Community Service Ribbon Question

[Holding Pattern]

There is an individual in my squadron that does community service outside of the US 1 month out of each year (rebuilding really bad countries.) As far as I know, that person has never applied for a community service ribbon. Should that time they spend in another country doing this apply towards that ribbon? Does it apply to the full time they are there?

[Holding Pattern]

Argh, and I put this in the wrong forum somehow. Can someone move it to the right one?

[Storm Chaser]

CAPR 39-3 doesn't make a distinction. As far as I'm concerned, community service is community service regardless of the location. As long as the member can provide the required documentation, the ribbon can be awarded. Only the time worked and certified should be credited toward the ribbon.

[kwe1009]

CAPR 39-3 doesn't make a distinction. As far as I'm concerned, community service is community service regardless of the location. As long as the member can provide the required documentation, the ribbon can be awarded. Only the time worked and certified should be credited toward the ribbon.

That is how I handle this.  I have a cadet that goes on a mission trip to a foreign county each year and the hours that he worked are counted toward the ribbon.  I did have one cadet that tried to include the entire time he was gone as community service but after a brief discussion he understood that he was only supposed to count the hours he worked and not the plane ride, etc.

[Garibaldi]

CAPR 39-3 doesn't make a distinction. As far as I'm concerned, community service is community service regardless of the location. As long as the member can provide the required documentation, the ribbon can be awarded. Only the time worked and certified should be credited toward the ribbon.

That is how I handle this.  I have a cadet that goes on a mission trip to a foreign county each year and the hours that he worked are counted toward the ribbon.  I did have one cadet that tried to include the entire time he was gone as community service but after a brief discussion he understood that he was only supposed to count the hours he worked and not the plane ride, etc.

Yeah...counting time spent sitting on a plane, in the can, in bed, eating, watching TV....that counts. Riiiiight.

[Гугл переводчик]

Somethings telling me court-ordered community service would not count... but then again 39-3 is pretty vague.

[almostspaatz]

Somethings telling me court-ordered community service would not count... but then again 39-3 is pretty vague.

Is there something you need to tell us? 

[Storm Chaser]

Somethings telling me court-ordered community service would not count... but then again 39-3 is pretty vague.

While CAPR 39-3 doesn't specifically address that, I believe the intent of the ribbon is to reward volunteer community service, which court-ordered service is certainly not. As a commander, I would not approve it.

[Гугл переводчик]

Somethings telling me court-ordered community service would not count... but then again 39-3 is pretty vague.

Is there something you need to tell us? 

On the advice of my counsel, I respectfully exercise my fifth amendment right, and decline to answer that question.

And Storm, I agree, just wanted to see what others did. Thank you!

[TheSkyHornet]

This question has come up several times, but I never know the answer and usually the conversations turn into a debate---

Does prior community service count for the Community Service Ribbon's requirements, as in that person did some of their service, as verified through a letter, before joining CAP?

[Garibaldi]

This question has come up several times, but I never know the answer and usually the conversations turn into a debate---

Does prior community service count for the Community Service Ribbon's requirements, as in that person did some of their service, as verified through a letter, before joining CAP?

Gray area. I'd be inclined to say no, since it happened before (think about trying to get a lifesaving award for something you did before CAP). But, honestly, if it passes the CC's scrutiny, I'd be glad to eat my hat.

[THRAWN]

This question has come up several times, but I never know the answer and usually the conversations turn into a debate---

Does prior community service count for the Community Service Ribbon's requirements, as in that person did some of their service, as verified through a letter, before joining CAP?

I rescued two people from a burning house before I joined CAP. Should I get a SMOV?

[Garibaldi]

This question has come up several times, but I never know the answer and usually the conversations turn into a debate---

Does prior community service count for the Community Service Ribbon's requirements, as in that person did some of their service, as verified through a letter, before joining CAP?

I rescued two people from a burning house before I joined CAP. Should I get a SMOV?

