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Author Topic: No more Airman's Attic access in some areas  (Read 2509 times)
Eclipse
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« on: July 12, 2017, 07:10:43 PM »

Word is running through the various message channels that CAP is being formally
barred from access to the Airmans Attic on some bases dues to them being emptied out by CAP people,
and / or (apparently) some bad behavior by CAP members and parents.

So there you go.

No AAFES.

Virtually no MCSS.

Now no Airmans Attic.

I've also heard some anecdotal squawking that some encampments are insisting on ABUs for uniformity
(which is well outside the authority of an encampment CC), which is exacerbating the situation and
forcing more people, especially cadets, into buying commercial stuff, including the pink knockoffs coming from VG.
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PHall
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« Reply #1 on: July 12, 2017, 08:41:26 PM »

I know at the CAWG Encampment this year at least 75-80% of the participants, Cadre and Student, were in ABU's. And there was no requirement to wear ABU's either.
Pretty much the same thing happened in the 80's when we transitioned to BDU's.
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Eclipse
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« Reply #2 on: July 12, 2017, 09:42:35 PM »

CAWG's experiences, across the board, are rarely indicative of what the rest of CAP is doing, though
in this case, considering that CAWG was a significant, if not the significant beneficiary of usable uniforms
from AAFES, not to mention has some seven USAF bases, plus other facilities, there should be a fair amount of
ABUs around.

I would also hazard a big chunk of CEAP cash went to cadets attending CAWG encampments as well.

Frankly, I've actually been fairly well impressed at how many activities, especially encampments and NCSAs,
posted photos that still show ABUs to be in the minority.
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kwe1009
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« Reply #3 on: July 12, 2017, 09:55:33 PM »

I can confirm that in at least 2 states this is absolutely the case.  In both bases you can thank parents (some are CAP members) who literally yelled at the staff because they did not have the uniform sizes they needed.

I do know of 1 NCSA that did specifically require ABUs.
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PHall
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« Reply #4 on: July 12, 2017, 11:13:33 PM »

CAWG's experiences, across the board, are rarely indicative of what the rest of CAP is doing, though
in this case, considering that CAWG was a significant, if not the significant beneficiary of usable uniforms
from AAFES, not to mention has some seven USAF bases, plus other facilities, there should be a fair amount of
ABUs around.

I would also hazard a big chunk of CEAP cash went to cadets attending CAWG encampments as well.

Frankly, I've actually been fairly well impressed at how many activities, especially encampments and NCSAs,
posted photos that still show ABUs to be in the minority.


Actually, no. There were some cadets who took advantage of CEAP funds, but not many. We have a pretty strong scholarship program here in CAWG and the cadets who asked for financial assistance were usually handled "in-house".
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Eclipse
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« Reply #5 on: July 12, 2017, 11:39:17 PM »

Do those scholarships include money for uniforms and travel?
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Slim
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« Reply #6 on: July 13, 2017, 03:22:06 AM »

CAP should have never had access to the AA in the first place.  CAP members aren't eligible to use USO facilities in the first place, let alone be in there cleaning them out of ABUs.  At W-P, anyone who entered the USO building that wasn't known by name/face to the volunteer at the reception counter had to show an ID to prove eligibility to use the building.  If some of them let CAP members into the facility for that reason, they should be accepting some of the blame for it.

I just spent a week in the USO building at Wright-Patt for GLRSC.  One of the first things they told us during the welcome brief was to keep our mitts off the ABUs in the Airman's Attic.  We were also told that the TV/game room and snack bar were off limits to us.  Basically, the only places we were allowed to be was the large multipurpose room they held the classes in, the four classrooms upstairs we used for seminar breakouts, and the rest rooms.

