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DJ Light Chop
Member

Posts: 75

« on: November 07, 2016, 01:20:10 PM »

I want to start working rocketry into my squadron.  Looking through the requirements I see for Titan level you need to have a rocket based on a historical rocket.  They recommend the Mercury Redstone.  Does anyone know of other rocket kits that are based on real life rockets?  Preferably some less expensive ones than the Redstone (since I'm planning on financing this out of my own pocket).
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arajca
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Posts: 4,139

« Reply #1 on: November 07, 2016, 01:39:26 PM »

There are a lot of them. Search for Estes rockets and retailers. Many of these retailers carry multiple lines of model rockets which offer even more choices. Look at local hobby shops as well. Find a local model rocket club and chat with them for more sources.
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GaryVC
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« Reply #2 on: November 07, 2016, 02:25:36 PM »

I want to start working rocketry into my squadron.  Looking through the requirements I see for Titan level you need to have a rocket based on a historical rocket.  They recommend the Mercury Redstone.  Does anyone know of other rocket kits that are based on real life rockets?  Preferably some less expensive ones than the Redstone (since I'm planning on financing this out of my own pocket).

Building a model of a historical rocket is the old requirement. It is no longer required in the second edition of the Model Rocketry book (which I received in a STEM kit). There is nothing to stop you from doing this, however.

You can download the current book from eServices here:
https://www.capnhq.gov/CAP.AEDownloads.Web/Modules/DownloadFiles.aspx
It is in the lower left corner (scroll down). It takes several minutes to download.
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DJ Light Chop
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Posts: 75

« Reply #3 on: November 07, 2016, 02:36:18 PM »

Good to know, I must have the old version.  Thank you.
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DJ Light Chop
Member

Posts: 75

« Reply #4 on: November 07, 2016, 02:37:19 PM »

<edit> Disregard that, I found the new one through another squadron's link.

http://www.capmembers.com/media/cms/Complete_Guide_F4ED514D80382.pdf
« Last Edit: November 07, 2016, 02:43:43 PM by JoshN » Logged
LTC Don
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JoCo CAP
« Reply #5 on: November 07, 2016, 04:27:10 PM »

'Historical' is pretty subjective.  I think one of the more popular, low-cost kits is the Patriot Missile, and that is the one that came in our STEM rocketry kit.  It may have changed, but certainly, the Patriot fits the 'historical' profile.

Not saying you won't find a better deal, but after a lot of looking for our last program, AC Supply is the best out there EXCEPT, for their flat rate shipping.  To take advantage of the pricing, you must purchase in bulk, or their shipping kills any single deal.  http://www.acsupplyco.com/home.htm

For the air powered option, we bought this system as a kit:
http://itsablast.com/cart/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=8&products_id=41   <And let me tell you, if you build the rockets using their templates, the performance is unreal.  We bought the kit, and let the cadets build the system themselves.  Powered with a bicycle pump.  Worked awesome.

Have fun!

« Last Edit: November 07, 2016, 04:40:11 PM by LTC Don » Logged
Donald A. Beckett, Lt Col, CAP
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Gill Rob Wilson #1891
THRAWN
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« Reply #6 on: November 07, 2016, 04:41:32 PM »

'Historical' is pretty subjective.  I think one of the more popular, low-cost kits is the Patriot Missile, and that is the one that came in our STEM rocketry kit.  It may have changed, but certainly, the Patriot fits the 'historical' profile.

Yes it does. Although I find that for home defense and to keep the neighbors in line, a 1:1 scale V2 has its benefit....

In all seriousness, this is a good discussion. My 2nd grader is starting to appreciate the exquisite art of model building and rocketry all at the same time. You're making my Christmas list.
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Strup
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AlphaSigOU
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The Kwaj Drafter!
« Reply #7 on: November 07, 2016, 07:13:34 PM »

Several scale straight-out-of-the-box kits are sold by model rocket manufacturers:

ESTES:

Mercury Redstone (approximately 1/35)
Saturn V (1/100)
Nike-Smoke (about 1/5)
Little Joe II (1/45)

APOGEE:

Saturn IB (1/70)
Saturn V (1/70)

I could also include some of the smaller manufacturers but the list would be quite large.




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Lt Col Charles E. (Chuck) Corway, CAP
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Spam
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« Reply #8 on: November 08, 2016, 03:10:47 PM »

Josh, it may no longer be a requirement, but its still a great idea from a teaching perspective and can spur some great discussion, if linked to a good AE curriculum.  Two "historical" rockets that we've built and shot recently:


The Honest John theater nuclear missile, available on line at a number of sources for under ten dollars per rocket for the mini variant (perhaps cheaper in bulk buys):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MGR-1_Honest_John
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cpJeyiDLPXA
https://www.estesrockets.com/media/instructions/002166_HONEST_JOHN.pdf
http://www.estesrockets.com/002446-mini-honest-john
I recommend it if you have a good number of cadets who need to build a first rocket, and you can link it to a discussion of the nuclear triad and how the MAD doctrine has evolved/been supplanted, as well as arms control and a discussion of how the US and Russia are both backing out of nuclear arms treaties and are developing new weapons as the cold war restarts (sits back, munches popcorn... lets cadets research AE current events briefings...).