Only if your name rhymes with....ummm....well, nothing rhymes with HWSNBN, honestly.

[kwe1009]

This question has come up several times, but I never know the answer and usually the conversations turn into a debate---

Does prior community service count for the Community Service Ribbon's requirements, as in that person did some of their service, as verified through a letter, before joining CAP?

Definitely not.  No organization is going to give you an award for something that you did before you joined them.  From an ethical standpoint I couldn't justify it either. 

[THRAWN]

This question has come up several times, but I never know the answer and usually the conversations turn into a debate---

Does prior community service count for the Community Service Ribbon's requirements, as in that person did some of their service, as verified through a letter, before joining CAP?

Definitely not.  No organization is going to give you an award for something that you did before you joined them.  From an ethical standpoint I couldn't justify it either.

Sadly, this question comes up more than it should. How the Hades do people think that they can justify giving an organization's award for actions that we not performed as a member of that organization?

[lordmonar]

This question has come up several times, but I never know the answer and usually the conversations turn into a debate---

Does prior community service count for the Community Service Ribbon's requirements, as in that person did some of their service, as verified through a letter, before joining CAP?

Definitely not.  No organization is going to give you an award for something that you did before you joined them.  From an ethical standpoint I couldn't justify it either.

Sadly, this question comes up more than it should. How the Hades do people think that they can justify giving an organization's award for actions that we not performed as a member of that organization?

Because the Community Service Ribbon is for actions performed completely outside of the organization that awards it.

[TheSkyHornet]

This question has come up several times, but I never know the answer and usually the conversations turn into a debate---

Does prior community service count for the Community Service Ribbon's requirements, as in that person did some of their service, as verified through a letter, before joining CAP?

Definitely not.  No organization is going to give you an award for something that you did before you joined them.  From an ethical standpoint I couldn't justify it either.

Sadly, this question comes up more than it should. How the Hades do people think that they can justify giving an organization's award for actions that we not performed as a member of that organization?

Because the Community Service Ribbon is for actions performed completely outside of the organization that awards it.

And that's the debate that comes up every time.

Most people who ask about the award don't seem to realize that it's community service entirely separate from CAP. I've had people ask if a Habitat for Humanity activity would qualify if the squadron pitched in. I would say if it's not a squadron-oriented activity, it could count, but if it's something the squadron is planning on their agenda, no, it wouldn't count. If that person came up to me and said "I worked with H4H over the summer, does that count as Community Service," yes, it does.

But now if someone did H4H before they joined CAP and provide a letter from someone saying "Joe Smith worked with us on December 5, 2012. He helped planned and organize an effort which took 10 hours," does that count for his Community Service time?

Sadly, this question comes up more than it should. How the Hades do people think that they can justify giving an organization's award for actions that we not performed as a member of that organization?

I think it's CAP's way of getting people to participate in the community beyond the scope of CAP. It ties into developing well-rounded individuals.

That being said, it does have that follow-up question of "What did this have to do with our organization, and why should you get an award for something that had no bearing on CAP?" It's a plus-minus-plus situation.

But, the regs say it's an award-worthy action. So, extracurricular community service counts toward a CAP award even thought it has no organizational ties to CAP.

[Storm Chaser]

This question has come up several times, but I never know the answer and usually the conversations turn into a debate---

Does prior community service count for the Community Service Ribbon's requirements, as in that person did some of their service, as verified through a letter, before joining CAP?

Definitely not.  No organization is going to give you an award for something that you did before you joined them.  From an ethical standpoint I couldn't justify it either.

Sadly, this question comes up more than it should. How the Hades do people think that they can justify giving an organization's award for actions that we not performed as a member of that organization?

Because the Community Service Ribbon is for actions performed completely outside of the organization that awards it.