At the time, there were plenty of ABUs coming into the AA, the dropoff was right outside the main classroom, and plenty more upstairs that had been cleaned, processed and put out on the racks.  I find it hard to believe that that particular AA went from "Those ABUs are for Air Force airmen who need them" to "Sorry AB Schmuckatelli, we don't have any ABUs in stock because the ingrates from CAP took them all..." in a little over a month.
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Slim
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« Reply #7 on: July 13, 2017, 10:43:48 AM »

CAP should have never had access to the AA in the first place.  CAP members aren't eligible to use USO facilities in the first place, let alone be in there cleaning them out of ABUs.  At W-P, anyone who entered the USO building that wasn't known by name/face to the volunteer at the reception counter had to show an ID to prove eligibility to use the building.  If some of them let CAP members into the facility for that reason, they should be accepting some of the blame for it.

Wait, so the Airman's Attic isn't just another name for "base thrift store?"   Is this more like "one is Goodwill, the other is the Salvation Army" or something?

The Airman's Attic is run by the USO? Is that common at every base?

Is the Airman's Attic a true "Thrift Store" where you pay for things (and the proceeds keep one or more family support groups/MWR things afloat) or are the items in there free?

If the items are free, and the intent is that Joe Snuffy A1C who just accidentally blew out his ABU pants climbing down from atop the C-17 can go and get a "new-ish" used pair for free and not have to shell out $41.97 (not that I know how much ABU pants cost!) at Clothing Sales before he gets his first uniform allowance, thats a whole 'nother kettle of fish.
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lordmonar
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« Reply #8 on: July 13, 2017, 11:18:37 AM »

CAP should have never had access to the AA in the first place.  CAP members aren't eligible to use USO facilities in the first place, let alone be in there cleaning them out of ABUs.  At W-P, anyone who entered the USO building that wasn't known by name/face to the volunteer at the reception counter had to show an ID to prove eligibility to use the building.  If some of them let CAP members into the facility for that reason, they should be accepting some of the blame for it.

Wait, so the Airman's Attic isn't just another name for "base thrift store?"   Is this more like "one is Goodwill, the other is the Salvation Army" or something?

The Airman's Attic is run by the USO? Is that common at every base?
No and No.

Quote
Is the Airman's Attic a true "Thrift Store" where you pay for things (and the proceeds keep one or more family support groups/MWR things afloat) or are the items in there free?
The Airman's Attic and the Thrift Store are often co-located.  They are often run by the Officers Spouse or NCO Spouse Club.  I have never heard of a base with an active USO facility....but they may exist.

Quote
If the items are free, and the intent is that Joe Snuffy A1C who just accidentally blew out his ABU pants climbing down from atop the C-17 can go and get a "new-ish" used pair for free and not have to shell out $41.97 (not that I know how much ABU pants cost!) at Clothing Sales before he gets his first uniform allowance, thats a whole 'nother kettle of fish.
That is exactly what the Airman's Attic is.   They ask people to donate their old uniforms to so Airman Snuffy can save a buck.

As for Eclipse's point.....as with all things.......if you abuse a privilege you are going to loose it.    Also the actions as Base X.....do not necessarily make policy air force wide.

And finally a point about the USO.........those guys can be sticks in the mud.   The USO runs a small shop at El Paso for the out bound troops.....and they were very rude to us contractors who were also deploying.     And hey!  That's their right.   They are not an official part of the USAF or Military and they can set what ever rules they want.

/Rant
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PATRICK M. HARRIS, SMSgt, CAP
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« Reply #9 on: July 13, 2017, 11:29:56 AM »

VAWG members were disinvited from directly using the Airman's Attic at Langley because of bad behavior on the part of entitled parents and cadets. Access now goes through Wing Logistics, so the volunteers don't have to put up with nonsense they're not paid for.
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Nor'easter
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« Reply #10 on: July 13, 2017, 11:32:32 AM »

...I have never heard of a base with an active USO facility....but they may exist.

Pensacola is the only one I know of, but they have nothing to do with the thrift shop there.
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A.Member
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« Reply #11 on: July 13, 2017, 11:32:58 AM »

I agree with the earlier comment that CAP never should've had access to Airmans Attic.  So, I don't see this as a privilege revoked at all...rather access by CAP members as an abuse of privilege.

