ID Cards

[William K. Bolan]

After talking to a Coasty Auxiliary person on another forum, I have learned a lot. 

Maybe the future generations can make the argument to align us more with the Air Force and stop the half and half thing.  I mean, it's been done before... we dropped torpedoes on target at one time and the Coast Guard has apparently figured out how to do it effectively.  I know we are never to serve in a combat role again but I'm just thinking out loud here. 

Now I'm really going to stir the pot  ... maybe... just maybe, our officers should have an education requirement like NOAA and Merchant Marine officers do (like us, neither of them are the military and not allowed into combat).  Like a real commission.   CAP would function just fine with seniors filling roles that don't meet that requirement (we could see the NCO Corp come back... scary) and the ones that do... well, they truly would be the leaders of the "force" and would probably be listened to a little more from our counterparts.  CG Aux. officers are far and few between and serve in pretty important roles.  They also have a lot more respect from the active CG too.  We would really have to do some lessons learned stuff and start taking our role more seriously.  We want to wear the blue uniform, we should represent it appropriately.   Then, we can stop calling it Civil Air Patrol and start calling it The Air Force Auxiliary for reals.

Flame on ladies and gentlemen.  Flame on.   

[RRLE]

CG Aux. officers are far and few between and serve in pretty important roles.

I churn CGAux stats for a hobby.  RiverAux also follows them. At any given time, at least 1/3 of the CGAux are currently serving officers, either elected or appointed. CGAux officers hold office, not rank. The insignia is office insignia not rank insignia.

If you then throw in the past officers, who are allowed to wear their highest office attained, so long as they held it for more than half a term, then a huge chunk of the CGAux can walk around wearing "stars, bars, chickens or leaves". Past officers have to wear the Past Officer Device, if the insignia they are wearing is not their current office.

Someone asked about Robert. If you mean Robert "D", I last emailed him about a year ago. He graduated law school and was admitted to the Texas Bar. He has his own law practice. I believe his specialties are family law and law related to the disabled. Robert "D" designed and got approved the current CGAux ID.

[NIN]

Maybe we could have a nice ID card like they have for when we are the USAF Auxiliary? The rest of the time we use the crappy one we have now...

Two sided perhaps? Nice and official looking on one side, inkjet printed on the other.

I had one of those on my flightsuit last night

[THRAWN]

Always did like that guy....can never have too many law talkin guys in the family..

http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/local_news/article/Blind-law-school-graduate-turns-the-world-on-its-4122641.php

[NIN]

I feel that we should be considered airmen under our own corporation. no half and half.

How do you guys feel about if we were to become paid, and cap become a job? Just curious. Me, I'd like it.

Who would pay us? 

[Ned]

Out of curiosity, on average how often do each of us have to show our ID cards to anyone outside of CAP?

I've been in for 40+ years (pretty active all things considered) and I'd have to say that I have to show it less than once a year.  IOW, I've had a number of ID cards that never saw daylight before they were replaced.

My guess would be that members who meet on a military installation might have to show it every week plus the occasional Clothing Sales run, but what about the rest of us?

Anyone?

[Garibaldi]

Out of curiosity, on average how often do each of us have to show our ID cards to anyone outside of CAP?

I've been in for 40+ years (pretty active all things considered) and I'd have to say that I have to show it less than once a year.  IOW, I've had a number of ID cards that never saw daylight before they were replaced.

My guess would be that members who meet on a military installation might have to show it every week plus the occasional Clothing Sales run, but what about the rest of us?

Anyone?

I've only shown it in house, at SAREXs. I don't take advantage of discounts when I buy at a surplus shop, so pretty much never outside CAP. Or the couple of occasions I need to get into Dobbins to pick up our COV. So, all told maybe 3 times a year. Possibly less.

[William K. Bolan]

United States Govt. NOT Air Force paying us. Payment like weekly pay or biweekly. 500+ weekly or biweekly

[William K. Bolan]

outside of CAP I am not sure who would need to see our ID cards

[THRAWN]

Out of curiosity, on average how often do each of us have to show our ID cards to anyone outside of CAP?

I've been in for 40+ years (pretty active all things considered) and I'd have to say that I have to show it less than once a year.  IOW, I've had a number of ID cards that never saw daylight before they were replaced.

My guess would be that members who meet on a military installation might have to show it every week plus the occasional Clothing Sales run, but what about the rest of us?

Anyone?

It varies. Weekly (sometimes more) when I was with units on bases. Monthly when I had to hit the ANG station to do PME tests. Occasionally for car rentals or other discounts. On average, I'd say 3-5 times per month.

[THRAWN]

outside of CAP I am not sure who would need to see our ID cards

Then why are you so concerned about what they're made of and how they look?

[jeders]

United States Govt. NOT Air Force paying us. Payment like weekly pay or biweekly. 500+ weekly or biweekly

If we got regular paychecks for doing CAP, then why would the Air Force keep us around? If you want to get paid for doing this, go join the military.