Except that the intent of this ribbon is to encourage and recognize CAP members for their community service outside of CAP. What a member has done prior to membership shouldn't be taken into account not because it's not worthy, but because it was not done as a CAP member. Unfortunately, CAPR 39-3 is vague about the criteria, leaving it up to commanders to interpret the regulation. I think most reasonable commanders wouldn't approve this ribbon for community service done before joining CAP. Then again, others may and the regulation doesn't specifically prohibits it. We can debate this all day, but it would be better (and more definite) if NHQ just settle this discussion once and for all.

[THRAWN]

Exactly my point. Recognize the actions of member for activity outside the organization but that activity has to take place while the person is a member.

[lordmonar]

Oh I agree.....but the question was "why does this come up so often".   The answer is because the intent of the ribbon is not really clear in the reading of the CAPR. 

And when a regulation is unclear.....it opens up for different interpretations.

[TheSkyHornet]

Oh I agree.....but the question was "why does this come up so often".   The answer is because the intent of the ribbon is not really clear in the reading of the CAPR. 

And when a regulation is unclear.....it opens up for different interpretations.

Why does that sound familiar?

Topic of each week's staff meeting... 

[kwe1009]

I look at this just like I do with the Military Outstanding Volunteer Service Medal.  It is to recognize service members who are active in the community.  This award is not given out to people who just graduated BMT who did a lot of community service in high school.  It is given to members who are involved in the community while they are a member of the military.

[THRAWN]

I look at this just like I do with the Military Outstanding Volunteer Service Medal.  It is to recognize service members who are active in the community.  This award is not given out to people who just graduated BMT who did a lot of community service in high school.  It is given to members who are involved in the community while they are a member of the military.

Great analogy.

[SARDOC]

I look at this just like I do with the Military Outstanding Volunteer Service Medal.  It is to recognize service members who are active in the community.  This award is not given out to people who just graduated BMT who did a lot of community service in high school.  It is given to members who are involved in the community while they are a member of the military.

I got my MOVSM while the reserve, I volunteered for the local EMS agency to the Tune of thousands of hours.  I did it for fun not for the recognition but the OPS Chief picked right up on it and submitted me for the award.

[TheSkyHornet]

So then it sounds like the consensus is that NHQ should emphasize that the Community Service Ribbon is intended to promote the continued volunteer service in the community and not be retroactive.

[SARDOC]

So then it sounds like the consensus is that NHQ should emphasize that the Community Service Ribbon is intended to promote the continued volunteer service in the community and not be retroactive.

That does appear to be the case.

[Chappie]

So then it sounds like the consensus is that NHQ should emphasize that the Community Service Ribbon is intended to promote the continued volunteer service in the community and not be retroactive.

That does appear to be the case.

I would concur that volunteer service PRIOR to joining CAP does not meet the criteria for the Community Service Ribbon.  Caveat:  Say you were a member of a volunteer organization which provides community service prior to joining CAP, start counting the hours of volunteer service beginning the date of membership.  Then submit the application for the award.

[Garibaldi]

Resolved: That is it the concesn....consens....kinsens....opinion of the majority of CAP members that the Community Service Ribbon shall only be awarded for volunteer service outside of CAP, but only while the member is a member in good standing. Community service shall not be counted for any activity where the CAP member was not a member at the time.

Community Service shall not be considered if the member is using community service in lieu of paying fines or to avoid jail time for offenses, as this is not true community service, but choosing service to avoid fines or jail time.

Community Service may include activities such as volunteering in a local animal shelter, Habitat for Humanity, working at a homeless shelter and so on. CAP members who want to include these types of activities will present a time card signed by the leader of the activity, for the period of time the member worked. It will not include time spent travelling, eating, breaks, or sleeping, if the event is overseas or out of state, or while wearing the CAP uniform in the pursuit of a CAP mission or activity, such as recruiting events, or activities that CAP is requested to participate.

[Chappie]

Resolved: That is it the concesn....consens....kinsens....opinion of the majority of CAP members that the Community Service Ribbon shall only be awarded for volunteer service outside of CAP, but only while the member is a member in good standing. Community service shall not be counted for any activity where the CAP member was not a member at the time.

