Senior Members - College experience?

[mikeylikey]

I am new to CAP and the Air Force atmosphere, but I suppose you can compare this to the Army with which I have experience and the fact that for the most part, you only see combat arms officers reach the general officer ranks.

Yes you will have unit commanders of the various support and service support branches, but as you get up there, you are very limited if you are not combat arms.

I too am more familiar with the Army, but I would imagine it's similar in the other services.  It's not so much that you aren't allowed to hold those positions without the experience, but it's very unlikely.  When those commands are assigned, it's much more likely to go to someone who has the experience.

For instance, you're not going to give the command of a combat arms unit to a logistics officer unless that's your only choice.  That officer may do well, but he has no experience to show that.

Is that like giving the Command of Ground forces in Iraq and Afghanistan to a Navy Guy.  When was the last time he actually left his boat and invaded another country. 

[O-Rex]

According to the poll, lots of Grads in CAP. . .

Degree required, or at least some College for advancement?  The idea has merit, but it wouldn't fly: might be seen as a barrier to prospective members.

What alot of folks don't realize is that many AFIADL courses are sources of ACE-recommended credits, particularly SOS.  ACSC is worth 8-12 at the grad level.

Me? Got my degree on the "ten-year plan."  Slow & steady wins the race.

[arajca]

What alot of folks don't realize is that many AFIADL courses are sources of ACE-recommended credits, particularly SOS.  ACSC is worth 8-12 at the grad level.

And I plan to use them. Actually, ACSC has a DL variant that IS a graduate degree. CAP members should be eligible for it early-mid 2008.

[SAR-EMT1]

Well would we be eligible if we have only an Associates? Or only a few college credits?
Would the Masters turn INTO an Associates or a Bachelors?

Or would those without a BS BA be forced to enroll in the current ACSC course?

[DeputyDog]

Well would we be eligible if we have only an Associates? Or only a few college credits?

I looked through the site and couldn't find anything that addresses that. Generally, in order to be an officer in the Air Force, you already have to have a bachelor's degree. They will probably address the issue of CAP officers without bachelor's degrees being eligible for the Master's program as it gets closer to mid to early 2008 (although I doubt they would offer it to personnel without bachelor's degrees).

Would the Masters turn INTO an Associates or a Bachelors?

Most likely not. The program is accredited for master's degrees. Associate's and bachelor's degrees are fundamentally different from a master's degree (bachelor's degree is more generalized, while a master's degree is more specialized).

Or would those without a BS BA be forced to enroll in the current ACSC course?

I'd lay my money on that.

Also, those who already have a master's degree will be ineligible to enroll in the master's program. Which sucks....because I was planning on going through the master's program for ACSC. I will have my first master's degree this December. I guess I will go through the regular program.

[DeputyDog]

A.A. in General Studies
B.S. in Criminology

I will complete my first M.S. in December (I have one more class to take).

I have to get a second M.S. because the Ph.D program (Criminology) that I want to get into will not accept my first one. I only have to take 24 more hours to get my second M.S.

I am sick of school.

I can now add a "M.S. in Administrative Studies- Criminal Justice Option" to my list (as of last week). 

[Trung Si Ma]

I can now add a "M.S. in Administrative Studies- Criminal Justice Option" to my list (as of last week). 

Congrats

[JohnKachenmeister]

Well would we be eligible if we have only an Associates? Or only a few college credits?

I looked through the site and couldn't find anything that addresses that. Generally, in order to be an officer in the Air Force, you already have to have a bachelor's degree. They will probably address the issue of CAP officers without bachelor's degrees being eligible for the Master's program as it gets closer to mid to early 2008 (although I doubt they would offer it to personnel without bachelor's degrees).

Would the Masters turn INTO an Associates or a Bachelors?

Most likely not. The program is accredited for master's degrees. Associate's and bachelor's degrees are fundamentally different from a master's degree (bachelor's degree is more generalized, while a master's degree is more specialized).

Or would those without a BS BA be forced to enroll in the current ACSC course?

I'd lay my money on that.

Also, those who already have a master's degree will be ineligible to enroll in the master's program. Which sucks....because I was planning on going through the master's program for ACSC. I will have my first master's degree this December. I guess I will go through the regular program.

My recommendation was:

1.  2 years of college/Associate degree, OR

2.  Completion of a trade school consisting of at least 900 clock hours duration., OR

3.  Private Pilot rating or higher.

[Dragoon]

To harp on an old point - tell me what you expect duties you will demand from a CAP officer, and I'll tell you if he needs college to perform those duties.

[JohnKachenmeister]

Reading and writing would be a start!