The Patriot is a good option too (we shot a pair of these off last weekend) and you can do a quick AE current events presentation on IADS, the Patriot and THAADS and how THAADS is being deployed to Korea right now, with protests from the NKs and China:
http://www.estesrockets.com/002056-u-s-army-patriot-m-104tm


Then there are AGM-12 Bullpup kits, Apollo/Saturn V kits, et cetera all the way through your personal price range. I merely mention the cheap kits up front, since many units do a bulk buy.

Happy shooting!

V/r
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DJ Light Chop
Member

Posts: 75

« Reply #9 on: November 09, 2016, 06:15:49 PM »

My first rocketry class went well.  We did the practical stuff for the Redstone level (Alka-selterzers and Goddard foams).  The cadets really seemed to like it.  You might even say that they....had a blast.  YUK YUK YUK

I asked if they'd like to continue to level 2 and build the formal solid-fuel rockets and they all said yes.  So hopefully come springtime I will have a series of cadets getting awarded their Rocketry badges.
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GaryVC
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« Reply #10 on: November 09, 2016, 06:58:08 PM »

My problem has been getting the cadets to take the online test. 17 cadets launched foam rockets but only 2 have passed the test.
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Eclipse
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« Reply #11 on: November 09, 2016, 07:45:43 PM »

I've been wanting to make and try these, is there a reason not to?



Something like $.50 each.
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Spaceman3750
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« Reply #12 on: November 09, 2016, 09:11:34 PM »

I've been wanting to make and try these, is there a reason not to?



Something like $.50 each.

Seems like a fun basement project but not something I would want to try with cadets.

Also, aren't rocket motors regulated?
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RogueLeader
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« Reply #13 on: November 09, 2016, 09:51:41 PM »

That looks like fun. 

Yes, I'm sure that they are regulated, at least the factory manufactured ones are, but again, that he does mention getting all the right permits and to look into local rocket clubs.
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DJ Light Chop
Member

Posts: 75

« Reply #14 on: November 10, 2016, 03:52:46 PM »

It's funny, I just watched that video this morning.  I also like that guy's AK-47 styled paper-and-tape rocket project.  If I was a bit handier I might try to make it.

As far as getting them to test, I may wait until we have a week with nothing scheduled and then spring it on them.  "Surprise!  Its Rocket Test time!" and do an impromptu presentation on the Redstone educational material and have them test then and there (assuming I can find paper tests for it).
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RogueLeader
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« Reply #15 on: November 10, 2016, 05:23:35 PM »


As far as getting them to test, I may wait until we have a week with nothing scheduled and then spring it on them.  "Surprise!  Its Rocket Test time!" and do an impromptu presentation on the Redstone educational material and have them test then and there (assuming I can find paper tests for it).

Not that I'm trying to be criticizing (forewarning,) but I've never enjoyed having a test sprung on me at any point, and it can lead to bad ju ju.  Nor would I consider it proper to have nothing scheduled, it allows for inefficient meetings, (I've been there and done that too much.)  Do as you will, but please consider altering your strategy.
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GRW 3340
Spam
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« Reply #16 on: November 10, 2016, 06:49:30 PM »

On the tests:

- Plan a rocket build/shoot weekend
- Set up a couple of laptops
- In turns, Mentor each on where to find the reference material and on logging into the test
- If time permits, let them come back and attempt the test(s)

You may be surprised... I was, pleasantly. Also pleasantly surprised at having a cadet officer step up to my challenge to conduct a subsequent class (WITH the math) on calculating apogees, leading into an entry-level orbital mechanics class (i.e. the "don't kill the Kerbals" class).

Vr
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AlphaSigOU
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The Kwaj Drafter!
« Reply #17 on: November 23, 2016, 06:55:26 PM »

I've been wanting to make and try these, is there a reason not to?



Something like $.50 each.

Not for NAR-sanctioned launches, as they're considered 'amateur rockets' by their Safety Code.
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Lt Col Charles E. (Chuck) Corway, CAP
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Nellis Composite Squadron (PCR-NV-069)
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AlphaSigOU
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The Kwaj Drafter!
« Reply #18 on: November 23, 2016, 06:59:49 PM »

Low-power model rocket motors (1/4A-C) can be shipped in domestic mail (not Priority) as long as it's properly placarded 'FLAMMABLE SOLID'. Mid-power motors (D-G) will need to be shipped ground with an additional HAZMAT surcharge via UPS. High power (H and above) requires certification by either the NAR or Tripoli and you gotta deal with some serious HAZMAT shipping requirements.
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Lt Col Charles E. (Chuck) Corway, CAP
Gill Robb Wilson Award (#2901 - 2011)
Amelia Earhart Award (#1257 - 1982) - C/Major (retired)
Billy Mitchell Award (#2375 - 1981)
Administrative/Personnel/Professional Development Officer
Nellis Composite Squadron (PCR-NV-069)
KJ6GHO - NAR 45040
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CAP Talk  |  Operations  |  Aerospace Education  |  Topic: Model rockets of actual rockets
 


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