Hawk Mountain Ranger School

[Why Even]

I'm here to ask on how many Rangers are here? As everyone knows, Hawk Mountain is the best  so I want to see how many people here are Hawk graduates! I just finished my basic year, but I got my R1 so I'm probably doing either Romeo or Mike next year. What do you guys think I should do? (Please don't go off on Hawk, I know some people don't like it so if you don't, please don't post on this board. Thanks!)

[Eclipse]

Welcome to CAPTalk - you might want to spend some time with the Search tool.

Glad you had a good time at HMRS.

[PHall]

Ranger1146, you may be just a little surprised that not everyone here on CAPTalk and in CAP shares your opinion about Hawk Mountain.
So use the search function and be prepared for some serious blowback!

[capmaj]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

[Panzerbjorn]

My son is a graduate of Hawk, NESA, and PJOC.  That's the way to do it!  Get the perspective of multiple schools like that.  Doesn't leave the haters anywhere to go.

[Why Even]

My son is a graduate of Hawk, NESA, and PJOC.  That's the way to do it!  Get the perspective of multiple schools like that.  Doesn't leave the haters anywhere to go.

Awesome! I'm hopefully going to PJOC next year and I was told to apply for NESA staff by some other staff members so I'm hopefully doing that too as well as the Hawk Medic course!

[husker]

Generally, NESA will only take cadets on GSAR staff who are GTM1 rated and have previously attended the activity.  There are always exceptions - in fact this year I picked up a cadet from Illinois who worked out very well for us.  However, that is the exception, not the rule.

[Why Even]

Yup, thanks for the advice! I am GTM 1 already, plus I'm MRO, MSA, and UDF qualified. How rare is it for non graduates to be accepted on staff?

[Panzerbjorn]

Yup, thanks for the advice! I am GTM 1 already, plus I'm MRO, MSA, and UDF qualified. How rare is it for non graduates to be accepted on staff?

Let's go the Jesus route and answer your question with a question.  If you were in charge of Hawk Mountain, would you want someone on your staff teaching Ranger tasks to students who has never been to Hawk before?

Why not go to NESA and earn your Senior Ground Team badge?

[Why Even]

Because I am only 14 years old as of now and I already have GTM 1 😜

[Storm Chaser]

Just because you have a rating or qualification doesn't mean you know everything about that specialty. There's always something new to learn or additional practice to help improve your knowledge and skills. As with anything, attitude plays a big role. Keep working hard and learning everything you can and in time, when you're ready, you'll have plenty of opportunities to lead and train others.

[Panzerbjorn]

Because I am only 14 years old as of now and I already have GTM 1 😜

And what you would discover if you went to NESA GSAR school, is that even at 14, you are entitled to wear the Senior Ground Team badge if you attended a national school....like NESA.

True story...a few years ago, I was doing Air Operations Branch Director duties at NESA's Mission Aircrew School.  GSAR sent me two cadets to help out with the comms.  At MAS, classroom time is in the morning typically, and all the flying is done in the afternoon.  I kid you not, they spent all morning sitting in that air conditioned room with me talking about how boring this job was because they were just so used to the high paced environment on the ground side.  They bragged and bragged all morning long.  Now comes the afternoon and ten planes are launched in the air, all making their required radio calls to Mission Base.  They couldn't keep up, and just plain made a mess of things.  They lasted a total of one day before they were begging to go back to the other side.

The moral of that story is that you always have things to learn, and if Lt. Col. Long assigns you as a MRO to another school, you're probably not part of his A-Team....right, Husker?

So, go to NESA's GSAR school as an attendee to get the experience and try to stay off of Lt. Col. Long's special high intensity training list.

[Storm Chaser]

Because I am only 14 years old as of now and I already have GTM 1 [emoji12]

And what you would discover if you went to NESA GSAR school, is that even at 14, you are entitled to wear the Senior Ground Team badge if you attended a national school....like NESA.

The most recent CAPR 35-6 awards the Senior Ground Team Badge for completing GTL or GTM1 qualifications. Attending NESA is no longer required, although I would highly recommend it.

[Why Even]

Yeah, I was going to say I already have the senior one, but I still need GBD for the master rating.

[Spam]

Because I am only 14 years old as of now and I already have GTM 1 😜

Good job on continuing your training, Cadet. I highly recommend cross-pollination. When my people ask me, I recommend they attend NESA, as well as other Regional and Wing schools (e.g. Hawk, ALWG WESS, Pathfinder, etc.). The cross training and exposure to well experienced trainers' inputs are extremely valuable.  (Note: I said, "experienced" trainers, right? Otherwise, trainees might as well train at home, if amateurs are doing the teaching).

