CAP

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk

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MSG Mac
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,755
Unit: MER-MD-071

« Reply #2 on: July 25, 2017, 12:19:20 PM »

To serve as a Health services Officer one must be a licensed medical practitioner (Doctor, Nurse, EMT, paramedic, etc). This also includes ancillary medical services such as Physical Therapist. Attached is a link to all HSO disciplines.

https://www.capmembers.com/media/cms/CAPHealthServiceDisciplines_8BA051F_B688722FF1EF0.pdf
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Michael P. McEleney
Lt Col CAP
MSG USA (Retired)
EMT-83
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,790

« Reply #3 on: July 25, 2017, 05:05:59 PM »

There really isn't a CAP Health Services program, nor Ranger Medics that provide direct medical care.

That vast majority of HSOs on the books use the program as a means of quick promotion and a way to dodge Professional Development. I don't see it as any benefit to a resume or career stepping stone.
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Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award
***
Posts: 27,684

« Reply #4 on: July 25, 2017, 05:21:27 PM »

Drive-by.
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"Effort" does not equal "results".
The contents of this post are Copyright 2017 by eclipse. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.

Chadwick1203
Newbie

Posts: 3

« Reply #5 on: July 27, 2017, 08:43:05 PM »

Staff Sergeant Guite: Thank you. Just to make sure I'm correct -- folks with prior Military receive their commissionings AFTER those with no Military experience and there is no educational component required as a requisite to receiving a commission? Huh...I would have presumed it worked differently. I appreciate the information you've shared.

MSG Mac: That link was extremely helpful. Thank you. I've been certified in surgical instrument preparation and soon-to-be diagnostic imaging. I had an EMT license, but I think it lapsed. I'll have to dig up information on the quals for recert.

EMT-83: I respect your opinion. Thanks for sharing. I wasn't looking to dodge professional development, but rather to take my training a bit further to be able to accompany DDR and S&R teams on their missions in a support capacity, as needed. I have a very high aptitude for medical science and like the idea of putting it to use in this capacity in addition to the clinical setting.

--Chad
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kwe1009
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 659

« Reply #6 on: July 27, 2017, 10:11:20 PM »

Staff Sergeant Guite: Thank you. Just to make sure I'm correct -- folks with prior Military receive their commissionings AFTER those with no Military experience and there is no educational component required as a requisite to receiving a commission? Huh...I would have presumed it worked differently. I appreciate the information you've shared.

Not quite.  First there is no CAP "commissioning."  Officers are appointed to their grade.  There is zero education requirement to be a CAP officer.  Without any special consideration like being a medical professional, you will be eligible to be a 2d Lt after 6 months in CAP as long as you meet certain other training requirements. 
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SarDragon
Global Moderator

Posts: 9,930
Unit: NAVAIRPAC

« Reply #7 on: July 27, 2017, 11:46:36 PM »

Staff Sergeant Guite: Thank you. Just to make sure I'm correct -- folks with prior Military receive their commissionings AFTER those with no Military experience and there is no educational component required as a requisite to receiving a commission? Huh...I would have presumed it worked differently. I appreciate the information you've shared.

MSG Mac: That link was extremely helpful. Thank you. I've been certified in surgical instrument preparation and soon-to-be diagnostic imaging. I had an EMT license, but I think it lapsed. I'll have to dig up information on the quals for recert.

EMT-83: I respect your opinion. Thanks for sharing. I wasn't looking to dodge professional development, but rather to take my training a bit further to be able to accompany DDR and S&R teams on their missions in a support capacity, as needed. I have a very high aptitude for medical science and like the idea of putting it to use in this capacity in addition to the clinical setting.

--Chad

Therein lies the issue. There will be no opportunity to use those skills and talents in a CAP setting. CAP "medical care" is essentially limited to first aid.

Quote from: CAPR 160-1
1-6. Medical Care Policy.
a. CAP is not a health care provider, and CAP members are not permitted to act in the role of health care providers during the performance of official CAP duties. Consequently, CAP members are not permitted to function as pharmacists, physicians, nurses, or in any other role that would permit the administration and dispensing of drugs under various federal and state laws and regulations.
b. Medical care within CAP is limited to emergency first aid and may be provided only by members with appropriate training and experience. Such care shall continue only until professional medical care can be obtained.
c. Any member can assist another member in distress in order to save the life of the member. Members are encouraged to inform activity leadership, health service officers, those in direct contact with the member of their condition, and critical information for support that may be needed. Should any CAP member be required by law to render aid by virtue of his or her professional credential or state license (such as a paramedic or emergency medical technician, for example), such CAP member in complying with his or her legal obligations shall be deemed to be doing so either as the agent of his or her employer or as an agent of the state agency that issued his or her license, but in no event as the agent of CAP.
d. CAP members providing emergency first aid will inform first responders, like emergency medical services, what they have done so that further care is not hindered. All occurrences must be documented in accordance with CAPR 62-2, Mishap Reporting and Review.
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Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret
1st Lt Thompson
Seasoned Member

Posts: 344
Unit: GLR-MI-063

« Reply #8 on: July 28, 2017, 12:01:08 AM »

I wasn't looking to dodge professional development, but rather to take my training a bit further to be able to accompany DDR and S&R teams on their missions in a support capacity, as needed.

