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dholden
Newbie

Posts: 2

« on: July 11, 2017, 09:16:38 AM »

I'm new to CAP.  A buddy convinced me to pal along after tinkering with this for several years.  Looking forward to being of service.  I'm guessing this is friendly place to get answers for all matters CAP not specific to your squadron.
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Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award
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Posts: 27,588

« Reply #1 on: July 11, 2017, 10:20:52 AM »

Yes with the caveats that CAP is not consistently executed, nor applied, so your mileage may Vary (YMMV)
on all sorts of things from how to schedule a plane to which uniforms are worn (or not) when.  Home field advantage
on that sort of thing as long as it's not a safety issue.

Also, CT is populated by a number of old dudes who have BTDT, but would just as soon you just stayed off the lawn,
and fight over where the lot line is even though it's 250ft from the house, so there you go...
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darkmatter
Recruit

Posts: 25

« Reply #2 on: July 11, 2017, 10:26:27 AM »

You a new cadet or senior member? And welcome
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dholden
Newbie

Posts: 2

« Reply #3 on: July 11, 2017, 11:08:41 AM »

I will be a new senior member.  I'm uncertain if I should hold off a bit as I understand the enrollments start in October.
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Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award
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Posts: 27,588

« Reply #4 on: July 11, 2017, 11:13:10 AM »

Unless the squadron has a pipeline for Senior members, which would be fairly unusual, there's no reason to hold off.
There is no "membership year", per se, for any members, seniors or cadets, though some units do pipeline of cadets
to make efficient use of training time.

Considering that you need to pass a background check before you can really do much, you might as well get the ball rolling.

The BGC can be done in a couple weeks, or take months for reasons largely outside CAP's control, and with the end of the fiscal year
rapidly approaching, things in gov'mint tend to slow done in general.
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KASSRCrashResearch
Member

Posts: 92

« Reply #5 on: July 11, 2017, 07:04:29 PM »

Unless the squadron has a pipeline for Senior members, which would be fairly unusual, there's no reason to hold off.
There is no "membership year", per se, for any members, seniors or cadets, though some units do pipeline of cadets
to make efficient use of training time.

Considering that you need to pass a background check before you can really do much, you might as well get the ball rolling.

The BGC can be done in a couple weeks, or take months for reasons largely outside CAP's control, and with the end of the fiscal year
rapidly approaching, things in gov'mint tend to slow done in general.

I'm new as well technically (finally heard back from NHQ) and I was literally told "Go for it" about knocking out as much of the online training etc as possible.  It's not really all that difficult.  In two nights I knocked out Level I (I have to do the "in-person" bit still obviously but it should be taken care of on Friday), ICUT, CAPT 116 quiz, Yeager award (which was literally the most ridiculously easy test I have ever taken), AE officer technician level exam, aircraft ground handling, glider wing walker course, Basic Instructor Course and Training Cadet Leaders (I think there is an "in-person" bit for this too). 

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darkmatter
Recruit

Posts: 25

« Reply #6 on: July 11, 2017, 08:42:04 PM »

 I have found that the senior member level 1-3 stuff isint hard but more of time consuming. Unless I'm wrong but I don't think PD is suppose to be hard like some people make it out to be. Just do what you want in cap and the other stuff as you see fit
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etodd
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 663

« Reply #7 on: July 11, 2017, 09:38:39 PM »



Just do what you want in cap and the other stuff as you see fit

Here it comes ... wait for it ....
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Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award
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Posts: 27,588

« Reply #8 on: July 11, 2017, 11:43:14 PM »

Unless the squadron has a pipeline for Senior members, which would be fairly unusual, there's no reason to hold off.
There is no "membership year", per se, for any members, seniors or cadets, though some units do pipeline of cadets
to make efficient use of training time.

Considering that you need to pass a background check before you can really do much, you might as well get the ball rolling.

The BGC can be done in a couple weeks, or take months for reasons largely outside CAP's control, and with the end of the fiscal year
rapidly approaching, things in gov'mint tend to slow done in general.

