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CAP Talk  |  General Discussion  |  Membership  |  Topic: Not too good of a statistic
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Author Topic: Not too good of a statistic  (Read 7109 times)
GaryVC
Forum Regular

Posts: 121
Unit: PCR-NV-070

« Reply #20 on: May 28, 2017, 06:40:23 PM »

CAPP 50-7 (note the double Ps) came out in 2004. I wouldn't trust any statistics that old.
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Shawn W.
Member

Posts: 75

« Reply #21 on: May 28, 2017, 08:17:24 PM »

Quote
That's how I did it way back in the day.  I remember it being about as stimulating

I did the ECI 13 in late 2001 or early 2002.... Talk about a mind numbing course.. and most of it didn't seem like it pertained at all to what we do in C.A.P.
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Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award
***
Posts: 27,891

« Reply #22 on: May 29, 2017, 12:20:34 AM »

You're going to actually assert that knowledge of Linebacker II didn't help commanders run squadrons?

I'm sorry, but I simply can't tell you how many times I've reached a low point in squadron operations
or a major activity, where I was able to fall back on my knowledge of Vietnam-era bombing campaigns
for inspiration and tools.
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"Effort" does not equal "results".
The contents of this post are Copyright 2017 by eclipse. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.

Ozzy
Seasoned Member

Posts: 319
Unit: NY

NY-288 Squadron Website
« Reply #23 on: May 29, 2017, 12:27:05 AM »

Quote
That's how I did it way back in the day.  I remember it being about as stimulating

I did the ECI 13 in late 2001 or early 2002.... Talk about a mind numbing course.. and most of it didn't seem like it pertained at all to what we do in C.A.P.

Not to mention it wasn't ever updated.. I ended up taking it in 2009 for my Eaker
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Ozyilmaz, TSgt, CAP
C/Lt. Colonel (Ret.)
SGT, ARNG (Out!)

NYWG Encampment 07, 08, 09, 10, (17)
CTWG Encampment 09, 11, 16
NER Cadet Leadership School 10
Live2Learn
Seasoned Member

Posts: 434

« Reply #24 on: May 29, 2017, 11:44:29 AM »

The problem for Level 2 is the CAP Officer Course. It requires a time commitment outside weekly meetings, and has a time limit for completion. These days, it's online, but it used to be an excruciatingly boring correspondence course, with a one year time limit, that many folks just didn't have the time or patience for.

Nearly all of the CAP online courses are awful.  The all time worst I've endured was SLS, no on second thought it was "CAP Intro to Safety"... that course where CAP threatened the 'nuclear option' for SM (and cadets) who didn't complete it.  Intro to CAP Safety was a  course designed by the NHQ cyber lobotomist.  I know a half dozen cadets who dropped out of CAP solely because they couldn't get past that awful, useless, totally irrelevant course.  For CAP, online course development and presentation is definitely not yet a "arrived".  If you'd like, I tell you what I really think.  :)
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Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award
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Posts: 27,891

« Reply #25 on: May 29, 2017, 12:13:52 PM »

Hard to disagree - most of the courses read like "reactions", not implemented because of the
need to impart information, but the need to CYA for a lawyer or an actuary.
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"Effort" does not equal "results".
The contents of this post are Copyright 2017 by eclipse. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.

deepblue1947
Recruit

Posts: 34
Unit: LA-076

« Reply #26 on: May 29, 2017, 07:25:41 PM »

I attended SLS at the Academy a week ago for a day and a half.  It was more like death by PowerPoint.

MG
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N6RVT
Member

Posts: 66
Unit: PCR-CA-080

« Reply #27 on: May 29, 2017, 07:59:30 PM »

I'm sorry, but I simply can't tell you how many times I've reached a low point in squadron operations or a major activity, where I was able to fall back on my knowledge of Vietnam-era bombing campaigns for inspiration and tools.

Probably half of my US Army Armor Officer's Advance course was on how to set up temporary cemeteries.  After being told it had not been policy to do that since 1952.  So its not just C.A.P.
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Dwight J. Dutton, CAPT CAP
Mitchell 1975 (before numbers)
EMT-83
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,811

« Reply #28 on: May 29, 2017, 08:27:36 PM »

I attended SLS at the Academy a week ago for a day and a half.  It was more like death by PowerPoint.