Community Service shall not be considered if the member is using community service in lieu of paying fines or to avoid jail time for offenses, as this is not true community service, but choosing service to avoid fines or jail time.

Community Service may include activities such as volunteering in a local animal shelter, Habitat for Humanity, working at a homeless shelter and so on. CAP members who want to include these types of activities will present a time card signed by the leader of the activity, for the period of time the member worked. It will not include time spent travelling, eating, breaks, or sleeping, if the event is overseas or out of state, or while wearing the CAP uniform in the pursuit of a CAP mission or activity, such as recruiting events, or activities that CAP is requested to participate.

"Wreaths Across America" does not count since it is a CAP-sanctioned activity....however, where I am contributing my community service hours is very worthwhile/fulfilling and has not yet been deemed a CAP-activity;  Honor Flight.    Gotta tell ya'...this is a noble and worthwhile organization/cause to support.

[Garibaldi]

Resolved: That is it the concesn....consens....kinsens....opinion of the majority of CAP members that the Community Service Ribbon shall only be awarded for volunteer service outside of CAP, but only while the member is a member in good standing. Community service shall not be counted for any activity where the CAP member was not a member at the time.

Community Service shall not be considered if the member is using community service in lieu of paying fines or to avoid jail time for offenses, as this is not true community service, but choosing service to avoid fines or jail time.

Community Service may include activities such as volunteering in a local animal shelter, Habitat for Humanity, working at a homeless shelter and so on. CAP members who want to include these types of activities will present a time card signed by the leader of the activity, for the period of time the member worked. It will not include time spent travelling, eating, breaks, or sleeping, if the event is overseas or out of state, or while wearing the CAP uniform in the pursuit of a CAP mission or activity, such as recruiting events, or activities that CAP is requested to participate.

"Wreaths Across America" does not count since it is a CAP-sanctioned activity....however, where I am contributing my community service hours is very worthwhile/fulfilling and has not yet been deemed a CAP-activity;  Honor Flight.    Gotta tell ya'...this is a noble and worthwhile organization/cause to support.

Sir, my post is made in jest, but it has some seriousity to it. I think the regulation should include more of what should be considered as real community service, and what isn't. Is Honor Flight similar to Angel flight, or is it something different?

[Chappie]

Resolved: That is it the concesn....consens....kinsens....opinion of the majority of CAP members that the Community Service Ribbon shall only be awarded for volunteer service outside of CAP, but only while the member is a member in good standing. Community service shall not be counted for any activity where the CAP member was not a member at the time.

Community Service shall not be considered if the member is using community service in lieu of paying fines or to avoid jail time for offenses, as this is not true community service, but choosing service to avoid fines or jail time.

Community Service may include activities such as volunteering in a local animal shelter, Habitat for Humanity, working at a homeless shelter and so on. CAP members who want to include these types of activities will present a time card signed by the leader of the activity, for the period of time the member worked. It will not include time spent travelling, eating, breaks, or sleeping, if the event is overseas or out of state, or while wearing the CAP uniform in the pursuit of a CAP mission or activity, such as recruiting events, or activities that CAP is requested to participate.

"Wreaths Across America" does not count since it is a CAP-sanctioned activity....however, where I am contributing my community service hours is very worthwhile/fulfilling and has not yet been deemed a CAP-activity;  Honor Flight.    Gotta tell ya'...this is a noble and worthwhile organization/cause to support.

Sir, my post is made in jest, but it has some seriousity to it. I think the regulation should include more of what should be considered as real community service, and what isn't. Is Honor Flight similar to Angel flight, or is it something different?