That said, to lordmonar's point what happens somewhere does not make it policy across the board.  Every base has it's own policies/procedures which can change with every command.  Some are more open and supportive, others may not be.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2017, 11:40:24 AM by A.Member » Logged
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Eclipse
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« Reply #12 on: July 13, 2017, 01:10:45 PM »

I agree with the earlier comment that CAP never should've had access to Airmans Attic. 

I'm gonna have to agree - whenever people talked about "Airmans Attic" my presumption was this was a thrift store
where people paid for items like any Goodwill, etc.

Googling around clearly shows that these are intended for younger Airmen needing help in a pinch, I don't even know why
CAP members would think they are entitled to this access at all.  It would be interesting to know if / how many of
the troublemakers were airmen or dependents that are also CAP members, who would have access regardless.

Now, with that said...

The goobers who made the noise should be disciplined directly, whether for abuse of the system, or violation of
the core value of respect, instead of having to issue blanket spankings. If CAP would fix the PROBLEMS, instead of
trying to fix EVERYONE, it might get somewhere.  On first blush, this feels like the revocation of a privilege because of a few typical CAP
bad actors, when in fact it probably shouldn't have ever been an option.

Any CAP member, or parent, who would say anything but "THANK YOU" to another volunteer who is there giving them FREE STUFF,
absolutely needs an attitude adjustment regardless, and possibly formal disciplinary action to include the possibility of termination.

Moving forward...

Where is "Total Force"?  Why does CAP continue to be treated as an "outsider" and "Guest" on military bases, especially
USAF installations, in the face of the rhetoric of "one team"? Part of the reason CAP members would be in there to start
with is that other legit sources are all but cut off from the majority of the members, leaving them with cheap pink VG
knock-offs as their only ready option.  So mom trucks 3 hours to WP looking for a shirt, is told "sorry, we're out", and
goes "soccer mom".  None of this would happen if she could just order from AAFES.

An AD airman or dependent who pitched a fit at one of these places would probably get some NJP, or be barred from access,
but the whole USAF wouldn't be restricted.

"Total" means "Total".  Either CAP is part of the team, or it isn't. That goes for AAFES, MWR, USO, general base access, whatever.

It seems like the USAF is happy enough to include CAP in T-F when it needs free labor, but not so much when providing
some no-cost benefits to those same "airmen" members (Sorry, only "Airmen" during AFAMS).
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Mordecai
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« Reply #13 on: July 13, 2017, 01:15:25 PM »

I agree with the earlier comment that CAP never should've had access to Airmans Attic. 

I'm gonna have to agree - whenever people talked about "Airmans Attic" my presumption was this was a thrift store
where people paid for items like any Goodwill, etc.

Googling around clearly shows that these are intended for younger Airmen needing help in a pinch, I don't even know why
CAP members would think they are entitled to this access at all.  It would be interesting to know if / how many of
the troublemakers were airmen or dependents that are also CAP members, who would have access regardless.

Now, with that said...

The goobers who made the noise should be disciplined directly, whether for abuse of the system, or violation of
the core value of respect, instead of having to issue blanket spankings. If CAP would fix the PROBLEMS, instead of
trying to fix EVERYONE, it might get somewhere.  On first blush, this feels like the revocation of a privilege because of a few typical CAP
bad actors, when in fact it probably shouldn't have ever been an option.

Any CAP member, or parent, who would say anything but "THANK YOU" to another volunteer who is there giving them FREE STUFF,
absolutely needs an attitude adjustment regardless, and possibly formal disciplinary action to include the possibility of termination.

Where is "Total Force"?  Why does CAP continue to be treated as an "outside" and "Guest" on military bases, especially
USAF installations, in the face of the rhetoric of "one team"?

An AD airman or dependent who pitched a fit at one of these places would probably get some NJP, or be barred from access,
but the whole USAF wouldn't be restricted.

"Total" means "Total".  Either CAP is part of the team, or it isn't. That goes for AAFES, MWR, USO, general base access, whatever.