Chad, welcome to CAP and I'm glad you're very enthusiastic about wanting to take part in the program. As SarDragon stated, there wouldn't be and "support capacity" for SAR teams. Even if you still have your EMT license, you can't act in that capacity for CAP while on a mission. However, your knowledge could be utilized for training purposes, i.e. teaching basic first aid to ground team members. You can always teach more advanced skills than are required for ground team members, but those members wouldn't be able to provide a level of care higher than basic first aid while on a mission. Even so, passing on the knowledge to others is never a bad thing, as long as they know when they can and can't use it.

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1st Lt Matt Thompson
Squadron Leadership Officer, Squadron Historian
UDF, GTM3, MSA, MS

Mitchell - 31 OCT 98 (#44670) Earhart - 22 MAY 01 (#11401)
Chadwick1203
Newbie

Posts: 3

« Reply #9 on: July 29, 2017, 01:28:44 AM »

KWE1009: I was under the impression that Officers were appointed to their grades after receiving commissions. But you mean to tell me that I can become a CAP Officer without attending Officer Candidate School, et cetera? I get the feeling that the Civil Air Patrol is more relaxed in how they train their leaders then......?

SarDragon & Lieutenant Thompson: Most professionals are required by law to act, as acknowledged by Section C of CAPR 160 dash 1. Sounds like a semantic technicality to me, because if rescuing an injured individual, I doubt anyone would do or be expected to do nothing. Also, the aforementioned regulation seems to suggest that a level of first aid higher than basic first aid is allowed to be practiced in order to save life (emergency first aid). Have I misunderstood this regulation? Asking for a friend............who is me.

Thank you all for your time.
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SarDragon
Global Moderator

Posts: 9,930
Unit: NAVAIRPAC

« Reply #10 on: July 29, 2017, 07:11:25 AM »

"c. Any member can assist another member in distress in order to save the life of the member. Members are encouraged to inform activity leadership, health service officers, those in direct contact with the member of their condition, and critical information for support that may be needed. Should any CAP member be required by law to render aid by virtue of his or her professional credential or state license (such as a paramedic or emergency medical technician, for example), such CAP member in complying with his or her legal obligations shall be deemed to be doing so either as the agent of his or her employer or as an agent of the state agency that issued his or her license, but in no event as the agent of CAP."

All emphasis mine. You can help, but not as a representative of CAP. When you get into the rendering assistance mode, you basically take off your CAP uniform, even if just figuratively.
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Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret
EMT-83
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,790

« Reply #11 on: July 29, 2017, 10:08:13 AM »

There are no semantics involved: CAP does not provide medical care. The entire Health Services nonsense should have been ditched years ago.

My agency isn't going to cover me unless I'm responding for them. Good Samaritan laws aren't going to protect me. Literally, no one has my back if I screw up.

Airway, Breathing, Circulation. Sorry, that's it. I'm not risking my house, savings and future earnings.

Hint for the new guys: get rid of those EMS bumper stickers and decals.
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CyBorgII
Recruit

Posts: 38
Unit: USCG AUX

« Reply #12 on: July 29, 2017, 03:58:39 PM »

My first unit had a former Air Force Nurse who had served in Vietnam (and quite decorated).  Beyond wearing the Nurse badge on her uniform, I do not remember that she did anything nursing-related in CAP.
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Permanently ex-CAP, now back in the CG Auxiliary and digging it no end.
kwe1009
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 659

« Reply #13 on: July 30, 2017, 01:48:02 PM »

KWE1009: I was under the impression that Officers were appointed to their grades after receiving commissions. But you mean to tell me that I can become a CAP Officer without attending Officer Candidate School, et cetera? I get the feeling that the Civil Air Patrol is more relaxed in how they train their leaders then......?

SarDragon & Lieutenant Thompson: Most professionals are required by law to act, as acknowledged by Section C of CAPR 160 dash 1. Sounds like a semantic technicality to me, because if rescuing an injured individual, I doubt anyone would do or be expected to do nothing. Also, the aforementioned regulation seems to suggest that a level of first aid higher than basic first aid is allowed to be practiced in order to save life (emergency first aid). Have I misunderstood this regulation? Asking for a friend............who is me.

Thank you all for your time.

CAP is a volunteer organization and the rank really doesn't translate to the real military.  For example, an Air Force person is not required or even encouraged to salute a CAP officer.  Officer commissions come from the President of the United States.  CAP Officer appointments come from within CAP.  To be a CAP officer you have to do the following:

- Pay annual dues
- be 21 or over
- High School (or equivalent) graduate
- have a uniform
- pass a basic background check
- complete Level 1 of CAP Professional Development (take an online course that can be completed in a day)
- be in CAP for 6 month
- have your squadron commander approve you to be promoted to 2d Lt

That is pretty much it and you are now an officer in the Civil Air Patrol.  Promotion to higher ranks is much the same with no requirement to have any type of college degree.
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CAP Talk  |  General Discussion  |  Membership  |  Topic: NCO/CO/Direct Commissions
 


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