Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
October 23, 2017, 05:54:08 AM
Home Help Login Register
News:

CAP Talk  |  General Discussion  |  Membership  |  Topic: Senior Level Specialty Track credit
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Pages: 1 [2]  All Print
Author Topic: Senior Level Specialty Track credit  (Read 2193 times)
Alaric
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 740

« Reply #20 on: May 05, 2017, 08:44:02 AM »

A staff officer is not allowed to make up their own rules, especially when it can impede a member's progress. Any staff officer doing so should be subject to disciplinary action.

Actually not making up my own rules, there is no regulation covering this, therefore it is at the discretion of the commander.  I am the commander therefore it is my decision, unless and until someone can show me a regulation that covers this?
Logged
EMT-83
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,811

« Reply #21 on: May 05, 2017, 08:52:12 AM »

Exactly, there is no no regulation so you decided to invent one.
Logged
Alaric
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 740

« Reply #22 on: May 05, 2017, 09:35:00 AM »

Exactly, there is no no regulation so you decided to invent one.

No, I used the discretion I am given as a commander to cover an instance which the regulations do not and gave Ozzy my opinion.  What do you do when the regulations do not cover something? I presume you don't sit around wringing your hands and someone makes a decision on what to do?
Logged
Ozzy
Seasoned Member

Posts: 319
Unit: NY

NY-288 Squadron Website
« Reply #23 on: May 05, 2017, 10:39:11 AM »

A staff officer is not allowed to make up their own rules, especially when it can impede a member's progress. Any staff officer doing so should be subject to disciplinary action.

Actually not making up my own rules, there is no regulation covering this, therefore it is at the discretion of the commander.  I am the commander therefore it is my decision, unless and until someone can show me a regulation that covers this?

Yet there is. In CAP, a commander declining to approve something needs to give a legitimate reason for declining. Saying it is "Pretty poor performance" when you don't provide any information or documentation to support your view is incorrect. Haven't you learned that in your 8 years in CAP?

[ed - cleaned up language]
« Last Edit: May 05, 2017, 01:47:05 PM by SarDragon » Logged
Ozyilmaz, TSgt, CAP
C/Lt. Colonel (Ret.)
SGT, ARNG (Out!)

NYWG Encampment 07, 08, 09, 10, (17)
CTWG Encampment 09, 11, 16
NER Cadet Leadership School 10
Ravenwings
Recruit

Posts: 14

« Reply #24 on: May 05, 2017, 10:46:52 AM »

Hey Oz, Cadets could be on the Board. Keep it clean please. Mods?
Logged
Alaric
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 740

« Reply #25 on: May 05, 2017, 11:30:25 AM »

A staff officer is not allowed to make up their own rules, especially when it can impede a member's progress. Any staff officer doing so should be subject to disciplinary action.

Actually not making up my own rules, there is no regulation covering this, therefore it is at the discretion of the commander.  I am the commander therefore it is my decision, unless and until someone can show me a regulation that covers this?

Yet there is. In CAP, a commander declining to approve something needs to give a legitimate reason for declining. Saying it is "piss Pretty poor performance" when you don't provide any information or documentation to support your view is incorrect. Haven't you learned that in your 8 years in CAP?

And my legitimate reason is that someone is trying to get Senior tasks in a specialty track signed off before they are a technician.  The regulations do not cover this scenario and therefore as a commander I am using my discretion to say this is inappropriate and the specialty track must be done in order
Logged
THRAWN
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,809

« Reply #26 on: May 05, 2017, 12:13:25 PM »

From CAPP204: Each level contains Knowledge, Training, and Performance Requirements as well as Service Requirements that must be completed in order to attain each successive rating.

Room full of PD types that can't seem to read their own bloody guide....what's next?
Logged
Strup
"Belligerent....at times...."
AFRCC SMC 10-97
NSS ISC 05-00
USAF SOS 2000
USAF ACSC 2011
US NWC 2016
Майор Хаткевич
200,000th Post Author
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 6,075
Unit: GLR-IL-049

« Reply #27 on: May 05, 2017, 12:21:28 PM »

^this.