It seems like the USAF is happy enough to include CAP in T-F when it needs free labor, but not so much when providing
some no-cost benefits to those same "airmen" members (Sorry, only "Airmen" during AFAMS).

Minus the Total Force points which I don't have time to go over right now, I'm in Total agreement with this post.

I imagine that if AF installations saw that we were disciplining our members when they did something dumb (proactively reaching out and saying to the PTB that we caught Member X doing Y and their access was revoked on our side and disciplinary action taken) that they would appreciate us policing our own and not nuke privs from orbit for all when a bad actor slips through.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2017, 01:19:12 PM by Mordecai » Logged
abdsp51
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« Reply #14 on: July 13, 2017, 02:05:00 PM »

Eclipse, not every person who is part of TF has access to those facilities. 
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etodd
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« Reply #15 on: July 13, 2017, 02:18:03 PM »


..., I don't even know why CAP members would think they are entitled to this access at all.

Ah c'mon. You know the answer to that one. Some of these folks put on that uniform and lose all sense of reality.
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Jester
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« Reply #16 on: July 13, 2017, 04:49:31 PM »

Our AA has trash bags full of ABUs they donate to CAP or JROTC. They get more of them than anything else and don't have the rack space to put them all out or the shelf space to backstock them.

I've previously talked to them and they were ok with members showing a CAPID getting a top and bottom. If this kind of incident happened here I think I'd go into some kind of rabies fit.
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Mitchell 1969
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« Reply #17 on: July 13, 2017, 07:56:36 PM »


And finally a point about the USO.........those guys can be sticks in the mud.   The USO runs a small shop at El Paso for the out bound troops.....and they were very rude to us contractors who were also deploying.     And hey!  That's their right.   They are not an official part of the USAF or Military and they can set what ever rules they want.

I've mentioned this before, but the USO at LAX was quite accommodating to CAP, at their invitation. But it wasn't a drop in whenever you like deal. It was specifically limited to IACE departures and returns. No big deal for them, just a place to sit and have a cookie and a Coke while waiting for flights, but much appreciated. I say again - their invitation, but undoubtedly based on my personal relationship with the retired general who used to run it. I mentioned during a conversation that i was going to be rounding up CAP cadets for ISCE and he knew all about us, insisted that we use their facility as a safe haven and gathering place.
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BuckeyeDEJ
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« Reply #18 on: July 13, 2017, 08:13:24 PM »

No AAFES.

Virtually no MCSS.

WHAT?!? I missed a memo somewhere.
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CAP since 1984: Lt Col; former C/Lt Col; MO, MRO, MS, IO; former sq CC/CD/PA; group and wing PA, natl cmte mbr, nat'l staff member, at region level now
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Eclipse
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« Reply #19 on: July 13, 2017, 08:26:08 PM »

No AAFES.

Virtually no MCSS.

WHAT?!? I missed a memo somewhere.

CAP hasn't been able to order anything from AAFES for several years, and unless you have a USAF base with an
MCSS store in reasonable proximity, >and< are allowed on base, that's not really an option either.
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PHall
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« Reply #20 on: July 13, 2017, 08:39:57 PM »

Do those scholarships include money for uniforms and travel?

No, just the cost of the activity they're applying for. Which is usually the biggest cost.
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jody
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« Reply #21 on: July 14, 2017, 08:41:31 AM »

I just attended the Rocky Mountain Region Staff College at the Air Force Academy in Colorado Springs. While there my group and I took the opportunity to go over to clothing sales and the thrift shop. I could not have been treated with more respect from the staff there. In fact, they even helped me find additional clothing items that I did not know were there. They were very kind as well. It sounds to me that the individual Wing staff members should step up and help CAP members to obtain uniform items instead of individual members inundating Airman's Attics on the various bases. That is what the Utah Wing did for the benefit of its members.


