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CAP Talk  |  General Discussion  |  Membership  |  Topic: Senior Level Specialty Track credit
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Author Topic: Senior Level Specialty Track credit  (Read 2458 times)
Ozzy
Seasoned Member

Posts: 320
Unit: NY

NY-288 Squadron Website
« on: May 04, 2017, 02:33:13 PM »

Hey all, I tried looking up the answer for this but couldn't find it... Is training that you've completed​ applicable for credit for your specialty track? For example, I've been the PD officer for my unit for almost a year now, although I wasn't diligent with getting myself signed off for the tech rating, could I still have the tasks signed off for my Senior PD rating that I have completed?

I would hazard a guess yes since I haven't seen anything yet that states it needs to be completed as a tech-rated PD officer. What say you?
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Ozyilmaz, TSgt, CAP
C/Lt. Colonel (Ret.)
SGT, ARNG (Out!)

NYWG Encampment 07, 08, 09, 10, (17)
CTWG Encampment 09, 11, 16
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Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award
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Posts: 28,082

« Reply #1 on: May 04, 2017, 02:52:36 PM »

Yes. Wait what?

Done is done, but Tech has to be completed befor senior can be completed.
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"The man who does more than he is paid for will soon be paid for more than he does." - Napoleon Hill.
The contents of this post are Copyright © 2017 by eclipse. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.

Alaric
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 756

« Reply #2 on: May 04, 2017, 02:53:01 PM »

Hey all, I tried looking up the answer for this but couldn't find it... Is training that you've completed​ applicable for credit for your specialty track? For example, I've been the PD officer for my unit for almost a year now, although I wasn't diligent with getting myself signed off for the tech rating, could I still have the tasks signed off for my Senior PD rating that I have completed?

I would hazard a guess yes since I haven't seen anything yet that states it needs to be completed as a tech-rated PD officer. What say you?

Personally I would not approve it if you were in my squadron.  Poor performance on your part should not be rewarded.  Much like there is an order to ES qualifications there is an order to the specialty tracks.  Complete (and get signed off) as a technician and then move on to Senior especially as one of the things on the Senior checklist is that you spend a year as a technician
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Ozzy
Seasoned Member

Posts: 320
Unit: NY

NY-288 Squadron Website
« Reply #3 on: May 04, 2017, 03:34:30 PM »

Hey all, I tried looking up the answer for this but couldn't find it... Is training that you've completed​ applicable for credit for your specialty track? For example, I've been the PD officer for my unit for almost a year now, although I wasn't diligent with getting myself signed off for the tech rating, could I still have the tasks signed off for my Senior PD rating that I have completed?

I would hazard a guess yes since I haven't seen anything yet that states it needs to be completed as a tech-rated PD officer. What say you?

Personally I would not approve it if you were in my squadron.  Poor performance on your part should not be rewarded.  Much like there is an order to ES qualifications there is an order to the specialty tracks.  Complete (and get signed off) as a technician and then move on to Senior especially as one of the things on the Senior checklist is that you spend a year as a technician

Luckily I'm not then and I disagree with you saying this was poor performance and how the "poor performance" should not be rewarded. This is nothing about being rewarded and all about if a task is completed, if appropriate credit should be awarded. In ES, yes, tasks that you have previously completed are transferable to another (and higher) qualification, i.e. GTL tasks that have been completed as a GTM3, 2, and 1 all transfer to GTL and you only have to finish completing GTL specific tasks, you do not have to be reevaluated on those.

And thanks Eclipse, I know Tech needs to be completed before Senior can be completed as usually part of the Senior tasking is that you serve x# of time in a tech level capacity.
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Ozyilmaz, TSgt, CAP
C/Lt. Colonel (Ret.)
SGT, ARNG (Out!)

NYWG Encampment 07, 08, 09, 10, (17)
CTWG Encampment 09, 11, 16
NER Cadet Leadership School 10
Alaric
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 756

« Reply #4 on: May 04, 2017, 03:38:56 PM »

Hey all, I tried looking up the answer for this but couldn't find it... Is training that you've completed​ applicable for credit for your specialty track? For example, I've been the PD officer for my unit for almost a year now, although I wasn't diligent with getting myself signed off for the tech rating, could I still have the tasks signed off for my Senior PD rating that I have completed?

I would hazard a guess yes since I haven't seen anything yet that states it needs to be completed as a tech-rated PD officer. What say you?