I'm new as well technically (finally heard back from NHQ) and I was literally told "Go for it" about knocking out as much of the online training etc as possible.  It's not really all that difficult.  In two nights I knocked out Level I (I have to do the "in-person" bit still obviously but it should be taken care of on Friday), ICUT, CAPT 116 quiz, Yeager award (which was literally the most ridiculously easy test I have ever taken), AE officer technician level exam, aircraft ground handling, glider wing walker course, Basic Instructor Course and Training Cadet Leaders (I think there is an "in-person" bit for this too).

If you mean TLC - https://www.capmembers.com/cadet_programs/library/tlc_course/, you probably too the pre-test
which won't mean much if you don't go to the 8-hour in-face class.

Otherwise you're in good shape to get things moving.  Don't forget you have to do a practical for the iCut,
and if you're in a test taking mode, might as well knock out the FEMA IS tests as well.
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JacobAnn
Member

Posts: 73

« Reply #9 on: July 12, 2017, 07:18:01 AM »

I'm new to CAP.  A buddy convinced me to pal along after tinkering with this for several years.  Looking forward to being of service.  I'm guessing this is friendly place to get answers for all matters CAP not specific to your squadron.

Welcome.  We'll be happy to have you join us.
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KASSRCrashResearch
Member

Posts: 92

« Reply #10 on: July 12, 2017, 11:07:24 AM »

Unless the squadron has a pipeline for Senior members, which would be fairly unusual, there's no reason to hold off.
There is no "membership year", per se, for any members, seniors or cadets, though some units do pipeline of cadets
to make efficient use of training time.

Considering that you need to pass a background check before you can really do much, you might as well get the ball rolling.

The BGC can be done in a couple weeks, or take months for reasons largely outside CAP's control, and with the end of the fiscal year
rapidly approaching, things in gov'mint tend to slow done in general.

I'm new as well technically (finally heard back from NHQ) and I was literally told "Go for it" about knocking out as much of the online training etc as possible.  It's not really all that difficult.  In two nights I knocked out Level I (I have to do the "in-person" bit still obviously but it should be taken care of on Friday), ICUT, CAPT 116 quiz, Yeager award (which was literally the most ridiculously easy test I have ever taken), AE officer technician level exam, aircraft ground handling, glider wing walker course, Basic Instructor Course and Training Cadet Leaders (I think there is an "in-person" bit for this too).

If you mean TLC - https://www.capmembers.com/cadet_programs/library/tlc_course/, you probably too the pre-test
which won't mean much if you don't go to the 8-hour in-face class.

Otherwise you're in good shape to get things moving.  Don't forget you have to do a practical for the iCut,
and if you're in a test taking mode, might as well knock out the FEMA IS tests as well.

I have to do the eight hour class still.  But *twirls finger in air*, it's not like it's anything complicated but rather is just a way to waste a few hours.  The practical testing at the squadron level is a pretty quick sign off from what I was told. It's not like I really have any interest in the comm side of stuff so I am going to do everything I can to not deal with the radios directly. (Says the guy studying for his RTO license simply because of the associated promotion LOL)

As for the FEMA stuff....I already have those thanks to work (and then some).
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Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award
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Posts: 27,588

« Reply #11 on: July 12, 2017, 11:18:00 AM »

I have to do the eight hour class still.  But *twirls finger in air*, it's not like it's anything complicated but rather is just a way to waste a few hours.

Since TLC is intended to be a discussion of best practices among peers, the ROI is exactly in proportion to what you put into it,
if you walk in twirling your finger believing it's a waste of time, don't bother.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2017, 12:08:40 PM by Eclipse » Logged

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G+10
Recruit

Posts: 47

« Reply #12 on: July 12, 2017, 12:05:02 PM »

Just a heads up - when asking questions on the board you'll often get the response "search is your friend..." (meaning the search function found right under the banner) along with the corollary "What do the regs say?"

It's actually sound advice in most cases!
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arajca
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 4,102

« Reply #13 on: July 12, 2017, 01:25:19 PM »

To tag on - you'll get better/more informative responses if you tell us what you've already done. It'll show you're trying to find out through appropriate channels and the folks here appreciate it.