MG

That failure belongs to the folks running the course. There is good, relevant information contained in the lesson plans​: just needs competent people to let it out.
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CyBorgII
Member

Posts: 56
Unit: USCG AUX

« Reply #29 on: May 29, 2017, 08:56:41 PM »

From another service auxiliary perspective, some of the online Mandatory Training for new CG Auxiliarists (or returning ones, in my case) will not win Academy Awards any more than the CAP online courses I remember.

But, as with the CAP stuff, it's something that's got to be done, if you expect to participate.

If my opinion meant anything to CAP, one thing I would do is completely re-do Level I to actually make it a learning experience the new member has to participate in.  I'm not sure how it is now, but back in my day it was "show up for six months and don't do anything egregiously wrong and you'll get your second looie bars, almost a dead cert."  I personally never saw a new SM get denied that "six-month-bump."

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Whaddaya mean I ain't kind?  I'm just not YOUR kind!

Ex-CAP Captain, now CG Auxiliary, but still feel a great deal of affection for the many good people in CAP.
Ozzy
Seasoned Member

Posts: 319
Unit: NY

NY-288 Squadron Website
« Reply #30 on: May 29, 2017, 11:07:15 PM »

Before that number has any real meaning, it has to be vetted for who is included, information which is
not provided.  I would hazard the number is higher among members who actually show up, especially now that OBC is online

I was working on the senior member section of my squadron's site and I came across some numbers based off of the award certificates for the level completion...
Per: https://www.capmembers.com/cap_university/pd_awards/

Level II: About 670 awards per year
Level III: About 350 awards per year
Level IV: Less then 200 awards per year
Level V: No number provided

Doing a little research based on the Volunteer magazines...
Per: http://www.cap.news/civil-air-patrol/volunteer-magazine/  Volunteer magazines (2016)

Level IV: Up To September: 148
Level V: Up To September: 86

For some reason the Volunteer magazine isn't printing the names of people who have been award Eaker/Spaatz Level IV/V anymore. They used to post from the Mitchell up and I believe level III and up. I guess they got lazy.
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Ozyilmaz, TSgt, CAP
C/Lt. Colonel (Ret.)
SGT, ARNG (Out!)

NYWG Encampment 07, 08, 09, 10, (17)
CTWG Encampment 09, 11, 16
NER Cadet Leadership School 10
Briank
Member

Posts: 58
Unit: GLR-OH-064

« Reply #31 on: May 30, 2017, 06:26:15 PM »

From another service auxiliary perspective, some of the online Mandatory Training for new CG Auxiliarists (or returning ones, in my case) will not win Academy Awards any more than the CAP online courses I remember.

But, as with the CAP stuff, it's something that's got to be done, if you expect to participate.

The NIMS ICS stuff has to take the award as the worst.  The CAP stuff is so much better than that.  Fortunately I'd already done the ICS series years ago for ARES and had forgotten the pain.  Watching people struggle through it (and occasionally just give up and decide not to do things that require it) is bringing back those horrible memories though!
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CyBorgII
Member

Posts: 56
Unit: USCG AUX

« Reply #32 on: May 31, 2017, 01:52:59 PM »

The NIMS ICS stuff has to take the award as the worst.  The CAP stuff is so much better than that.  Fortunately I'd already done the ICS series years ago for ARES and had forgotten the pain.  Watching people struggle through it (and occasionally just give up and decide not to do things that require it) is bringing back those horrible memories though!

I heard a fellow flotilla member say the ICS stuff was "intense."  So I suppose I'd better go out and buy a good supply of Aleve, Motrin, Tylenol, etc.
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Whaddaya mean I ain't kind?  I'm just not YOUR kind!

Ex-CAP Captain, now CG Auxiliary, but still feel a great deal of affection for the many good people in CAP.
EMT-83
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,811

« Reply #33 on: May 31, 2017, 11:24:14 PM »

The NIMS ICS stuff has to take the award as the worst.  The CAP stuff is so much better than that.  Fortunately I'd already done the ICS series years ago for ARES and had forgotten the pain.  Watching people struggle through it (and occasionally just give up and decide not to do things that require it) is bringing back those horrible memories though!

