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CAP NCO Question

Started by akennedy1984, November 28, 2016, 12:30:37 AM

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akennedy1984

Is it possible for someone who was an E-3 on Active Duty in the Air Force to join as an NCO in the CAP? I was asked and didn't know the answer to give.

Eclipse

#1
No.

CAPR 35-5, Page 18.
https://www.capmembers.com/media/cms/R035_005_489E25C089E93.pdf
"6.2.1. Currently, those CAP members who are military or former military NCOs and do not wish to be
considered for CAP officer grades may be appointed to a CAP NCO grade under provisions of this section.
The CAP initial grade granted will be equivalent to the grade held in the active duty military, Reserve or
National Guard. Current or former military members holding the grade E-4 that wish to hold a CAP NCO
grade will be appointed to the grade of SSgt after completion of Level I. NOTE: NCOs desiring to enter
the officer program must satisfy the requirements outlined in paragraph 1.6. and any additional
requirements the type of promotion being requested may require."

"That Others May Zoom"

akennedy1984

Thanks. Saw the reg already but wanted to verify as in the air force an E-4 is not an NCO.

Ozzy

#3
Right. The E-3 that asked you would have to wait until they make E-4.
Ozyilmaz, MSgt, CAP
C/Lt. Colonel (Ret.)
NYWG Encampment 07, 08, 09, 10, 17
CTWG Encampment 09, 11, 16
NER Cadet Leadership School 10
GAWG Encampment 18, 19
FLWG Winter Encampment 19

PHall

If they got out as an E-3 (A1C), you might to ask why.
Because it's not normal to leave the Air Force as an A1C.
Not saying they did something bad, but it's not normal.

lordmonar

Quote from: akennedy1984 on November 28, 2016, 12:30:37 AM
Is it possible for someone who was an E-3 on Active Duty in the Air Force to join as an NCO in the CAP? I was asked and didn't know the answer to give.
Despite what the regulations say.  Please direct your question up the chain to the National Command Chief.

PATRICK M. HARRIS, SMSgt, CAP

akennedy1984

Thanks for all of the replies. The person was discharged early for medical reasons and didn't complete their first enlistment term.

Either way I have passed the info on. Thanks again.

stillamarine

Quote from: PHall on November 28, 2016, 02:50:50 AM
If they got out as an E-3 (A1C), you might to ask why.
Because it's not normal to leave the Air Force as an A1C.
Not saying they did something bad, but it's not normal.

That's interesting. Very common in the Marines....there's even a comic about it  >:D
Tim Gardiner, 1st LT, CAP

USMC AD 1996-2001
USMCR    2001-2005  Admiral, Great State of Nebraska Navy  MS, MO, UDF
tim.gardiner@gmail.com

audiododd

Quote from: stillamarine on November 30, 2016, 02:07:55 AM
Quote from: PHall on November 28, 2016, 02:50:50 AM
If they got out as an E-3 (A1C), you might to ask why.
Because it's not normal to leave the Air Force as an A1C.
Not saying they did something bad, but it's not normal.

That's interesting. Very common in the Marines....there's even a comic about it  >:D

Terminal Lance - Love that strip!!

Unless you screw up and your commander doesn't recommend you, E-4 SrA is automatic at your 36-month point (earlier if you came in w/a stripe or 2, or got selected below-the-zone.) BUT, as mentioned before, E-4 SrA is not an NCO rank in the USAF (at least not since they did away w/ E-4 Sergeants back in the 90s.). Of course, there's always the option to lose a stripe or get out before your contract is up (medical, admin, disciplinary, 3"etc.)
Dodd Martin, MSgt, CAP
MSgt, USAF (Ret.)
Squadron NCO
Safety/Comm/Admin/Personnel/IT
TMP - MO - MS - MRO - MSO

Eclipse

Quote from: lordmonar on November 28, 2016, 06:38:10 AM
Despite what the regulations say. 

Why do so many CAP NCO discussions involve similar statements?

"That Others May Zoom"

lordmonar

Quote from: Eclipse on November 30, 2016, 04:48:45 AM
Quote from: lordmonar on November 28, 2016, 06:38:10 AM
Despite what the regulations say. 