For example, just asking "how do I do..." will result in a number of "ask your unit" or "read the manual/regulation" responses, whereas asking "I'm trying to do XYZ, and my unit doesn't know and I can't find it in CAPR ##-#. Where can I find the information?" will most likely result in a more helpful response. Although in some cases, "ask your unit" is still the correct answer.
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SarDragon
Global Moderator

Posts: 9,871
Unit: NAVAIRPAC

« Reply #14 on: July 12, 2017, 02:47:58 PM »

I usually send this, or something similar, out by PM, but since everyone else is sharing, here goes:

You will have better credibility and get more answers to your questions if you use good grammar, punctuation, and/or spelling in your posts. Using the shift key on the keyboard when needed is also a plus. While this is an informal forum, making posts look good improves the overall quality of the forum. "Text-speak" is discouraged. Readers will treat posts more seriously if they see that you think they are important enough to use correct English.

Your posts are a look at you and your attitude. If you don't care how your posts look, a lot of folks aren't going to care enough to help you out. There are also all kinds of people reading what you write on here who could help decide your future in CAP.
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Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret
KASSRCrashResearch
Member

Posts: 92

« Reply #15 on: July 14, 2017, 04:03:19 PM »

I have to do the eight hour class still.  But *twirls finger in air*, it's not like it's anything complicated but rather is just a way to waste a few hours.

Since TLC is intended to be a discussion of best practices among peers, the ROI is exactly in proportion to what you put into it,
if you walk in twirling your finger believing it's a waste of time, don't bother.

My point was that I've been an instructor in two different fields (medicine and forensics) for probably as long as most of the people in my squadron have been involved in CAP. Well, except for one guy who I am pretty sure hunted for U-boats during the early stages of his career.  It's not really anything new or difficult given my background.  It would like my asking you for best practices regarding how to be a lovable but seemingly burnt out forum curmudgeon.  There's probably not much truly new material there for two experienced folks like you and I.  Put in the time, answer the questions, walk away and move on to something else.  It's not being dismissive but rather simply going "Okay....I got this.  Let's get it over with".

On a related note, you and I both know that "intended" and "this is how it is really done in actual practice" are two very distinct animals.  Look at ACLS.  Look at every FEMA or military CBT course ever written.
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Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award
***
Posts: 27,588

« Reply #16 on: July 14, 2017, 04:42:08 PM »

My point was that I've been an instructor in two different fields (medicine and forensics) for probably as long as most of the people in my squadron have been involved in CAP. Well, except for one guy who I am pretty sure hunted for U-boats during the early stages of his career.  It's not really anything new or difficult given my background.  It would like my asking you for best practices regarding how to be a lovable but seemingly burnt out forum curmudgeon.  There's probably not much truly new material there for two experienced folks like you and I.  Put in the time, answer the questions, walk away and move on to something else.  It's not being dismissive but rather simply going "Okay....I got this.  Let's get it over with".

You're making my argument - being a professional in medicine literally has no necessary correlation to dealing with adolescents, parents, and other adults in
a volunteer environment, And if you've BTDT, then the other will be looking to you for advice as to best practices and waht works vs. what is written.

On a related note, you and I both know that "intended" and "this is how it is really done in actual practice" are two very distinct animals.  Look at ACLS.  Look at every FEMA or military CBT course ever written.

None of those are related.

TLC, again, is a sharing conversational session among peers to try and get through and past the BS and talk about struggles and challenges
in being successful with cadets.  It's literally supposed to be the antithesis of what you indicate above, however many people
walk in with the "let's just get through this" mentality, which defeats the purpose.
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KASSRCrashResearch
Member

Posts: 92

« Reply #17 on: July 14, 2017, 05:19:06 PM »

Quote
You're making my argument - being a professional in medicine literally has no necessary correlation to dealing with adolescents, parents, and other adults in
a volunteer environment,

Okay...pardon me for being a bit of a jerk but you're literally arguing what is referred to in court as "facts not in evidence".  I mean....I kind of wanted to see how you would react- exactly as I expected by the way- but there's no "making your argument" since it's fallacious at best. 