Had no problem with your comment...knew where you were coming from and just wanted to add some flavor

Here is a good introduction to Honor Flight: https://youtu.be/_VoWKh_T6aA    As the number of WWII vets diminish due to their age, Korea and Vietnam War vets are now filling the flights.  Our local hub sends 2-3  flights each year - 20 vets and 20 guardians.  Here is a link to a video I created for our last flight: https://youtu.be/9Gr-B0-vAto

[Chappie]

Resolved: That is it the concesn....consens....kinsens....opinion of the majority of CAP members that the Community Service Ribbon shall only be awarded for volunteer service outside of CAP, but only while the member is a member in good standing. Community service shall not be counted for any activity where the CAP member was not a member at the time.

Community Service shall not be considered if the member is using community service in lieu of paying fines or to avoid jail time for offenses, as this is not true community service, but choosing service to avoid fines or jail time.

Community Service may include activities such as volunteering in a local animal shelter, Habitat for Humanity, working at a homeless shelter and so on. CAP members who want to include these types of activities will present a time card signed by the leader of the activity, for the period of time the member worked. It will not include time spent travelling, eating, breaks, or sleeping, if the event is overseas or out of state, or while wearing the CAP uniform in the pursuit of a CAP mission or activity, such as recruiting events, or activities that CAP is requested to participate.

"Wreaths Across America" does not count since it is a CAP-sanctioned activity....however, where I am contributing my community service hours is very worthwhile/fulfilling and has not yet been deemed a CAP-activity;  Honor Flight.    Gotta tell ya'...this is a noble and worthwhile organization/cause to support.

Sir, my post is made in jest, but it has some seriousity to it. I think the regulation should include more of what should be considered as real community service, and what isn't. Is Honor Flight similar to Angel flight, or is it something different?

Had no problem with your comment...knew where you were coming from and just wanted to add some flavor

Here is a good introduction to Honor Flight: https://youtu.be/_VoWKh_T6aA    As the number of WWII vets diminish due to their age, Korea and Vietnam War vets are now filling the flights.  Our local hub sends 2-3  flights each year - 20 vets and 20 guardians.  Here is the link to a video I put together for our last flight: https://youtu.be/9Gr-B0-vAto

[Chappie]

Resolved: That is it the concesn....consens....kinsens....opinion of the majority of CAP members that the Community Service Ribbon shall only be awarded for volunteer service outside of CAP, but only while the member is a member in good standing. Community service shall not be counted for any activity where the CAP member was not a member at the time.

Community Service shall not be considered if the member is using community service in lieu of paying fines or to avoid jail time for offenses, as this is not true community service, but choosing service to avoid fines or jail time.

Community Service may include activities such as volunteering in a local animal shelter, Habitat for Humanity, working at a homeless shelter and so on. CAP members who want to include these types of activities will present a time card signed by the leader of the activity, for the period of time the member worked. It will not include time spent travelling, eating, breaks, or sleeping, if the event is overseas or out of state, or while wearing the CAP uniform in the pursuit of a CAP mission or activity, such as recruiting events, or activities that CAP is requested to participate.

"Wreaths Across America" does not count since it is a CAP-sanctioned activity....however, where I am contributing my community service hours is very worthwhile/fulfilling and has not yet been deemed a CAP-activity;  Honor Flight.    Gotta tell ya'...this is a noble and worthwhile organization/cause to support.

Sir, my post is made in jest, but it has some seriousity to it. I think the regulation should include more of what should be considered as real community service, and what isn't. Is Honor Flight similar to Angel flight, or is it something different?

Had no problem with your comment...knew where you were coming from and just wanted to add some flavor

Here is a good introduction to Honor Flight: https://youtu.be/_VoWKh_T6aA    As the number of WWII vets diminish due to their age, Korea and Vietnam War vets are now filling the flights.  Our local hub sends 2-3  flights each year - 20 vets and 20 guardians.  Here is the link to a video I put together for our last flight: https://youtu.be/9Gr-B0-vAto

As you can see, there are a few hours put in for community service

[Alaric]

Resolved: That is it the concesn....consens....kinsens....opinion of the majority of CAP members that the Community Service Ribbon shall only be awarded for volunteer service outside of CAP, but only while the member is a member in good standing. Community service shall not be counted for any activity where the CAP member was not a member at the time.

