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CAP Talk  |  Operations  |  Aviation & Flying Activities  |  Topic: What is the purpose of the Cessna 206's at CAP?
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Author Topic: What is the purpose of the Cessna 206's at CAP?  (Read 5663 times)
sardak
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,144

« Reply #20 on: June 22, 2017, 07:45:50 PM »

Here are stats for sorties of 3 hours or longer for primary missions, certainly not all CAP flying. These are for January to mid-June, 2017.

Mission   Air Sorties   Sorties >= 3.0 hrs   % Sorties >= 3.0 hrs    Longest sortie hrs
HLS   435   135   31%   4.8  C182/G1000
SAR   404   80   20%   5.8  C182/G1000
DR   137   15   11%   4.8  C172/G1000
Total   976   230   24%
The long sorties by region
SWR  130 (92 of these are on one on-going mission, 27 are on another)
PCR  35
MER  23
NCR  14
NER  11
GLR    7
RMR   7
SER   3

Does not include one sortie of 8.9 hours (as recorded in WMIRS) by a 206. Probably equipped with the Total Force BuddyTM Air-to-Air Refueling kit.

Mike
« Last Edit: June 22, 2017, 09:46:39 PM by sardak » Logged
Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award
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Posts: 28,082

« Reply #21 on: June 22, 2017, 11:10:17 PM »

How the heck did they squeeze 5.8 out of a glass 182?  Assuming that's right, it had to either be
flown by tiny Elvis or they came in on fumes. Depending on speed, that wold seem to exceed the range
by 20-40%.



That 8.9 has to be a mistake, right? That's about 150% of the range of a 206 according to interwebs.

« Last Edit: June 22, 2017, 11:13:28 PM by Eclipse » Logged

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Luis R. Ramos
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Posts: 2,535

« Reply #22 on: June 23, 2017, 08:33:54 AM »

That 5+ hour sortie flew with only two people and an auxiliary gas tank in lieu of the third?

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Live2Learn
Seasoned Member

Posts: 482

« Reply #23 on: June 23, 2017, 11:04:21 AM »

That 5+ hour sortie flew with only two people and an auxiliary gas tank in lieu of the third?

and was equipped with Pee tube, microwave, refrigerator, and fax (to request signed authorization to greatly exceed the crew flight hour limitation as well as exceptions to relevant safety rules).  :)
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jayleswo
Forum Regular

Posts: 128
Unit: PCR-CA-001

« Reply #24 on: June 23, 2017, 12:36:18 PM »

How the heck did they squeeze 5.8 out of a glass 182?  Assuming that's right, it had to either be
flown by tiny Elvis or they came in on fumes. Depending on speed, that wold seem to exceed the range
by 20-40%.

You could totally do it, physiological issues aside, depending on the mission profile. If it was a transport sortie (perhaps to get to a mission base for a SAR or highbird or something). At altitude, lean it out and use low power settings. Performance charts for 55% power at 10,000 feet standard temperature you're burning 10 gph. With full tanks  (87g) and a skinny crew your endurance would be 8.7 hours - 1.0 hour reserve - (4.6 gals in the climb and 1.1 for taxi so call it 0.5 hours) ~ 7 hours. This is flight time. Most of the time in WMIRS reports would be Hobbs time so 5.8 Hobbs would be closer to 5.3 or so of Tach (equivalent to flying) time. Longest sortie I've flown in a (round dial) 182 is 5.0 and it gets uncomfortable... -- John
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John Aylesworth, Lt Col CAP
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SAR/DR MP, Master Observer
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PHall
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 5,885

« Reply #25 on: June 23, 2017, 02:30:46 PM »

How the heck did they squeeze 5.8 out of a glass 182?  Assuming that's right, it had to either be
flown by tiny Elvis or they came in on fumes. Depending on speed, that wold seem to exceed the range
by 20-40%.

You could totally do it, physiological issues aside, depending on the mission profile. If it was a transport sortie (perhaps to get to a mission base for a SAR or highbird or something). At altitude, lean it out and use low power settings. Performance charts for 55% power at 10,000 feet standard temperature you're burning 10 gph. With full tanks  (87g) and a skinny crew your endurance would be 8.7 hours - 1.0 hour reserve - (4.6 gals in the climb and 1.1 for taxi so call it 0.5 hours) ~ 7 hours. This is flight time. Most of the time in WMIRS reports would be Hobbs time so 5.8 Hobbs would be closer to 5.3 or so of Tach (equivalent to flying) time. Longest sortie I've flown in a (round dial) 182 is 5.0 and it gets uncomfortable... -- John


Two words, Brief Relief. Google it.
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etodd
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 865

« Reply #26 on: June 23, 2017, 03:06:57 PM »



Two words, Brief Relief. Google it.

I prefer the Travel Johns. Really helps on flights I do outside of CAP where I'm often flying 3-4 hours:

http://www.sportys.com/pilotshop/travel-john-pack-of-18.html
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PHall
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 5,885

« Reply #27 on: June 23, 2017, 05:00:32 PM »



Two words, Brief Relief. Google it.

I prefer the Travel Johns. Really helps on flights I do outside of CAP where I'm often flying 3-4 hours:

http://www.sportys.com/pilotshop/travel-john-pack-of-18.html

Brief Reliefs are just about spill proof and they seal. We at AT&T use them a lot!
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etodd
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 865

« Reply #28 on: June 23, 2017, 08:30:03 PM »



Two words, Brief Relief. Google it.