Why do so many CAP NCO discussions involve similar statements?
Because Of CAP.    The change process is so slow that by the time changes are published we have two more changes in the pipeline.   Nothing new.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
PATRICK M. HARRIS, SMSgt, CAP

audiododd

Quote from: Eclipse on November 30, 2016, 04:48:45 AM
Quote from: lordmonar on November 28, 2016, 06:38:10 AM
Despite what the regulations say. 

Why do so many CAP NCO discussions involve similar statements?

I imagine that CAP, much like the Air Force, has wavers for almost anything!!  (I say, "I imagine" because I've not had nearly as much CAP experience as I've had USAF experience.  The typical Air Force answer is, "AFI xx-xxx says that you can't do that!  However, we can always request a waiver.  You just have to get the commander to sign off on it."
Dodd Martin, MSgt, CAP
MSgt, USAF (Ret.)
Squadron NCO
Safety/Comm/Admin/Personnel/IT
TMP - MO - MS - MRO - MSO

kwe1009

Quote from: lordmonar on November 30, 2016, 05:58:43 AM
Quote from: Eclipse on November 30, 2016, 04:48:45 AM
Quote from: lordmonar on November 28, 2016, 06:38:10 AM
Despite what the regulations say. 

Why do so many CAP NCO discussions involve similar statements?
Because Of CAP.    The change process is so slow that by the time changes are published we have two more changes in the pipeline.   Nothing new.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The delay is mainly due to the time consuming and expensive process of retyping the reg on a manual typewriter and getting multiple copies printed, bound and mailed to all CAP units.   

Oh wait, we haven't done that in well over a decade.  We just have to edit a Word document and convert it to PDF and get the General to sign it.  I have no idea why the change process is so slow, even for a volunteer organization.

TheSkyHornet

To further this discussion, the regulations provides a clearly process for transitioning from NCO to Officer. Is there a process for transitioning from Officer to NCO?

This goes along with another question: How time time-in-grade apply, based on CAPR 35-5, Figure 8?

I have a staff member who would like to go the NCO pipeline. He is current a 2d Lt because, when he joined, there was no protocol for a former E-4 in the Air Force to join the NCO track. His general training and service includes:
- Prior E-4 active duty
- 2.5 years in Civil Air Patrol (2 years as a 2d Lt come January)
- Level 1 completed
- Assigned to the CP Specialty Track with a Technician Rating achieved

Can he:
- Become a SSgt upon NHQ approving his status as an NCO in eServices?
- Become a TSgt upon completing SLS for Level II in the spring, or must he wait for 1 year as a SSgt in order to promote?

kwe1009

Quote from: TheSkyHornet on December 01, 2016, 07:35:02 PM
To further this discussion, the regulations provides a clearly process for transitioning from NCO to Officer. Is there a process for transitioning from Officer to NCO?

This goes along with another question: How time time-in-grade apply, based on CAPR 35-5, Figure 8?

I have a staff member who would like to go the NCO pipeline. He is current a 2d Lt because, when he joined, there was no protocol for a former E-4 in the Air Force to join the NCO track. His general training and service includes:
- Prior E-4 active duty
- 2.5 years in Civil Air Patrol (2 years as a 2d Lt come January)
- Level 1 completed
- Assigned to the CP Specialty Track with a Technician Rating achieved

Can he:
- Become a SSgt upon NHQ approving his status as an NCO in eServices?
- Become a TSgt upon completing SLS for Level II in the spring, or must he wait for 1 year as a SSgt in order to promote?

He must serve the minimum TIG as a SSgt before being eligible for TSgt.  I had a similar situation with a Major who decided to be an NCO and is now a TSgt.  His DOR for TSgt is the date the "promotion" was signed by his commander.  He currently meets all requirements for promotion to MSgt except TIG.

lordmonar

Quote from: TheSkyHornet on December 01, 2016, 07:35:02 PM
To further this discussion, the regulations provides a clearly process for transitioning from NCO to Officer. Is there a process for transitioning from Officer to NCO?

This goes along with another question: How time time-in-grade apply, based on CAPR 35-5, Figure 8?