Community Service shall not be considered if the member is using community service in lieu of paying fines or to avoid jail time for offenses, as this is not true community service, but choosing service to avoid fines or jail time.

I would disagree, or add that any required Community Service for a religious organization or school also not be counted as those are not being chosen, but are being used to fulfill requirements.  (Many Schools now require a certain number of hours of community service, and I have noticed a rise in required community service for Bar-Mitzvah projects).  Court mandated community service should not be treated any differently than school mandated community service.

[SarDragon]

Just for the sake of discussion, why not overseas? I was stationed in Japan, and a member of an overseas cadet squadron.  While there I was involved with the local Japanese charity organization, and also with the annual open house/air show. Why shouldn't that count?

[Luis R. Ramos]

Sar, you did not read clearly.

Remember there are commas. I think the person put one extra coma. In other words, Garibaldi posted:

...time spent traveling, eating, breaks, or sleeping, if the event is overseas or out of state...

This may have been Garibaldi's intention, but I am putting words or rather comas, in his writing:

...time spent traveling, eating, breaks, or sleeping if the event is overseas or out of state...

Said otherwise, overseas counts if the time reported is not spent traveling or waiting for travel. That is, you go to Japan to teach people how to build a house. Only contact hours teaching those people on how to build a house. Time spent traveling to the airport, flight time, and time spent waiting for pickup there will not.

[Garibaldi]

Sar, you did not read clearly.

Remember there are commas. I think the person put one extra coma. In other words, Garibaldi posted:

...time spent traveling, eating, breaks, or sleeping, if the event is overseas or out of state...

This may have been Garibaldi's intention, but I am putting words or rather comas, in his writing:

...time spent traveling, eating, breaks, or sleeping if the event is overseas or out of state...

Said otherwise, overseas counts if the time reported is not spent traveling or waiting for travel. That is, you go to Japan to teach people how to build a house. Only contact hours teaching those people on how to build a house. Time spent traveling to the airport, flight time, and time spent waiting for pickup there will not.

Egg zachary. Somewhere towards the beginning of the thread we said only contact time and not the whole, say, 144 hours of the week, which would presumably include the aforementioned non-activity activities. Much as I harp on poor grammar, a misplaced comma can mean a world of difference. Like, a panda eats shoots and leaves. Or a panda eats, shoots, and leaves. Totally different meanings but the same words.

[Luis R. Ramos]

Garibaldi-

So you actually meant

...time spent traveling, eating, breaks, or sleeping, if the event is overseas or out of state...

Now I join Sar in asking why don't you want to include overseas events?

[Garibaldi]

Garibaldi-

So you actually meant

...time spent traveling, eating, breaks, or sleeping, if the event is overseas or out of state...

Now I join Sar in asking why don't you want to include overseas events?

You misinterpret my statement. You would not include time spent eating, sleeping, watching Netflix, travelling to and fro(if the activity is out of state or country), napping, using the toilet etc. In other words, time not spent on task.

[Luis R. Ramos]

Sorry but your last statement was a little confusing to me.

In other words, you did put a comma out of place?

That is what I originally thought. It is what I think I have come to think of you.

A sane head on your shoulder.

[Chappie]

Resolved: That is it the concesn....consens....kinsens....opinion of the majority of CAP members that the Community Service Ribbon shall only be awarded for volunteer service outside of CAP, but only while the member is a member in good standing. Community service shall not be counted for any activity where the CAP member was not a member at the time.

Community Service shall not be considered if the member is using community service in lieu of paying fines or to avoid jail time for offenses, as this is not true community service, but choosing service to avoid fines or jail time.

I would disagree, or add that any required Community Service for a religious organization or school also not be counted as those are not being chosen, but are being used to fulfill requirements.   (Many Schools now require a certain number of hours of community service, and I have noticed a rise in required community service for Bar-Mitzvah projects).  Court mandated community service should not be treated any differently than school mandated community service.