Personally I would not approve it if you were in my squadron.  Poor performance on your part should not be rewarded.  Much like there is an order to ES qualifications there is an order to the specialty tracks.  Complete (and get signed off) as a technician and then move on to Senior especially as one of the things on the Senior checklist is that you spend a year as a technician

Luckily I'm not then and I disagree with you saying this was poor performance and how the "poor performance" should not be rewarded. This is nothing about being rewarded and all about if a task is completed, if appropriate credit should be awarded. In ES, yes, tasks that you have previously completed are transferable to another (and higher) qualification, i.e. GTL tasks that have been completed as a GTM3, 2, and 1 all transfer to GTL and you only have to finish completing GTL specific tasks, you do not have to be reevaluated on those.

And thanks Eclipse, I know Tech needs to be completed before Senior can be completed as usually part of the Senior tasking is that you serve x# of time in a tech level capacity.

You're the PD officer and didn't bother to get yourself signed off, as a PD officer myself that's pretty poor performance.  When I was referring to ES qualifications I meant prereqs which must be done before Fam & Prep which are signed off before advanced tasks.  But if your squadron, group, wing lets you get away with it, that's really out of my purview. 
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Eclipse
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Posts: 28,082

« Reply #5 on: May 04, 2017, 03:42:36 PM »

Be nice - you know very well a lot of people take care of everyone but themselves and then find themselves
hung out because no one was looking out for them.  BTDT
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"The man who does more than he is paid for will soon be paid for more than he does." - Napoleon Hill.
The contents of this post are Copyright © 2017 by eclipse. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.

Alaric
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 756

« Reply #6 on: May 04, 2017, 03:43:45 PM »

Be nice - you know very well a lot of people take care of everyone but themselves and then find themselves
hung out because no one was looking out for them.  BTDT

Then they pay the consequences, its what we teach cadets decisions and actions have consequences.  Learn to live with them
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kwe1009
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 758

« Reply #7 on: May 04, 2017, 03:46:18 PM »

There is no real order on how tasks must be completed for any specialty track.  You can complete a task for the senior or master rating and not even have a tech rating.  With that said, you can only earn the ratings in order (technician, senior, master).  The same is true for PD levels.  I actually had all requirements for level IV and V before I complete level III.  Once I completed level III I got the other 2 levels within a week.
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Alaric
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 756

« Reply #8 on: May 04, 2017, 03:48:49 PM »

There is no real order on how tasks must be completed for any specialty track.  You can complete a task for the senior or master rating and not even have a tech rating.  With that said, you can only earn the ratings in order (technician, senior, master).  The same is true for PD levels.  I actually had all requirements for level IV and V before I complete level III.  Once I completed level III I got the other 2 levels within a week.

Have a regulatory cite for that, or is an opinion?
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Ozzy
Seasoned Member

Posts: 320
Unit: NY

NY-288 Squadron Website
« Reply #9 on: May 04, 2017, 03:54:06 PM »

Hey all, I tried looking up the answer for this but couldn't find it... Is training that you've completed​ applicable for credit for your specialty track? For example, I've been the PD officer for my unit for almost a year now, although I wasn't diligent with getting myself signed off for the tech rating, could I still have the tasks signed off for my Senior PD rating that I have completed?

I would hazard a guess yes since I haven't seen anything yet that states it needs to be completed as a tech-rated PD officer. What say you?

Personally I would not approve it if you were in my squadron.  Poor performance on your part should not be rewarded.  Much like there is an order to ES qualifications there is an order to the specialty tracks.  Complete (and get signed off) as a technician and then move on to Senior especially as one of the things on the Senior checklist is that you spend a year as a technician

Luckily I'm not then and I disagree with you saying this was poor performance and how the "poor performance" should not be rewarded. This is nothing about being rewarded and all about if a task is completed, if appropriate credit should be awarded. In ES, yes, tasks that you have previously completed are transferable to another (and higher) qualification, i.e. GTL tasks that have been completed as a GTM3, 2, and 1 all transfer to GTL and you only have to finish completing GTL specific tasks, you do not have to be reevaluated on those.

And thanks Eclipse, I know Tech needs to be completed before Senior can be completed as usually part of the Senior tasking is that you serve x# of time in a tech level capacity.

You're the PD officer and didn't bother to get yourself signed off, as a PD officer myself that's pretty poor performance.  When I was referring to ES qualifications I meant prereqs which must be done before Fam & Prep which are signed off before advanced tasks.  But if your squadron, group, wing lets you get away with it, that's really out of my purview.

Again, how does not getting signed off mean poor performance? Being in a duty position does not mean you need to be actively working on that specialty track, I'm currently working on my CP Masters and Level 4 as well as my senior ES track.

And get away with what? You keep throwing these statements around but not clarifying them.
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Ozyilmaz, TSgt, CAP
C/Lt. Colonel (Ret.)
SGT, ARNG (Out!)