In college, and any other post-secondary educational endeavor, you are required to analyze the requirements to complete your course of study, come up with a plan to meet those requirements, execute the plan over a period of time, and monitor your progress toward that completion.  During the execution phase of that plan, you are required to complete several subordinate tasks, such as term paper, study for examinations, and organize all other life activities around completition of the education plan.  This develops time management skills, and an appreciation for deadlines.

These are all officer-related skills. 

[ricecakecm]

BS - Aviation Technology
MS - Aviation Safety

[Flying Pig]

by JohnKachenmeister
In college, and any other post-secondary educational endeavor, you are required to analyze the requirements to complete your course of study, come up with a plan to meet those requirements, execute the plan over a period of time, and monitor your progress toward that completion.  During the execution phase of that plan, you are required to complete several subordinate tasks, such as term paper, study for examinations, and organize all other life activities around completition of the education plan.  This develops time management skills, and an appreciation for deadlines.

These are all officer-related skills. 

True, and necessary for that  22 year old Officer candidate who just moved out on his own for the first time and is lacking any real world life experience.

For a CAP Officer???

I spent 8 years in the Infantry.  Went on to be a law enforcement officer where I have been for 10 years.  Ive done SWAT, Training Officer, SWAT-EMT, Dope and gang teams and am SWAT Instructor.  Ive been a Sheriff's Aircrew member for 3 years and now a Department Pilot Trainee.  I have a Commercial-Instrument Airplane rating along with a Private helicopter and glider rating.
Ive been in CAP for about 12 years (cadet time included) and served as a the Deputy Commander for Seniors, Deputy Commander for Cadets, ES and Leadership Officer.  Ive been on numerous SAR's as a Deputy Flight Officer and a couple as a CAP aircrew member.  I am a Transport Mission Pilot and in the CD program. I am now working towards my Mission Pilot qual.  Im 32 years old.   I own a house and have been married to the same woman for over 10 years and have 2 critters...not to mention a pretty darn good credit rating!

According to some of you and your "recommendations", I wouldn't or shouldnt be qualified to be a CAP officer? 

Gosh....If only I had a degree, maybe I could have been somebody.

[KFreeman]

BBA - St. John's University

Did one semester at Tarlton State to qualify as Reserve Office.

Did one semester at Ben Gurion University, Beershiva, Israel in Archaeology. Pure Fun !

Ken Freeman, COL
HQ ASDF J-7
Air Command Section

[thefischNX01]

I'm currently in college.  I'm studying Political Science with an eye towards East Asia.

Just finished up the first semester of my junior year. 

[wuzafuzz]

AA - Administration of Justice
BS - Computer Information Systems Management

A degree requirement for CAP officers?  Negative. 

I completed my BS almost 20 years after high school.  In the meantime I held a variety of professional positions including police officer, crime scene technician, systems administrator, as well as jobs in airport operations and crash rescue.  All were professional positions equalling or surpassing the expectations of CAP officers.  Finishing the degree was really nice but it didn't instill or create "officer related skills." Those were already earned thanks to the school of hard knocks.

Requiring a degree for young military officers is one thing.  As with many professions, requiring a degree limits the applicant pool to those with a better chance of success in the job.  Their relative lack of life experience leaves little else to judge them by. In contrast, many CAP members are more seasoned when they join.  Limiting their volunteer opportunities based on formal education, or lack thereof, is unnecessary and may deny CAP the benefit of their potentially valuable experiences.

That's my story and I'm stickin' to it!

[The Hawk]

M.S. Health Physics - Georgia Institute of Technology
M.S., Nuclear Engineering - Iowa State University

[dhon27]

B.A.-Psychology, University of New Hampshire
J.D.-Seton Hall University

I too am against a degree requirement for CAP officers.  I don't know what the percentage is, but nowadays I believe a lot of the RM enlisted folks have degrees.  So, there is something more to becoming an officer than simply having a college degree.  Imposing a degree requirement on CAP officers would just be the imposition of a meaningless threshold IMHO.

[JohnKachenmeister]

by JohnKachenmeister
In college, and any other post-secondary educational endeavor, you are required to analyze the requirements to complete your course of study, come up with a plan to meet those requirements, execute the plan over a period of time, and monitor your progress toward that completion.  During the execution phase of that plan, you are required to complete several subordinate tasks, such as term paper, study for examinations, and organize all other life activities around completition of the education plan.  This develops time management skills, and an appreciation for deadlines.

These are all officer-related skills. 

True, and necessary for that  22 year old Officer candidate who just moved out on his own for the first time and is lacking any real world life experience.