I would concur with the above statement by Alaric....that's like double dipping.   Any required Community Service for one organization should not be credited for the CAP CSR since one is meeting a mandated standard.  Community Service fits within the core value of "VOLUNTEER service".   If I am mandated to perform community service for an organization to meet their requirement (church, school, scouts, etc), then it is not necessarily "volunteer".   Volunteer service, IMHO, is that which above and beyond any mandated requirement that needs to be fulfilled.

[almostspaatz]

Resolved: That is it the concesn....consens....kinsens....opinion of the majority of CAP members that the Community Service Ribbon shall only be awarded for volunteer service outside of CAP, but only while the member is a member in good standing. Community service shall not be counted for any activity where the CAP member was not a member at the time.

Community Service shall not be considered if the member is using community service in lieu of paying fines or to avoid jail time for offenses, as this is not true community service, but choosing service to avoid fines or jail time.

I would disagree, or add that any required Community Service for a religious organization or school also not be counted as those are not being chosen, but are being used to fulfill requirements.   (Many Schools now require a certain number of hours of community service, and I have noticed a rise in required community service for Bar-Mitzvah projects).  Court mandated community service should not be treated any differently than school mandated community service.

I would concur with the above statement by Alaric....that's like double dipping.   Any required Community Service for one organization should not be credited for the CAP CSR since one is meeting a mandated standard.  Community Service fits within the core value of "VOLUNTEER service".   If I am mandated to perform community service for an organization to meet their requirement (church, school, scouts, etc), then it is not necessarily "volunteer".   Volunteer service, IMHO, is that which above and beyond any mandated requirement that needs to be fulfilled.

Just curious...so what about the folks who do it just for the ribbon...aren't they filling requirements then? 

In theory upholding core values should prevent any of the above from happening...IMHO (Please pardon my slightly sarcastic but semi-true statements  )

[SarDragon]

Sure, there are folks who do it just for the bling, but if the activity director is signing it of as successful accomplishment of the mission objective, whatever that happens to be, then it's still a win for everyone. The motive is a little suspect, but it
s still a good deed.

[lordmonar]

I personally don't have a problem with double dipping.  If you do the hours you do the hours. I don't really care that much about motivations. 

Unless it was court ordered.  That is punishment and should not be rewarded.   

[Ned]

Unless it was court ordered.  That is punishment and should not be rewarded.

Hmmm.  Maybe the court that ordered the community service should get the credit.  That would work for me! 

[lordmonar]

How many ribbons would you have? 

[Alaric]

I personally don't have a problem with double dipping.  If you do the hours you do the hours. I don't really care that much about motivations. 

Unless it was court ordered.  That is punishment and should not be rewarded.

To an uninterested high school student that is ordered to do community service, it is also punishment

[TheSkyHornet]

Sar, you did not read clearly.

Remember there are commas. I think the person put one extra coma. In other words, Garibaldi posted:

...time spent traveling, eating, breaks, or sleeping, if the event is overseas or out of state...

This may have been Garibaldi's intention, but I am putting words or rather comas, in his writing:

...time spent traveling, eating, breaks, or sleeping if the event is overseas or out of state...

Said otherwise, overseas counts if the time reported is not spent traveling or waiting for travel. That is, you go to Japan to teach people how to build a house. Only contact hours teaching those people on how to build a house. Time spent traveling to the airport, flight time, and time spent waiting for pickup there will not.

Egg zachary. Somewhere towards the beginning of the thread we said only contact time and not the whole, say, 144 hours of the week, which would presumably include the aforementioned non-activity activities. Much as I harp on poor grammar, a misplaced comma can mean a world of difference. Like, a panda eats shoots and leaves. Or a panda eats, shoots, and leaves. Totally different meanings but the same words.

Wow. It went that far. 

[Alaric]

Sar, you did not read clearly.