I actually was in charge of a EMS explorers/junior firefighters "unit" about 18 or 19 years ago. I had to train them in first aid, CPR, etc so...you're wrong.  There's a reason why I am doing my level best to avoid cadets as much as I can.  I may be good at instructing teenagers but it sure as **** does not mean I like or enjoy it.  If it weren't for the fact that my board of directors requires it, I would not take part in any of the forensic science demonstrations for high school students that I am sometimes railroaded into being part of.

Next point....you do know that a large part of medical education involves teaching things to patients and their families?  Like my experience providing training and education to parents and patients ranging from school aged kids to crotchety goth teenagers with cystic fibrosis.

Another example: Ever looked at a civilian CPR class? Outside of the "BLS for Healthcare Professionals" course, better than half of those course involve all of the demographic groups you just mentions. 

But hey...what the heck do I know about teaching the people who make up the cadet side of this show?  They only way to get that is to deal with CAP cadets apparently.

Quote
None of those are related.

Not strictly, but the analogy still holds true that what is supposed to be done in a training scenario isn't always what happens because of the desire to streamline the process for reasons of operational efficiency.  You know...the "we've got more important **** to be doing" concept.

Quote
It's literally supposed to be the antithesis of what you indicate above, however many people
walk in with the "let's just get through this" mentality, which defeats the purpose.

Once again, look at the word you chose that the whole idea hinges upon:
Quote
"sup·posed
səˈpōzd,səˈpōzəd/Submit
adjective
generally assumed or believed to be the case, but not necessarily so."

I'm part of a senior squadron and will have minimal involvement with cadets in a training environment. There's a reason why I selected the squadron I did (refer to one of my commenst above).  Granted, they assigned me AE as one of my tracks so in a nominative sense. I should be dealing with cadets.  I was assigned it simply because I am more familiar with configuring the flight sim software than anyone else.  I actually don't have much intention of doing anything significant with it beyond that which is required so far as face-to-face interactions are concerned.  My interests lay elsewhere. But this TLC course was one I was pointed in the direction of.

So...the "purpose" as you see it doesn't really apply to me.  It would be like me teaching you how to put in a chest tube.  It's not that hard but you're just not likely to ever have a reason to use it.
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Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award
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Posts: 27,588

« Reply #18 on: July 14, 2017, 05:26:42 PM »

No idea what you're going on about, but teaching CPR or counseling families with medical issues has little to do but in the most general sense with
herding cadet cats in a CAP paradigm.

If you don't want to work cadets, so be it, then why did you take the TLC test to start with?

No one said you needed to go near cadets, but don't dismiss things you have no idea about or insinuate
you've got some magic experience where you don't.

But hey...what the heck do I know about teaching the people who make up the cadet side of this show?  They only way to get that is to deal with CAP cadets apparently.

Agreed.
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waukwiz
Member

Posts: 55
Unit: GLR-WI-048

« Reply #19 on: July 14, 2017, 05:39:38 PM »

I'm guessing this is friendly place to get answers for all matters CAP not specific to your squadron.
I suppose you've found your answer to this question.

Is someone keeping a spreadsheet on how many prospective members CT has run off over the years?



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Cadet Cullen Mayes
Cadet ES Officer
Waukesha Composite Squadron
"Ok, how about instead of doing that, let's not do that. Ok?"
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KASSRCrashResearch
Member

Posts: 92

« Reply #20 on: July 14, 2017, 05:44:42 PM »

Quote
No idea what you're going on about, but teaching CPR or counseling families with medical issues has little to do but in the most general sense with
herding cadet cats in a CAP paradigm.

Allow me to highlight something for you since you are struggling with comprehension: You missed the bit about me RUNNING A CADET PROGRAM.  So yeah...I do know how to herd cats and turn them into people who, unlike 95-99% of the CAP cadets I have met, are actually not more of a burden in a real world event than they are a burden.

Quote
If you don't want to work cadets, so be it, then why did you take the TLC test to start with?

Not to invoke the Nuremberg defense but I was following orders. I think I pointed that out.  Oh yes....here:
Quote
But this TLC course was one I was pointed in the direction of.