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stillamarine
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« Reply #22 on: July 14, 2017, 10:36:17 AM »


And finally a point about the USO.........those guys can be sticks in the mud.   The USO runs a small shop at El Paso for the out bound troops.....and they were very rude to us contractors who were also deploying.     And hey!  That's their right.   They are not an official part of the USAF or Military and they can set what ever rules they want.

I've mentioned this before, but the USO at LAX was quite accommodating to CAP, at their invitation. But it wasn't a drop in whenever you like deal. It was specifically limited to IACE departures and returns. No big deal for them, just a place to sit and have a cookie and a Coke while waiting for flights, but much appreciated. I say again - their invitation, but undoubtedly based on my personal relationship with the retired general who used to run it. I mentioned during a conversation that i was going to be rounding up CAP cadets for ISCE and he knew all about us, insisted that we use their facility as a safe haven and gathering place.

They have a great USO but the one at SEATAC was amazing. After a very long flight (with lots of booze) back from Oki in 98 I slept really good on the racks they have there. They even woke me up with enough time to shave and put on my Blues for the last leg home.
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jody
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« Reply #23 on: July 14, 2017, 02:31:17 PM »


And finally a point about the USO.........those guys can be sticks in the mud.   The USO runs a small shop at El Paso for the out bound troops.....and they were very rude to us contractors who were also deploying.     And hey!  That's their right.   They are not an official part of the USAF or Military and they can set what ever rules they want.

I've mentioned this before, but the USO at LAX was quite accommodating to CAP, at their invitation. But it wasn't a drop in whenever you like deal. It was specifically limited to IACE departures and returns. No big deal for them, just a place to sit and have a cookie and a Coke while waiting for flights, but much appreciated. I say again - their invitation, but undoubtedly based on my personal relationship with the retired general who used to run it. I mentioned during a conversation that i was going to be rounding up CAP cadets for ISCE and he knew all about us, insisted that we use their facility as a safe haven and gathering place.

They have a great USO but the one at SEATAC was amazing. After a very long flight (with lots of booze) back from Oki in 98 I slept really good on the racks they have there. They even woke me up with enough time to shave and put on my Blues for the last leg home.

Very nice!


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abdsp51
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« Reply #24 on: July 14, 2017, 03:11:25 PM »

They have a great USO but the one at SEATAC was amazing. After a very long flight (with lots of booze) back from Oki in 98 I slept really good on the racks they have there. They even woke me up with enough time to shave and put on my Blues for the last leg home.

It's gotten better.  Completely renovated and new location as of last year.
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stillamarine
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« Reply #25 on: July 14, 2017, 03:13:01 PM »

They have a great USO but the one at SEATAC was amazing. After a very long flight (with lots of booze) back from Oki in 98 I slept really good on the racks they have there. They even woke me up with enough time to shave and put on my Blues for the last leg home.

It's gotten better.  Completely renovated and new location as of last year.

Let me tell you, it was great taking a shower after that 18 hour flight followed by a steak breakfast at the brewery there. Add the nap and it was the best trip I ever took!

I found it interesting that they do welcome first responders on a space available basis. I wonder if any others do that.
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BuckeyeDEJ
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« Reply #26 on: July 15, 2017, 12:50:43 AM »

No AAFES.

Virtually no MCSS.

WHAT?!? I missed a memo somewhere.

CAP hasn't been able to order anything from AAFES for several years, and unless you have a USAF base with an
MCSS store in reasonable proximity, >and< are allowed on base, that's not really an option either.

Huh. I have MacDill in my backyard, but haven't been over there for a couple of years. If I ever get the burning desire to replace the BDUs I haven't worn in years, I might just have to see what hoops I do/don't need to jump through.
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CAP since 1984: Lt Col; former C/Lt Col; MO, MRO, MS, IO; former sq CC/CD/PA; group and wing PA, natl cmte mbr, nat'l staff member, at region level now
REAL LIFE: Working journalist in SPG, DTW (News), SRQ, PIT (Trib), 2D1, WVI, W22; editor, desk chief, designer, photog, columnist, reporter, graphics guy, visual editor, but not all at once. Now in marketing.
Mitchell 1969
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« Reply #27 on: July 15, 2017, 02:58:13 AM »

They have a great USO but the one at SEATAC was amazing. After a very long flight (with lots of booze) back from Oki in 98 I slept really good on the racks they have there. They even woke me up with enough time to shave and put on my Blues for the last leg home.