I have a staff member who would like to go the NCO pipeline. He is current a 2d Lt because, when he joined, there was no protocol for a former E-4 in the Air Force to join the NCO track. His general training and service includes:
- Prior E-4 active duty
- 2.5 years in Civil Air Patrol (2 years as a 2d Lt come January)
- Level 1 completed
- Assigned to the CP Specialty Track with a Technician Rating achieved

Can he:
- Become a SSgt upon NHQ approving his status as an NCO in eServices?
- Become a TSgt upon completing SLS for Level II in the spring, or must he wait for 1 year as a SSgt in order to promote?
We are working on a recruiting matrix that would address this sort of thing.

As currently described he could be appointed a SSgt now.  I do not know what will happen to his TIG he has accumulated as a 2d Lt.
I will bring it to the attention of the Chief, who just asked for input before we finally push out the recruiting plan.

Thanks for the question.
PATRICK M. HARRIS, SMSgt, CAP

Sapper168

I just spoke to NHQ about this as I myself am going to transition from Capt. (about to finish level 3)  to NCO.  As it was told to me I would have to be a SSgt (former E-5) then fulfill time in grade for each grade before being promoted.  The only thing that counted was my PD levels.
Shane E Guernsey, TSgt, CAP
CAP Squadron ESO... "Who did what now?"
CAP Squadron NCO Advisor... "Where is the coffee located?"
US Army 12B... "Sappers Lead the Way!"
US Army Reserve 71L-f5... "Going Postal!"

Ozzy

Quote from: TheSkyHornet on December 01, 2016, 07:35:02 PM
To further this discussion, the regulations provides a clearly process for transitioning from NCO to Officer. Is there a process for transitioning from Officer to NCO?

As of 22 Nov 2016, yes. However it is a special event when a NCO become a squadron commander accepts a command appointment and chooses to promote to an officer while in the position. The member is then allowed to use the TIG including the time as an officer for their NCO grade when they leave the position and revert to the NCO grade.

Quote from: CAPR 35-5
6.4. NCO  Transition  to  Officer  Grades.   
NCOs accepting commander appointments will be eligible to transition to the officer grade commensurate with the commander position as outlined in paragraph 3.2., without meeting a Promotion Board. Upon completion of the command assignment, the member may return to their previous NCO status upon request, without meeting a promotion board. Time-in-grade served in the officer position may be used toward future NCO advancements.
,
Ozyilmaz, MSgt, CAP
C/Lt. Colonel (Ret.)
NYWG Encampment 07, 08, 09, 10, 17
CTWG Encampment 09, 11, 16
NER Cadet Leadership School 10
GAWG Encampment 18, 19
FLWG Winter Encampment 19

TheSkyHornet

Quote from: Ozzy on December 03, 2016, 03:47:46 PM
Quote from: TheSkyHornet on December 01, 2016, 07:35:02 PM
To further this discussion, the regulations provides a clearly process for transitioning from NCO to Officer. Is there a process for transitioning from Officer to NCO?

As of 22 Nov 2016, yes. However it is a special event when a NCO become a squadron commander accepts a command appointment and chooses to promote to an officer while in the position. The member is then allowed to use the TIG including the time as an officer for their NCO grade when they leave the position and revert to the NCO grade.

Quote from: CAPR 35-5
6.4. NCO  Transition  to  Officer  Grades.   
NCOs accepting commander appointments will be eligible to transition to the officer grade commensurate with the commander position as outlined in paragraph 3.2., without meeting a Promotion Board. Upon completion of the command assignment, the member may return to their previous NCO status upon request, without meeting a promotion board. Time-in-grade served in the officer position may be used toward future NCO advancements.
,

But this is a bit different than what we're looking at since this is not an NCO-to-Officer command appointment and then a reversal. This is an entry into CAP as a SMWG-to-Officer, and transitioning Officer-to-NCO with the November regulation change.

So, we're in the process of filling out the paperwork to get him switched over to stripes; I'll actually be filling it out tomorrow for the Commander's approval. Everyone seems to be on board with the change, and the officer of subject is looking forward to the change and has accepted the TIG requirements as they currently stand.

It'll be interesting seeing cadets be around an NCO more often (outside of the cadet grades); I think it's a good exposure since cadets in our region rarely interact with NCOs in CAP or Ma Blue. I'm hoping we get close to the Navy at some point and really confuse them  :P


Thanks, everyone!