I heard a fellow flotilla member say the ICS stuff was "intense."  So I suppose I'd better go out and buy a good supply of Aleve, Motrin, Tylenol, etc.

The most "intense" part of ICS is staying awake. Fortunately, it's so easy that you could probably pass the tests while asleep.
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Mordecai
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,051
Unit: SI

« Reply #34 on: June 01, 2017, 05:12:02 PM »

The 100,200,700,800 NIMS series is a snooze-fest.

After that it gets more interesting, especially when you start getting to look at exercise design, after action reports, incident reports, etc.
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N6RVT
Member

Posts: 66
Unit: PCR-CA-080

« Reply #35 on: June 02, 2017, 10:11:44 AM »

The NIMS ICS stuff has to take the award as the worst.  The CAP stuff is so much better than that.  Fortunately I'd already done the ICS series years ago for ARES and had forgotten the pain.  Watching people struggle through it (and occasionally just give up and decide not to do things that require it) is bringing back those horrible memories though!

I heard a fellow flotilla member say the ICS stuff was "intense."  So I suppose I'd better go out and buy a good supply of Aleve, Motrin, Tylenol, etc.

Wait until you need a DO clearance for something and have to fill out that 127 page form
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Dwight J. Dutton, CAPT CAP
Mitchell 1975 (before numbers)
Spam
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 913
Unit: GA-001

« Reply #36 on: June 02, 2017, 05:39:15 PM »

At least now you only do the SF86 once, online, and then update over the years as you are briefed/change/etc.

Mordecai, I completely agree on the ICS training; once you slog through the highly repetitive initial four courses, it opens out into some really useful training in operational and exercise (drill) planning (the drill being the exercise of the actual plan, rather than "some sort of horrible spasm").

http://www.azquotes.com/quote/1206785


V/r
Spam
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CyBorgII
Member

Posts: 56
Unit: USCG AUX

« Reply #37 on: June 03, 2017, 03:44:37 PM »

Wait until you need a DO clearance for something and have to fill out that 127 page form

It depends on if it's a task I feel strongly about participation in to go through that.

I had a Top Secret clearance with the Air National Guard many moons ago and the old DD398 was bad enough, not to mention that one of the investigators calling an old friend of mine spooked him more than it did me.

But I did that because I had to; my AFSC required it and I was ordered to get it.  I couldn't say "no."  Well, I could, if I wanted to run afoul of the UCMJ and/or my State Military Code.

In the CGAux, it is similar to CAP in that we are, of course, volunteers, though of course the CGAux operates much more closely with the CG than CAP does with the AF these days and it would be unlikely that a CAP member would need to go through such a clearance process, except for maybe the cyber operations some of you have been posting about.

For me, especially after my experiences in CAP, it would be a matter of a cost-benefit issue; i.e., do-I-really want-to-do-it v. intrusive-into-my-private-life/administrative headaches.
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Whaddaya mean I ain't kind?  I'm just not YOUR kind!

Ex-CAP Captain, now CG Auxiliary, but still feel a great deal of affection for the many good people in CAP.
Storm Chaser
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 2,676

« Reply #38 on: June 03, 2017, 06:02:28 PM »

In the CGAux, it is similar to CAP in that we are, of course, volunteers, though of course the CGAux operates much more closely with the CG than CAP does with the AF these days...

There's no argument that the Coast Guard Auxiliary operates a bit different than CAP, but I would argue that the relationship with the Air Force is much better now than it has been for years. And I'm not just talking about being part of the Total Force, but the number and types of Air Force missions we're participating in that we never did before. And let's not forget that unlike the Coast Guard Auxiliary, we get millions of dollars every year for procurement of aircraft, vehicles, communications equipment, etc. We still have room for improvement, but I'd say we're moving in the right direction.
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EMT-83
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,811

« Reply #39 on: June 03, 2017, 07:45:50 PM »

For me, especially after my experiences in CAP, it would be a matter of a cost-benefit issue; i.e., do-I-really want-to-do-it v. intrusive-into-my-private-life/administrative headaches.

Why are you back hanging out on CAP Talk? I thought you were done with CAP and everything related to it, again.
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CAP Talk  |  General Discussion  |  Membership  |  Topic: Not too good of a statistic
 


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