It's gotten better.  Completely renovated and new location as of last year.

Let me tell you, it was great taking a shower after that 18 hour flight followed by a steak breakfast at the brewery there. Add the nap and it was the best trip I ever took!

I found it interesting that they do welcome first responders on a space available basis. I wonder if any others do that.

The one at LAX did. In fact, encouraged them to stop by.
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SAREXinNY
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« Reply #28 on: July 16, 2017, 08:40:35 AM »

I wasn't aware we were shut out of AAFES.  I haven't needed anything from there in years.  Vanguard sells the pants, but no jacket.  So is there anywhere else to get an officer's blues jacket other than eBay?
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NIN
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« Reply #29 on: July 16, 2017, 11:54:13 AM »

I wasn't aware we were shut out of AAFES.  I haven't needed anything from there in years.  Vanguard sells the pants, but no jacket.  So is there anywhere else to get an officer's blues jacket other than eBay?

Well "shut out of AAFES" isn't exactly true.

We're still authorized to shop at AAFES MCSS for uniform items  (CAPR 147-1).

And we're still authorized to "mail order" uniforms (CAPM 39-1, para 1.3.2.1) and "phone order" (ibid, para 1.3.2.2) from AAFES MCSS, but anecdotal evidence suggests that you have to get the right person on the phone at the right time to gain such ability, otherwise "something, something DEERS something."   AAFES has started to lean toward online ordering and we're shut right out of that (again, "something, something DEERS something").

Which leaves you to getting to an MCSS on a local base. Most of which are very much not "local" anymore due to BRAC closures, and are then subject to the vagaries of the base commander's specific access policy. When I lived in Detroit, Selfridge ANGB was a 20-30 minute trip (depending on where I lived at the time) and CAP had no trouble getting on base *except* when there was any kind of a security situation.  Where I live now, the ANG base is over an hour away, has an access list for CAP (and pretty much only the on-base sq is on it) and even then the MCSS is, uh, "limited."  The nearest active AFB is closer to 90 minutes away in another state, and we're told that if you're not on the access list at the gate for CAP, you're not getting in. So much for that.

So while we're authorized, our ability to access (physically, or technically) is still limited in many cases. I've had better luck gaining access to MCSS at Andrews AFB while traveling, for example.

At the end of the day, Vanguard or eBay is simply "easier".

And to be fair, I've gotten some really good uniform deals out of eBay in the last 4 years.
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Darin Ninness, Lt Col, CAP
Sq Bubba, Wing Dude, National Guy
I like to have Difficult Adult Conversationsô
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GaryVC
Forum Regular

Posts: 109
Unit: PCR-NV-070

« Reply #30 on: July 16, 2017, 12:52:17 PM »

If anyone is going to be visiting Las Vegas and wants to visit the AAFES store at Nellis AFB I can get you on base. Just let me know well in advance. They generally have a good selection but sometimes run out of things. It took me a while to get an ABU cap in my size. gary@vcisinc.com
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Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award
***
Posts: 27,589

« Reply #31 on: July 16, 2017, 01:13:23 PM »

And we're still authorized to "mail order" uniforms (CAPM 39-1, para 1.3.2.1) and "phone order" (ibid, para 1.3.2.2) from AAFES MCSS, but anecdotal evidence suggests that you have to get the right person on the phone at the right time to gain such ability, otherwise "something, something DEERS something."   AAFES has started to lean toward online ordering and we're shut right out of that (again, "something, something DEERS something").

About 2 years ago, AAFES decided arbitrarily to no longer accept CAP phone orders. Without that ability, AAFES is no longer an option for the
majority of CAP members.  (Per the KB this was due to the outsourcing of the AAFES call center, which if correct, is the most "typical CAP situation" I've heard in quite a while...)