Quote
insinuate you've got some magic experience where you don't.
The only one saying that I have some sort of "magic experience" is you.  I simply pointed out that I actually have some experience teaching cadets and other teenagers including in a paramilitary/para-emergency services role.  Granted, I never had to teach them how to stand in formation or march but when the hell does that ever come in handy in a practical sense? 

Quote
No one said you needed to go near cadets, but don't dismiss things you have no idea about or

Pardon me for taking the word of people I've actually met and answer to over the commentary of someone on the internet who is apparently just trying to pick a fight.

My argument is "Let's get this over with".  I don't care how it's done just so long as I never have to do it again.

Now....kindly, drop it.

I'm guessing this is friendly place to get answers for all matters CAP not specific to your squadron.
I suppose you've found your answer to this question.

Is someone keeping a spreadsheet on how many prospective members CT has run off over the years?


Hahahahahahaha.  Yeah, the easily frightened who cannot spot a paper tiger when they see one. 



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NIN
VIP

Posts: 4,494
Unit: of issue

« Reply #21 on: July 14, 2017, 06:23:02 PM »

Dave?

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

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Darin Ninness, Lt Col, CAP
Sq Bubba, Wing Dude, National Guy
I like to have Difficult Adult Conversations™
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Jester
Forum Regular

Posts: 152

« Reply #22 on: July 14, 2017, 06:36:54 PM »

You obviously are the bestest ever, so why not go to TLC, treat it like Eclipse stated, and then grace the rest of us with your fount of knowledge regarding our business? 

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etodd
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 663

« Reply #23 on: July 14, 2017, 08:23:11 PM »

I'm new to CAP.  A buddy convinced me to pal along after tinkering with this for several years.  Looking forward to being of service.  I'm guessing this is friendly place to get answers for all matters CAP not specific to your squadron.


^^^^ The original post in the thread in case anyone wants to get back on track.  >:D
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SarDragon
Global Moderator

Posts: 9,871
Unit: NAVAIRPAC

« Reply #24 on: July 14, 2017, 08:50:11 PM »

Dave?

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

Is someone keeping a spreadsheet on how many prospective members CT has run off over the years?

No, but the sheet I built to tally up the "measuring contests" and urinating competitions crashes Excel every time I try to load it.

General comment - If y'all would spend less time finding fault with and bad-mouthing our training, and transfer that effort to finding value with it, or helping improve it, I think we would be a happier lot.

Specific commentary for Crash - If you don't like the training, or find fault with it, what are you doing to help improve it? If TLC seems to be a time waster, and you are in a senior squadron with no desire to associate with cadets, why are you bothering to take it?

I trained as an instructor in the Navy, and take great pleasure in using that skill here in CAP. I teach Communications, SLS, CLC, and anything else that comes up. I give myself a B grade as an instructor. I'm not perfect, but my students seem to like the what and how of my presentations, and usually leave the classroom happy.

The curriculum I have to work with isn't perfect, either, but I work with it, and wring as much benefit out of it as I can. Maybe you should do the same thing at your level.

I'm going to leave this open for the moment, but if it doesn't get back on track in the next few posts, it's gonna get locked.
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Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret
KASSRCrashResearch
Member

Posts: 92

« Reply #25 on: July 15, 2017, 12:41:58 PM »

Quote
Specific commentary for Crash - If you don't like the training, or find fault with it, what are you doing to help improve it? If TLC seems to be a time waster, and you are in a senior squadron with no desire to associate with cadets, why are you bothering to take it?

Like I said, following orders.  As for improving it...it's hard enough to get practical stuff changed in large organizations.  If I suddenly develop the free time to tilt at windmills, that's not one I would be focusing upon.  It's a hoop to jump through once and to never look back at.

Quote
I give myself a B grade as an instructor. I'm not perfect, but my students seem to like the what and how of my presentations, and usually leave the classroom happy.

About the same way here.  I'm not perfect but I have never had good students complain.  I actually hope to be able to help teach other SMs as I progress. 

My apologies for my part in the derail.
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