[Garibaldi]

United States Govt. NOT Air Force paying us. Payment like weekly pay or biweekly. 500+ weekly or biweekly

Our FECA (unemployment compensation) pay rate is something like a GS-9, which is like $24 an hour. I guess it would be OK for a pay-per-play basis. But, that only applies if we are injured on an AFAM. If we were paid for what we are worth, it would be much less. I would say around $10 to $15 an hour, for those hours we are actually on the clock. Still cheaper than the guard/reserve, but do you expect Uncle Sam to fork out more money?

[NIN]

Still cheaper than the guard/reserve, but do you expect Uncle Sam to fork out more money?

That was kind of my point.  The government gives the Air Force (via appropriations) the money for CAP already.

But its not like the Federal Government has a gigantic pot of money they'd be likely to break out and say "Oh, look, we have a few million here that we're not doing anything with.. how about we pay those nice Civil Air Patrol people so they can do more of their Missions for America?"

[goblin]

United States Govt. NOT Air Force paying us. Payment like weekly pay or biweekly. 500+ weekly or biweekly

If we got regular paychecks for doing CAP, then why would the Air Force keep us around? If you want to get paid for doing this, go join the military.

This.

You want to dress like the Air Force? Get paid by the Air Force? Have ID cards like the Air Force?

Easy. Join the Air Force.

CAP is great for what it is; and the fact that the Air Force can use us cheaply and effectively when necessary is the whole point of our existence.

[Garibaldi]

Still cheaper than the guard/reserve, but do you expect Uncle Sam to fork out more money?

That was kind of my point.  The government gives the Air Force (via appropriations) the money for CAP already.

But its not like the Federal Government has a gigantic pot of money they'd be likely to break out and say "Oh, look, we have a few million here that we're not doing anything with.. how about we pay those nice Civil Air Patrol people so they can do more of their Missions for America?"

More like: "We have a few million we're not doing anything with. Let's have a feasibility study on some new stealth weapons, or better MREs, or making our swivel chairs move better."
"Sir, what about the Civil Air Patrol? They could use some more money."
"The what now? Swivel...chair....what?"
"They are part of the total force now. They could use some extra bucks for uniforms and training."
"Never heard of them. Anyway, how about lunch? I'm thinking a catered lunch from Subway. Order us some of those giant sandwiches. And don't be stingy with the tip!"

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

What ever happened to Robert?

I remember him from the CGAux forum on military.com.  He is a nonsighted person who is now an attorney, but I don't know if he's still an Auxiliarist.

As someone who has been a member of both organisations (CAP and CGAux), I wouldn't necessarily define which one is "better" overall, but there are some very sharp differences, not least the perception of parent services.

CG knows who their Auxiliarists are.  Outside of top brass and local bases, most in the AF don't know/don't care about CAP.

No cadets in CGAux, but NSCC gets a fair bit of support from the CG.

No ranks in CGAux, but a lot of confusing alphabet-soup "office symbols."

Auxiliarists do not salute one another, but do salute commissioned/warrant officers and are probably more often saluted by military personnel.

Much more direct oversight by parent service. 

Concept of Form 2B nonexistent in CGAux.  Most personnel issues have to go through CG.

About .0001% of uniform controversies in CGAux viz. CAP, though there are small numbers of CGAux who would ditch the CG uniform altogether.  "Fat and fuzzies" not prohibited from wearing CG uniform.

CGAux can be awarded many CG ribbons/medals in addition to their own.  CAP is not permitted award of AF medals, not even civilian ones.

Leaders are mostly elected in CGAux.  I often felt odd with "Ensign" or "LTJG" type insignia addressing a four-piston-ring "Captain" by first name.

ALL missions issued by CG

No AUXON/AUXOFF

Never heard any apocryphal stories of CGAux demanding salutes from military.

You decide.

[William K. Bolan]

Still cheaper than the guard/reserve, but do you expect Uncle Sam to fork out more money?

That was kind of my point.  The government gives the Air Force (via appropriations) the money for CAP already.

But its not like the Federal Government has a gigantic pot of money they'd be likely to break out and say "Oh, look, we have a few million here that we're not doing anything with.. how about we pay those nice Civil Air Patrol people so they can do more of their Missions for America?"

More like: "We have a few million we're not doing anything with. Let's have a feasibility study on some new stealth weapons, or better MREs, or making our swivel chairs move better."
"Sir, what about the Civil Air Patrol? They could use some more money."
"The what now? Swivel...chair....what?"
"They are part of the total force now. They could use some extra bucks for uniforms and training."
"Never heard of them. Anyway, how about lunch? I'm thinking a catered lunch from Subway. Order us some of those giant sandwiches. And don't be stingy with the tip!"

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

CAP was paid in WWII.

My first squadron had an older member (now deceased) whose brother served in the WWII CAP, I think as an airfield guard.  I don't know how much he was paid, but he was paid.

If I were still in CAP, I wouldn't want monetary compensation...just a little recognition.

I doubt that many retired military who join CAP, the CGAUX (I'm betting the Temporary Reserve was paid in WWII as well) or most SDF's (some are paid if called up, but that is rare) would want that either, since it would likely interfere with their retirement benefits.

[William K. Bolan]

I'm not suggesting that we get paid, but I was thinking it might be a good idea in the future. Im not worried about the look of our ID cards, I am worried about the strength of them. But it really doesnt matter.