MCSS, while still open to members, require physical access, are not located in many of the most populous areas of the country, and
do not necessarily stock the "thing" a member needs at any given time, vs. the mail order option, which was a hassle but at least worked
when you knew the hoops, where in theory the entire catalog was available to order.
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SAREXinNY
Forum Regular

Posts: 122
Unit: NER-NY

« Reply #32 on: July 16, 2017, 01:15:26 PM »

I wasn't aware we were shut out of AAFES.  I haven't needed anything from there in years.  Vanguard sells the pants, but no jacket.  So is there anywhere else to get an officer's blues jacket other than eBay?

Well "shut out of AAFES" isn't exactly true.

....but anecdotal evidence suggests that you have to get the right person on the phone at the right time to gain such ability.....

Ahhhh ok. Well in that case nothing has changed since my order.  It took weeks, with lots of calling, emailing, faxing, verification, etc.  Royal PITA but it got done.
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Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award
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Posts: 27,589

« Reply #33 on: July 16, 2017, 01:33:32 PM »

Ahhhh ok. Well in that case nothing has changed since my order.  It took weeks, with lots of calling, emailing, faxing, verification, etc.  Royal PITA but it got done.

How recent was this?

And if so, what steps did you take to get it done?

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SAREXinNY
Forum Regular

Posts: 122
Unit: NER-NY

« Reply #34 on: July 16, 2017, 02:07:37 PM »

Ahhhh ok. Well in that case nothing has changed since my order.  It took weeks, with lots of calling, emailing, faxing, verification, etc.  Royal PITA but it got done.

How recent was this?

And if so, what steps did you take to get it done?

Eclipse, I just noticed your previous post.  My order was in March of '13.    I haven't attempted to order anything since.  If they cut us off from phone orders that is really frustrating.
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Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award
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Posts: 27,589

« Reply #35 on: July 16, 2017, 02:19:39 PM »

Ahhhh ok. Well in that case nothing has changed since my order.  It took weeks, with lots of calling, emailing, faxing, verification, etc.  Royal PITA but it got done.

How recent was this?

And if so, what steps did you take to get it done?

Eclipse, I just noticed your previous post.  My order was in March of '13.    I haven't attempted to order anything since.  If they cut us off from phone orders that is really frustrating.

OK, bummer, yeah that was still in the "good ol' days".
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Mustang
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 680

« Reply #36 on: July 17, 2017, 12:07:09 AM »

CAP should have never had access to the AA in the first place.  CAP members aren't eligible to use USO facilities in the first place, let alone be in there cleaning them out of ABUs. 
.....

I just spent a week in the USO building at Wright-Patt for GLRSC.  One of the first things they told us during the welcome brief was to keep our mitts off the ABUs in the Airman's Attic.  We were also told that the TV/game room and snack bar were off limits to us.  Basically, the only places we were allowed to be was the large multipurpose room they held the classes in, the four classrooms upstairs we used for seminar breakouts, and the rest rooms.
Total Force, my ass. More like Total Farce.
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"Amateurs train until they get it right; Professionals train until they cannot get it wrong. "

abdsp51
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 2,273
Unit: Classified

« Reply #37 on: July 17, 2017, 11:07:11 AM »

Total Force, my ass. More like Total Farce.

Are you really surprised by that?  I said before that the inclusion into Total Force is not going to be the goodie bag everyone thought it was.  Plus the USO is not run by the AF or the DOD.  And in many ways if there is any truth into this thread who do we (CAP) really have to fault for it? 

To many see membership in CAP and expect entitlements that it does not nor should provide.
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Eclipse
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Posts: 27,589

« Reply #38 on: July 17, 2017, 11:39:37 AM »

I think in this particular case, CAP members have / had no business in there.  It's not what the intention is / was, and is akin to
when CAP seeks donations for other charities, with that said...