NYWG Encampment 07, 08, 09, 10, (17)
CTWG Encampment 09, 11, 16
NER Cadet Leadership School 10
kwe1009
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 758

« Reply #10 on: May 04, 2017, 03:55:13 PM »

There is no real order on how tasks must be completed for any specialty track.  You can complete a task for the senior or master rating and not even have a tech rating.  With that said, you can only earn the ratings in order (technician, senior, master).  The same is true for PD levels.  I actually had all requirements for level IV and V before I complete level III.  Once I completed level III I got the other 2 levels within a week.

Have a regulatory cite for that, or is an opinion?

I haven't seen anything that stated you can only sign off on the tasks for the level you are working on.  Do you have a reg to cite for your position?  If not the we are both simply giving opinions.
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Alaric
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 756

« Reply #11 on: May 04, 2017, 04:01:00 PM »

There is no real order on how tasks must be completed for any specialty track.  You can complete a task for the senior or master rating and not even have a tech rating.  With that said, you can only earn the ratings in order (technician, senior, master).  The same is true for PD levels.  I actually had all requirements for level IV and V before I complete level III.  Once I completed level III I got the other 2 levels within a week.

Have a regulatory cite for that, or is an opinion?

I haven't seen anything that stated you can only sign off on the tasks for the level you are working on.  Do you have a reg to cite for your position?  If not the we are both simply giving opinions.

I don't and you're correct we are just spouting opinions which means at the end of the day its up to the Chain of Command
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Ozzy
Seasoned Member

Posts: 320
Unit: NY

NY-288 Squadron Website
« Reply #12 on: May 04, 2017, 04:02:45 PM »

There is no real order on how tasks must be completed for any specialty track.  You can complete a task for the senior or master rating and not even have a tech rating.  With that said, you can only earn the ratings in order (technician, senior, master).  The same is true for PD levels.  I actually had all requirements for level IV and V before I complete level III.  Once I completed level III I got the other 2 levels within a week.

Have a regulatory cite for that, or is an opinion?

I haven't seen anything that stated you can only sign off on the tasks for the level you are working on.  Do you have a reg to cite for your position?  If not the we are both simply giving opinions.

There isn't a regulation that states that you can't. There is however the Specialty track guides that states "When the commander is satisfied that the student can perform to the level applied for and has  met  the  service  requirements,  s/he  records  award  of  the  rating  in  the  studentís  master  record  and  online  in  the  specialty  track administration module in E-Services."

As long as the commander is happy and approves then it's okay.

But y'know, there is precedence where you can complete PD schools before you need to and it'll apply to the level once you get to there. i.e National Staff college before having level 4 completed will still be applicable for level 5, you won't need to take it again when you have level 4 completed...
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Ozyilmaz, TSgt, CAP
C/Lt. Colonel (Ret.)
SGT, ARNG (Out!)

NYWG Encampment 07, 08, 09, 10, (17)
CTWG Encampment 09, 11, 16
NER Cadet Leadership School 10
Alaric
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 756

« Reply #13 on: May 04, 2017, 04:03:07 PM »

Hey all, I tried looking up the answer for this but couldn't find it... Is training that you've completed​ applicable for credit for your specialty track? For example, I've been the PD officer for my unit for almost a year now, although I wasn't diligent with getting myself signed off for the tech rating, could I still have the tasks signed off for my Senior PD rating that I have completed?

I would hazard a guess yes since I haven't seen anything yet that states it needs to be completed as a tech-rated PD officer. What say you?

Personally I would not approve it if you were in my squadron.  Poor performance on your part should not be rewarded.  Much like there is an order to ES qualifications there is an order to the specialty tracks.  Complete (and get signed off) as a technician and then move on to Senior especially as one of the things on the Senior checklist is that you spend a year as a technician

Luckily I'm not then and I disagree with you saying this was poor performance and how the "poor performance" should not be rewarded. This is nothing about being rewarded and all about if a task is completed, if appropriate credit should be awarded. In ES, yes, tasks that you have previously completed are transferable to another (and higher) qualification, i.e. GTL tasks that have been completed as a GTM3, 2, and 1 all transfer to GTL and you only have to finish completing GTL specific tasks, you do not have to be reevaluated on those.

And thanks Eclipse, I know Tech needs to be completed before Senior can be completed as usually part of the Senior tasking is that you serve x# of time in a tech level capacity.

You're the PD officer and didn't bother to get yourself signed off, as a PD officer myself that's pretty poor performance.  When I was referring to ES qualifications I meant prereqs which must be done before Fam & Prep which are signed off before advanced tasks.  But if your squadron, group, wing lets you get away with it, that's really out of my purview.