For a CAP Officer???

I spent 8 years in the Infantry.  Went on to be a law enforcement officer where I have been for 10 years.  Ive done SWAT, Training Officer, SWAT-EMT, Dope and gang teams and am SWAT Instructor.  Ive been a Sheriff's Aircrew member for 3 years and now a Department Pilot Trainee.  I have a Commercial-Instrument Airplane rating along with a Private helicopter and glider rating.
Ive been in CAP for about 12 years (cadet time included) and served as a the Deputy Commander for Seniors, Deputy Commander for Cadets, ES and Leadership Officer.  Ive been on numerous SAR's as a Deputy Flight Officer and a couple as a CAP aircrew member.  I am a Transport Mission Pilot and in the CD program. I am now working towards my Mission Pilot qual.  Im 32 years old.   I own a house and have been married to the same woman for over 10 years and have 2 critters...not to mention a pretty darn good credit rating!

According to some of you and your "recommendations", I wouldn't or shouldnt be qualified to be a CAP officer? 

Gosh....If only I had a degree, maybe I could have been somebody.

Apparently, Bob, you didn't read my recommendations.

I recommended:

2 years of college toward a Bachelors,  OR

Associate Degree, OR

Trade school of 900 clock hours duration (If your basic police academy didn't quite qualify, your subsequent training would boost it up past 900 hours, I'm sure.) OR

Private pilot or higher  (You indicate you got that).

So chill.  I never said you were not qualified. 

But consider the guy who:

Finished high school.

Lived to be 21,

And that's all.

Do we want a guy like that running a unit, advising cadets, and representing us?  It is guys like that who give CAP about 90 percent of our problems.

[wuzafuzz]

by JohnKachenmeister
In college, and any other post-secondary educational endeavor, you are required to analyze the requirements to complete your course of study, come up with a plan to meet those requirements, execute the plan over a period of time, and monitor your progress toward that completion.  During the execution phase of that plan, you are required to complete several subordinate tasks, such as term paper, study for examinations, and organize all other life activities around completition of the education plan.  This develops time management skills, and an appreciation for deadlines.

These are all officer-related skills. 

True, and necessary for that  22 year old Officer candidate who just moved out on his own for the first time and is lacking any real world life experience.

For a CAP Officer???

I spent 8 years in the Infantry.  Went on to be a law enforcement officer where I have been for 10 years.  Ive done SWAT, Training Officer, SWAT-EMT, Dope and gang teams and am SWAT Instructor.  Ive been a Sheriff's Aircrew member for 3 years and now a Department Pilot Trainee.  I have a Commercial-Instrument Airplane rating along with a Private helicopter and glider rating.
Ive been in CAP for about 12 years (cadet time included) and served as a the Deputy Commander for Seniors, Deputy Commander for Cadets, ES and Leadership Officer.  Ive been on numerous SAR's as a Deputy Flight Officer and a couple as a CAP aircrew member.  I am a Transport Mission Pilot and in the CD program. I am now working towards my Mission Pilot qual.  Im 32 years old.   I own a house and have been married to the same woman for over 10 years and have 2 critters...not to mention a pretty darn good credit rating!

According to some of you and your "recommendations", I wouldn't or shouldnt be qualified to be a CAP officer? 

Gosh....If only I had a degree, maybe I could have been somebody.

Apparently, Bob, you didn't read my recommendations.

I recommended:

2 years of college toward a Bachelors,  OR

Associate Degree, OR

Trade school of 900 clock hours duration (If your basic police academy didn't quite qualify, your subsequent training would boost it up past 900 hours, I'm sure.) OR

Private pilot or higher  (You indicate you got that).

So chill.  I never said you were not qualified. 

But consider the guy who:

Finished high school.

Lived to be 21,

And that's all.

Do we want a guy like that running a unit, advising cadets, and representing us?  It is guys like that who give CAP about 90 percent of our problems.

So a 17 year old who completed his or her private pilot certificate would be good to go, but an experienced business owner without college or trade school is unworthy? 

I understand the desire for some sort of meaningful measure to be an officer, especially one who leads cadets or commands a unit, but there are numerous ways to acquire the necessary CAP officer skills.  Ultimately though, why do we need to be so exclusive?  There are plenty of successful, responsible people who would not meet those requirements; and plenty of knuckle-heads who would.

Maybe turning Level 1 training into something more meaningful would help reduce the knuckle-head ratio.  "Instant bling" for so many off the street folks is a serious goofball magnet. 

[bosshawk]

BA in American History and English
MA in International Relations
45 hours beyond a Masters.