From the time where CAP members were hanging I-Vs in the field to today's reality, you can blame bad behavior / poor leadership / lack of ramifications
for the state of CAP today. Gomer Slick Sleeve from another wing decides the base where a unit meets would be "perfect for a SAREX / banquet" and wanders into
the garden unannounced and starts making demands of the base staff.  Next thing you know, the local unit is looking for a new meeting place. Etc., etc. BTDT.

Instead of bouncing the bozos and doing a huge mea culpa to the offended, CAP just says "everyone out of the pool", because the latter
is easier and does not require...Vigilance.
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kwe1009
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 638

« Reply #39 on: July 17, 2017, 12:17:06 PM »

I think in this particular case, CAP members have / had no business in there.  It's not what the intention is / was, and is akin to
when CAP seeks donations for other charities, with that said...

From the time where CAP members were hanging I-Vs in the field to today's reality, you can blame bad behavior / poor leadership / lack of ramifications
for the state of CAP today. Gomer Slick Sleeve from another wing decides the base where a unit meets would be "perfect for a SAREX / banquet" and wanders into
the garden unannounced and starts making demands of the base staff.  Next thing you know, the local unit is looking for a new meeting place. Etc., etc. BTDT.

Instead of bouncing the bozos and doing a huge mea culpa to the offended, CAP just says "everyone out of the pool", because the latter
is easier and does not require...Vigilance.

Unfortunately, you are absolutely correct.
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stillamarine
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 752
Unit: SER-AL-134

« Reply #40 on: July 17, 2017, 02:01:55 PM »



From the time where CAP members were hanging I-Vs in the field to today's reality, you can blame bad behavior / poor leadership / lack of ramifications
for the state of CAP today.

This. Times 1000
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Tim Gardiner, 1st LT, CAP

USMC AD 1996-2001
USMCR    2001-2005  Admiral, Great State of Nebraska Navy  MS, MO, UDF
tim.gardiner@gmail.com
sardak
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,127

« Reply #41 on: July 18, 2017, 04:34:32 PM »

This was posted recently in a nearby base's "Commander's Action Line."
-------------
Concern:

Iíve been a contractor for 5 years, serving in the 007th Wing. Hopefully, I will get to join next year. I have donated many items to the airmanís attic. SO many times!! Then recently I was told that Iím banned from using and donating to the airmenís attic because Iím a contractor. As command support staff, I think itís unfair that Iím able to donate many items, which Iím happy to do and embarrassingly denied a week later because I have a green strip on my CAC.

Response:

Thank you for sharing your experience and concern. We appreciate your generous donations, and all donations, to the [Airman's] Attic.

The purpose of the [Airman's] Attic is to support active duty personnel and their families that may be without household items or clothing due to the transient nature of being an active duty military family, with a specific focus on our lower ranking enlisted members (E1-E4) and their dependents. Anyone with access to the installation is permitted to donate items to the [Airman's] Attic. If one of our [Airman's] Attic volunteers did not accept your donations it was in error, and further training may be needed to prevent a recurring problem. Our leadership team is following up now to ensure we correct our processes, as required.

Again, thank you. Useful feedback enables us to improve our processes and ensure all members of Team [base name] receive the services and support our fantastic Airmen are capable of providing.

Sincerely,
Col. Base Commander
Commander, 007th Wing
-----------
And from an associated post:
The attic, which is open Monday, Wednesday and Friday each week from 10 a.m. to 2 p.m., is now holding all-ranks day every Friday, and is even opening once a month on a Saturday.

"Here, we are in a unique situation where we don't have a large military population so the attic isn't getting utilized," [attic manager] said. "That's why we open it to all ranks on Fridays to try and get the inventory moving."

The attic offers Team BaseName members a place to find all types of goods. From children's clothes and toys, to furniture, to uniforms, the attic is a place to find free gently used goods.
---------
Mike
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CAP Talk  |  General Discussion  |  Uniforms & Awards  |  Topic: No more Airman's Attic access in some areas
 


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