Reason why my CP Master is still aways off...took my sweet time getting Senior finished up.
Logged
Ozzy
Seasoned Member

Posts: 319
Unit: NY

NY-288 Squadron Website
« Reply #28 on: May 05, 2017, 01:53:22 PM »

Thrawn, I see what you are trying to show there but it doesn't say that they 'must be completed in order', it says it 'must be completed in order to'. Meaning the tasks need to be completed before being granted the rating, not that there is any prohibition from completing tasks before having the lower rating.
Logged
Ozyilmaz, TSgt, CAP
C/Lt. Colonel (Ret.)
SGT, ARNG (Out!)

NYWG Encampment 07, 08, 09, 10, (17)
CTWG Encampment 09, 11, 16
NER Cadet Leadership School 10
THRAWN
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,809

« Reply #29 on: May 05, 2017, 02:12:18 PM »

Thrawn, I see what you are trying to show there but it doesn't say that they 'must be completed in order', it says it 'must be completed in order to'. Meaning the tasks need to be completed before being granted the rating, not that there is any prohibition from completing tasks before having the lower rating.

You may be reading too much into it. In plain language, the way that it's written, it would appear that the intent is to do each of the tasks in the order that they're presented.

Personally, I agree with you. It's asinine to not give someone credit for a task that they've obviously mastered because it is further down a checksheet.
Logged
Strup
"Belligerent....at times...."
AFRCC SMC 10-97
NSS ISC 05-00
USAF SOS 2000
USAF ACSC 2011
US NWC 2016
Ozzy
Seasoned Member

Posts: 319
Unit: NY

NY-288 Squadron Website
« Reply #30 on: May 05, 2017, 02:16:05 PM »

Yeah... anyways, I consider the topic finished.
Logged
Ozyilmaz, TSgt, CAP
C/Lt. Colonel (Ret.)
SGT, ARNG (Out!)

NYWG Encampment 07, 08, 09, 10, (17)
CTWG Encampment 09, 11, 16
NER Cadet Leadership School 10
EMT-83
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,811

« Reply #31 on: May 05, 2017, 06:32:27 PM »

From CAPP204: Each level contains Knowledge, Training, and Performance Requirements as well as Service Requirements that must be completed in order to attain each successive rating.

Room full of PD types that can't seem to read their own bloody guide....what's next?

From CAPP204: Each level contains Knowledge, Training, and Performance Requirements as well as Service Requirements that must be completed in order to attain each successive rating.

Fixed it for you.
Logged
coudano
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,113

« Reply #32 on: May 05, 2017, 09:36:58 PM »

Some are a little fuzzy,

Take a look at this bit from IT Officer Senior Rating
Quote
The Information Technology Senior candidate should possess fundamental knowledge of the following:
1. Advanced information systems hardware and software
2. Troubleshooting and resolving of problems with common information systems.
3. Advanced operating systems knowledge including installation, configuration and troubleshooting.
4. Basic networking principles.
5. Intermediate security principles.

So yeah, I had said knowledge of all of these things, and a variety of professional certifications to prove it, before there ever was any such thing as an IT specialty track, at all.

Do I have to go out and re-acquire those knowledges after earning my technician rating?
That seems a bit silly, doesn't it?


Some explicitly state...

Take a look at ITO Senior Rating activity requirement
Quote
During the training period, the Information Technology Senior candidate must complete at least five of the following:

So yeah, that means during the time between finishing your technician rating and being awarded your senior, then you need to do these things.

Here's an example from ES Master

Quote
Participate in a minimum of six additional missions after qualification in an ES specialty and completion of the ESO Senior Rating

So yeah, I promise you, I completed well more than the total number of missions I ever needed for the whole track before I even became a senior member, let alone enrolled in ES...  However, this explicitly states that I have to have completed six MORE -SINCE- I earned my senior rating.