Remember there are commas. I think the person put one extra coma. In other words, Garibaldi posted:

...time spent traveling, eating, breaks, or sleeping, if the event is overseas or out of state...

This may have been Garibaldi's intention, but I am putting words or rather comas, in his writing:

...time spent traveling, eating, breaks, or sleeping if the event is overseas or out of state...

Said otherwise, overseas counts if the time reported is not spent traveling or waiting for travel. That is, you go to Japan to teach people how to build a house. Only contact hours teaching those people on how to build a house. Time spent traveling to the airport, flight time, and time spent waiting for pickup there will not.

Egg zachary. Somewhere towards the beginning of the thread we said only contact time and not the whole, say, 144 hours of the week, which would presumably include the aforementioned non-activity activities. Much as I harp on poor grammar, a misplaced comma can mean a world of difference. Like, a panda eats shoots and leaves. Or a panda eats, shoots, and leaves. Totally different meanings but the same words.

Wow. It went that far. 

Well that, and the fact no one caught the fact that there are 168 hours in a week

[Garibaldi]

Sar, you did not read clearly.

Remember there are commas. I think the person put one extra coma. In other words, Garibaldi posted:

...time spent traveling, eating, breaks, or sleeping, if the event is overseas or out of state...

This may have been Garibaldi's intention, but I am putting words or rather comas, in his writing:

...time spent traveling, eating, breaks, or sleeping if the event is overseas or out of state...

Said otherwise, overseas counts if the time reported is not spent traveling or waiting for travel. That is, you go to Japan to teach people how to build a house. Only contact hours teaching those people on how to build a house. Time spent traveling to the airport, flight time, and time spent waiting for pickup there will not.

Egg zachary. Somewhere towards the beginning of the thread we said only contact time and not the whole, say, 144 hours of the week, which would presumably include the aforementioned non-activity activities. Much as I harp on poor grammar, a misplaced comma can mean a world of difference. Like, a panda eats shoots and leaves. Or a panda eats, shoots, and leaves. Totally different meanings but the same words.

Wow. It went that far. 

Well that, and the fact no one caught the fact that there are 168 hours in a week

I did the math 4 times to arrive at that number. Of course, I didn't use a calculator, just my brain.

[TheSkyHornet]

Sar, you did not read clearly.

Remember there are commas. I think the person put one extra coma. In other words, Garibaldi posted:

...time spent traveling, eating, breaks, or sleeping, if the event is overseas or out of state...

This may have been Garibaldi's intention, but I am putting words or rather comas, in his writing:

...time spent traveling, eating, breaks, or sleeping if the event is overseas or out of state...

Said otherwise, overseas counts if the time reported is not spent traveling or waiting for travel. That is, you go to Japan to teach people how to build a house. Only contact hours teaching those people on how to build a house. Time spent traveling to the airport, flight time, and time spent waiting for pickup there will not.

Egg zachary. Somewhere towards the beginning of the thread we said only contact time and not the whole, say, 144 hours of the week, which would presumably include the aforementioned non-activity activities. Much as I harp on poor grammar, a misplaced comma can mean a world of difference. Like, a panda eats shoots and leaves. Or a panda eats, shoots, and leaves. Totally different meanings but the same words.

Wow. It went that far. 

Well that, and the fact no one caught the fact that there are 168 hours in a week

I did the math 4 times to arrive at that number. Of course, I didn't use a calculator, just my brain.

Everything I've ever been taught in public school has been a lie! 

[SarDragon]

The cake is a lie.

And with that -

[Luis R. Ramos]

Awwww, why not extend this thread a little, more Dad?



There! A thread that starts with a uniform issue and changes to a grammar issue! Usually it is the opposite...

[TheSkyHornet]

Oh I agree.....but the question was "why does this come up so often".   The answer is because the intent of the ribbon is not really clear in the reading of the CAPR. 

And when a regulation is unclear.....it opens up for different interpretations.

You can't write intentions. You can only write policy. Rules can only be enforced to the extent they are written.