Again, how does not getting signed off mean poor performance? Being in a duty position does not mean you need to be actively working on that specialty track, I'm currently working on my CP Masters and Level 4 as well as my senior ES track.

And get away with what? You keep throwing these statements around but not clarifying them.

You're the PD officer, you couldn't be bothered to get your self signed off as a tech, but now want to get signed off on senior tasks.  To me (and like everyone else their just opinions) that's poor performance from a PD officer.

Get away with getting signed off on senior tasks without being a tech.

Clear now?
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Ozzy
Seasoned Member

Posts: 320
Unit: NY

NY-288 Squadron Website
« Reply #14 on: May 04, 2017, 04:10:22 PM »

You're the PD officer, you couldn't be bothered to get your self signed off as a tech, but now want to get signed off on senior tasks.  To me (and like everyone else their just opinions) that's poor performance from a PD officer.

Get away with getting signed off on senior tasks without being a tech.

Clear now?

Again, you can do a duty position without actively working on the rating. If the member at a later time wants to start working on the rating, they should get credit for tasks that they have completed and are able to substantiate. If the commander doesn't think it's kosher then they can always decline the rating approval and state why and how the member can rectify it.
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Ozyilmaz, TSgt, CAP
C/Lt. Colonel (Ret.)
SGT, ARNG (Out!)

NYWG Encampment 07, 08, 09, 10, (17)
CTWG Encampment 09, 11, 16
NER Cadet Leadership School 10
SarDragon
Global Moderator

Posts: 10,088
Unit: NAVAIRPAC

« Reply #15 on: May 04, 2017, 07:09:57 PM »

Well, it's been an SUI item in the past to verify that folks serving in specific positions are enrolled in the corresponding specialty track.

As for NSC before completing Level IV, here's what 50-17 says:

Quote
Personnel  desiring  to  attend  NSC  must  hold  the  grade  of  CAP  Major  or  above (this  is  not  waiverable),  OR  hold  the  grade  of  CAP  Senior  Master  Sergeant  or Chief  Master Sergeant AND have   attend Region   Staff   College (or   equivalent).
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Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret
EMT-83
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,825

« Reply #16 on: May 04, 2017, 09:50:31 PM »

A staff officer is not allowed to make up their own rules, especially when it can impede a member's progress. Any staff officer doing so should be subject to disciplinary action.
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arajca
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 4,169

« Reply #17 on: May 04, 2017, 10:25:23 PM »

Quote from: CAPR35-1, Para 1-2 b.
b. When assigned to an authorized duty position, the member will also be enrolled in the appropriate specialty track of the CAP Professional Development Program unless he/she has already earned the master's rating in that specialty.  When a member is assigned to more than one duty position, he/she will enroll in the specialty track for the primary duty.  Training in remaining specialties is encouraged. Note: For promotion purposes, the highest skill rating earned, in any specialty, will be considered, regardless of the member's skill level in his or her primary duty.

Staff officer enforcing rules, not making up rules.

On the other hand, having a specialty track rating does not mean you have to be assigned to the associated staff position. I had an Asst. IG that gave our unit a discrepancy because I was not in a PDO slot with my Master PDO rating. At the time, I was CDC (with a Master CP rating). Our PDO only had a senior PDO rating...
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EMT-83
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,825

« Reply #18 on: May 04, 2017, 11:03:27 PM »

Hey all, I tried looking up the answer for this but couldn't find it... Is training that you've completed​ applicable for credit for your specialty track? For example, I've been the PD officer for my unit for almost a year now, although I wasn't diligent with getting myself signed off for the tech rating, could I still have the tasks signed off for my Senior PD rating that I have completed?

I would hazard a guess yes since I haven't seen anything yet that states it needs to be completed as a tech-rated PD officer. What say you?

Personally I would not approve it if you were in my squadron.  Poor performance on your part should not be rewarded.  Much like there is an order to ES qualifications there is an order to the specialty tracks.  Complete (and get signed off) as a technician and then move on to Senior especially as one of the things on the Senior checklist is that you spend a year as a technician

Staff officer making up his own rules.
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kwe1009
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 758

« Reply #19 on: May 05, 2017, 06:05:30 AM »

I had an Asst. IG that gave our unit a discrepancy because I was not in a PDO slot with my Master PDO rating. At the time, I was CDC (with a Master CP rating). Our PDO only had a senior PDO rating...

Just curious but what reg reference was used to justify that discrepancy?  I'm not aware of any regulation requiring someone to hold a duty position for any reason regardless of their specialty track rating.  Sounds like a very overzealous IG.
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CAP Talk  |  General Discussion  |  Membership  |  Topic: Senior Level Specialty Track credit
 


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