So, although I salute your energy and drive, I'd recommend you get some experience under your belt before seeking to be on staff (anywhere) as a national caliber trainer.  I am guessing you have (based on your age and cadet status) presumably no more than two years in CAP, with four ratings (meaning: lots of time budgeted in book/task learning, but probably few actual missions or real experience).  If you step back, and look at it from the above perspective, do you feel qualified to be on staff at a national ES academy to train people from this vast experience? It may be hard to hear, but you've just scratched the surface, having just earned your quals. With an open mind to continued learning - and some seasoning - I'd hope to work with you in the future.

Can't comment on your "Romeo or Mike" as I've never seen Hawk specific quals honored outside PAWG; certainly we don't recognize those (or the tabs, etc.) down here, although it probably is good training.


Best of luck to you, keep training. Its not about the bling, the scarves, the junk on the uniform and the pride - its about the customer.

V/R,
Spam

[Panzerbjorn]

Because I am only 14 years old as of now and I already have GTM 1 [emoji12]

And what you would discover if you went to NESA GSAR school, is that even at 14, you are entitled to wear the Senior Ground Team badge if you attended a national school....like NESA.

The most recent CAPR 35-6 awards the Senior Ground Team Badge for completing GTL or GTM1 qualifications. Attending NESA is no longer required, although I would highly recommend it.

Thank you for proving my point.  Even when you're as experienced as I am, you still can learn things.  So, get to NESA and learn something.  It's in your backyard.

[Panzerbjorn]

Yup, thanks for the advice! I am GTM 1 already, plus I'm MRO, MSA, and UDF qualified. How rare is it for non graduates to be accepted on staff?

Oh, one more piece of advice....This is how you responded to the NESA GSAR Commadant addressing you.  So, by addressing the Commadant as such, you probably blew your "exception, rather than the rule" opportunity out of the water. Here's how that response really should have gone...

"Yes sir.  Thank you for the response.  I am very interested in serving on your staff, and I have my GTM1, MRO, MSA, and UDF qualifications.  If attending your school would help secure a position on staff, I look forward to doing that.  Is there any other advice you could give that would make me a more ideal staff member?"

That's just my experience opinion.

[Why Even]

Thanks for the advice! 😳

[Why Even]

Because I am only 14 years old as of now and I already have GTM 1 😜

Good job on continuing your training, Cadet. I highly recommend cross-pollination. When my people ask me, I recommend they attend NESA, as well as other Regional and Wing schools (e.g. Hawk, ALWG WESS, Pathfinder, etc.). The cross training and exposure to well experienced trainers' inputs are extremely valuable.  (Note: I said, "experienced" trainers, right? Otherwise, trainees might as well train at home, if amateurs are doing the teaching).

So, although I salute your energy and drive, I'd recommend you get some experience under your belt before seeking to be on staff (anywhere) as a national caliber trainer.  I am guessing you have (based on your age and cadet status) presumably no more than two years in CAP, with four ratings (meaning: lots of time budgeted in book/task learning, but probably few actual missions or real experience).  If you step back, and look at it from the above perspective, do you feel qualified to be on staff at a national ES academy to train people from this vast experience? It may be hard to hear, but you've just scratched the surface, having just earned your quals. With an open mind to continued learning - and some seasoning - I'd hope to work with you in the future.

Can't comment on your "Romeo or Mike" as I've never seen Hawk specific quals honored outside PAWG; certainly we don't recognize those (or the tabs, etc.) down here, although it probably is good training.


Best of luck to you, keep training. Its not about the bling, the scarves, the junk on the uniform and the pride - its about the customer.

V/R,
Spam

Yup! (Mike is the Medic course, and Romeo is the staff training course) I'm hope fully staffing my local encampment next summer as well as the Texas Wing Encampment for staff. I was especially considering the NESA wilderness first aid course, as I love doing first aid!

[Why Even]

Because I am only 14 years old as of now and I already have GTM 1 😜

Best of luck to you, keep training. Its not about the bling, the scarves, the junk on the uniform and the pride - its about the customer.

That is one piece of criticism that I agree for Hawk. A lot of people just go there cause they want the Ranger tab, instead of trying to learn more and honestly wanting to know the skills that they taught there. I think the Ranger tabs are cool and all, but honestly I'd rather have it go on my 101 card than my uniform. I know a lot of people from hawk will disagree with me there, but that's my opinion. (Oh, and all of the talk about how all Hawk graduates think they are better than everyone and are the "elite" part of CAP is ridiculous since that's only about 25% of the cadets there.)