On the other hand, observe this from the CP Master Rating
Quote
Complete Level III of the Senior Member Professional Development program.

Suppose we already had level 3 complete before we ever even enrolled in CP...
Are you saying you have to go re-complete Level 3?

What about this?

Quote
Serve as a staff officer responsible for planning and conducting a significant
portion of the Training Leaders of Cadets or Required Staff Training.

So, suppose senior member snuffy carried majority weight to put on a RST for an encampment at which she was a TAC (perhaps a chief tac), while she was only Technician rated.

Does she have to put on -ANOTHER- TLC or RST after she has earned her senior rating?

In my opinion, no.
The one she did counts.




Here's how i've done my specialty tracks personally, and how I ask my people to do them now that i'm a squadron commander...

I compose a draft email, and in that email I list out all of the knowledge and service requirements for the specialty/level that i'm going for.  Then for the knowledge things I type out my "explanation" of that item demonstrating my knowledge of it, in writing.  For the service component, I actually list out the things I did, and when and where...  Then I save that draft, and anytime I have something to add to it, I just edit the draft, update the data, and save it again.

So for example in my draft email for ES Master, for the six missions since earning the senior rating I simply list
1. 17T4600 . 4 Apr 2017
2. 17T4601 . 3 Apr 2017
3. so on, and so forth

If there is a requirement like "Attend a breakout session at a conference" I'll write below that:
Georgia Wing Conference, Peachtree City GA Mar 2017



Once I have answered all of the knowledge and service based items, I'll send that email to the squadron commander and ask to have the skill level approved.  I'll archive a copy for my own records, and so will the squadron commander.  Then i'll start a draft email on the next thing i'm working toward.

It's worked well for me.
« Last Edit: May 05, 2017, 09:44:24 PM by coudano » Logged
coudano
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,113

« Reply #33 on: May 05, 2017, 09:39:12 PM »

From CAPP204: Each level contains Knowledge, Training, and Performance Requirements as well as Service Requirements that must be completed in order to attain each successive rating.

Room full of PD types that can't seem to read their own bloody guide....what's next?

From CAPP204: Each level contains Knowledge, Training, and Performance Requirements as well as Service Requirements that must be completed in order to attain each successive rating.

Fixed it for you.


Let me fix it for you again...

From CAPP204: Each level contains Knowledge, Training, and Performance Requirements as well as Service Requirements that must be completed in order to attain each successive rating.

Reworded,
In order to attain each successive rating, each skill level contains K, T, and PR as well as SR that must be completed.

It does not say

Each skill level contains K, T, and PR as well as SR that must be completed, in order, to attain each successive rating.

And if it did, then you'd open the door to having to do the first thing on the list first,
and the second thing on the list second...
So for Personnel Technician
Quote
Demonstrate the ability to process member applications in a timely fashion.
Demonstrate the ability to forward and monitor the processing of confidential screening.
Demonstrate how the candidate has ensured that new members appear in the membership database and receive their membership card in a timely fashion.
Set up a personnel log, and file folders for members,
Demonstrate how to assign members to duty assignments electrically and on paper.
Demonstrate how to process routine promotions electronically and on paper in a timely fashion.
Process routine award and decorations applications in a timely fashion.
Demonstrate the ability to find the proper wear instructions for uniform combinations frequently worn.
List three locations where members may acquire CAP uniforms and insignia.
Successfully complete the online CAPP 200 Test for Technican Rating.
Complete six (6) months experience as a Personnel Officer.
Dates of Service ________________ to ________________

God help you if you pass the test over CAPP 200 prior to Setting up a personnel log and file folders for members...
Logged
Pages: 1 [2]  All Print 
CAP Talk  |  General Discussion  |  Membership  |  Topic: Senior Level Specialty Track credit
 


Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP SMF 2.0.13 | SMF © 2016, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.306 seconds with 20 queries.