I prefer the Travel Johns. Really helps on flights I do outside of CAP where I'm often flying 3-4 hours:

http://www.sportys.com/pilotshop/travel-john-pack-of-18.html

Brief Reliefs are just about spill proof and they seal. We at AT&T use them a lot!

Yep. Same with the travel johns I linked. Pee in one and you can turn it upside down and no spill.
Totally absorbs it all. :)
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Eclipse
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« Reply #29 on: June 23, 2017, 08:44:45 PM »

OK, this is productive.

In the last week we've identified >two< things to never, ever do.

Ever.
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etodd
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 865

« Reply #30 on: June 23, 2017, 09:08:43 PM »

OK, this is productive.

In the last week we've identified >two< things to never, ever do.

Ever.

I guess I've missed it. What are the two things?
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Nick
Seasoned Member

Posts: 473
Unit: SWR-TX-001

« Reply #31 on: June 23, 2017, 09:57:29 PM »

A fair point, but hopefully the Wing DO isn't tracking airframe utilization on CAPTalk.  If it's under utilized yet still assigned there,
there's generally a good reason, which a lot of times is political.

With the above said, JFK, just because >you< don't see it used, doesn't mean it's used.  Unless you're out there chalking the
tire like a meter maid, it's very likley most of the flight hours are happening during times when you're not around.

A lot of people would be pretty shocked to know just how much flying happens week mid-week during business hours.

Yeah.  The plane's had 125 hours this FY; I think it's reasonably utilized.
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Nicholas McLarty, Lt Col, CAP
Texas Wing Staff Guy
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Live2Learn
Seasoned Member

Posts: 482

« Reply #32 on: June 24, 2017, 02:38:01 PM »


Yeah.  The plane's had 125 hours this FY; I think it's reasonably utilized.

125 hours seems pretty low.  How many pilots are available to fly the aircraft?
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SarDragon
Global Moderator

Posts: 10,085
Unit: NAVAIRPAC

« Reply #33 on: June 24, 2017, 07:46:13 PM »

125 hours is great if the plane spends 5 months in maintenance during the fiscal year.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

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Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret
Spaceman3750
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 2,620

« Reply #34 on: June 24, 2017, 08:11:43 PM »

125 hours is great if the plane spends 5 months in maintenance during the fiscal year.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

This. Never underestimate the power of the mechanic to disrupt your dreams of 200 hours.
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The moment any commander or staff member considers themselves a gatekeeper, instead of a facilitator, they have failed at their job.
I can't fix all of CAP's problems, but I can lead from the bottom by building my squadron as a center of excellence to serve as an example of what every unit can be.
Live2Learn
Seasoned Member

Posts: 482

« Reply #35 on: June 26, 2017, 02:49:05 PM »

might be time to surplus this particular aircraft.
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Eclipse
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Posts: 28,082

« Reply #36 on: June 26, 2017, 03:04:40 PM »

might be time to surplus this particular aircraft.

Unfortunately these kinds of maintenance times are not all that uncommon.  Over the last couple of years
my wing has had at least a couple aircraft that wound up being MX hangar queens for most of the respective FY
because of either parts availability, the complexity of the repair, or a combination of the two coupled with
NHQ expense approvals or a mishap report.
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"The man who does more than he is paid for will soon be paid for more than he does." - Napoleon Hill.
The contents of this post are Copyright © 2017 by eclipse. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.

NIN
VIP

Posts: 4,685
Unit: of issue

« Reply #37 on: June 26, 2017, 03:13:21 PM »

might be time to surplus this particular aircraft.

Unfortunately these kinds of maintenance times are not all that uncommon.  Over the last couple of years
my wing has had at least a couple aircraft that wound up being MX hangar queens for most of the respective FY
because of either parts availability, the complexity of the repair, or a combination of the two coupled with
NHQ expense approvals or a mishap report.

That 206 ain't that old.  We'll put beaucoup hrs on it :)
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Darin Ninness, Lt Col, CAP
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I like to have Difficult Adult Conversations™
The contents of this post are Copyright © 2017 by NIN. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.
Briank
Member

Posts: 61
Unit: GLR-OH-064

« Reply #38 on: June 26, 2017, 06:14:29 PM »

Unfortunately these kinds of maintenance times are not all that uncommon.  Over the last couple of years
my wing has had at least a couple aircraft that wound up being MX hangar queens for most of the respective FY
because of either parts availability, the complexity of the repair, or a combination of the two coupled with
NHQ expense approvals or a mishap report.

In the short time my Group had an airplane it seemed like it was gone for maintenance more than it was available.  That's just how it goes sometimes.  Airplanes are very maintenance intensive. 2 is 1, etc, etc...
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amirhamzeh.cap
Newbie

Posts: 1
Unit: NY328

« Reply #39 on: July 09, 2017, 10:08:46 AM »

A fair point, but hopefully the Wing DO isn't tracking airframe utilization on CAPTalk.  If it's under utilized yet still assigned there,
there's generally a good reason, which a lot of times is political.

With the above said, JFK, just because >you< don't see it used, doesn't mean it's used.  Unless you're out there chalking the
tire like a meter maid, it's very likley most of the flight hours are happening during times when you're not around.

A lot of people would be pretty shocked to know just how much flying happens week mid-week during business hours.

Yeah.  The plane's had 125 hours this FY; I think it's reasonably utilized.


Are we both talking about 51X? What squadron are you from?


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CAP Talk  |  Operations  |  Aviation & Flying Activities  |  Topic: What is the purpose of the Cessna 206's at CAP?
 


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