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CubeSats in CAP?

Started by atlantis737, September 08, 2014, 03:37:24 AM

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atlantis737

CubeSats (Cube Satellites) are small 10x10x10 satellites that can weigh no more than 1.66 kg.  For educational purposes, NASA will charge a nominal fee for the launch, but refund it if your satellite is ready to go on time and is not a delaying factor in the launch.  They are most often used for universities doing research in space, but they can be built by anyone for any purpose (except as a weapon, obviously).

Could a constellation of CubeSats some day find a place in CAP?

Discuss.

Майор Хаткевич

100k is hardly nominal for CAP for a very limited use device.

Eclipse

Quote from: atlantis737 on September 08, 2014, 03:37:24 AM
Could a constellation of CubeSats some day find a place in CAP?

Yes...

...in the closet next to the Siemac Pro-Finds & ARCHER ground stations.

"That Others May Zoom"

atlantis737

Quote from: usafaux2004 on September 08, 2014, 04:28:29 AM
100k is hardly nominal for CAP for a very limited use device.

I'm not sure where you're getting the 100k figure.  At any rate, it's refunded as soon as your satellite is ready for launch - sort of like a security deposit.

I suppose it's wishful thinking, but at a minimum it would be quite the AE project.

http://www.nasa.gov/directorates/heo/home/CubeSats_initiative.html#.VA01E2M6-WM

lordmonar

What do you propose the cube sat to do?

All those universities build the satellites as an exercise for the students.....but they all have some sort of experiment on board.
PATRICK M. HARRIS, SMSgt, CAP

Eclipse


"That Others May Zoom"

atlantis737


JeffDG

Quote from: usafaux2004 on September 08, 2014, 04:28:29 AM
100k is hardly nominal for CAP for a very limited use device.

As a refundable deposit, however, it's something that could be done.  I wonder if we could build a sat to pick up 121.5s again!

Майор Хаткевич

Quote from: JeffDG on September 08, 2014, 01:02:26 PM
Quote from: usafaux2004 on September 08, 2014, 04:28:29 AM
100k is hardly nominal for CAP for a very limited use device.

As a refundable deposit, however, it's something that could be done.  I wonder if we could build a sat to pick up 121.5s again!


In 2004, with their relatively small size, 1U CubeSats could each be made and launched to LEO for an estimated $65,000–$80,000. After delays from low-cost launchers such as Interorbital Systems,[6] more recent launch prices have been $100,000[7]-$125,000,[8] plus approximately $10,000 to construct the CubeSat.[9] This price tag, far lower than most satellite launches, has made CubeSat a viable option for schools and universities across the world. Because of this, a large number of universities and some companies and government organizations around the world are developing CubeSats — between 40 and 50 universities in 2004, Cal Poly reported.


Why would unis pay if they can do it for free?

Eclipse

Quote from: JeffDG on September 08, 2014, 01:02:26 PM
Quote from: usafaux2004 on September 08, 2014, 04:28:29 AM
100k is hardly nominal for CAP for a very limited use device.

As a refundable deposit, however, it's something that could be done. 

Sure!  If you'll just enter your credit card number, a $100k "reservation" will be placed on your card.
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"That Others May Zoom"

LSThiker

Quote from: Eclipse on September 08, 2014, 05:05:47 PM
Sure!  If you'll just enter your credit card number, a $100k "reservation" will be placed on your card.

Today, it may not be a viable option, but tomorrow it could be.  In the future, it may be much lower in costs and therefore more obtainable to CAP.  I am reminded of the past in this.  I continuously heard that sequencing a genome is too costly to be of any real value except to the ultra large labs and corporations.  Today, due to technological increases........oh, sorry, I need to go pick up my results for two genomes that I submitted last week to be sequenced.  I will finish my thought when I return. 


LSThiker

Quote from: atlantis737 on September 08, 2014, 03:37:24 AM
Could a constellation of CubeSats some day find a place in CAP?

Discuss.

Find a person in Fort McHenry Composite Squadron.  They already have:

http://www.defensemedianetwork.com/stories/the-civil-air-patrol-fosters-stem-with-cubesat-balloon-launch/

Eclipse

#12
Quote from: LSThiker on September 08, 2014, 06:43:43 PM
Quote from: Eclipse on September 08, 2014, 05:05:47 PM
Sure!  If you'll just enter your credit card number, a $100k "reservation" will be placed on your card.

Today, it may not be a viable option, but tomorrow it could be.  In the future, it may be much lower in costs and therefore more obtainable to CAP.  I am reminded of the past in this.  I continuously heard that sequencing a genome is too costly to be of any real value except to the ultra large labs and corporations.  Today, due to technological increases........oh, sorry, I need to go pick up my results for two genomes that I submitted last week to be sequenced.  I will finish my thought when I return. 

So...

You've got a lot of random, unidentified DNA just scattered around your house?

Lots of things are cheaper these days, especially anything related to processor cycles, which DNA decidedly is, and
processor cycles these days are essentially free.

You used to be able to go to the movies with a nickel, buy popcorn, candy, and a commemorative Iron(age) Man buggy whip
and still have 2 cents change for the street car.

Space launches have expensive hard-costs, not likely to be mitigated by renting time in a server farm at Fermi for a couple hours.

This is an interesting idea, and would be a good AEX project even at the academic level, but to insinuate that a deposit 4x's
the average wing's annual budget is somehow going to happen, absent some large corporate donation, is being somewhat "1/2-full"
about the idea.

"That Others May Zoom"

LSThiker

#13
Quote from: Eclipse on September 08, 2014, 07:07:06 PM
Quote from: LSThiker on September 08, 2014, 06:43:43 PM
Quote from: Eclipse on September 08, 2014, 05:05:47 PM
Sure!  If you'll just enter your credit card number, a $100k "reservation" will be placed on your card.

Today, it may not be a viable option, but tomorrow it could be.  In the future, it may be much lower in costs and therefore more obtainable to CAP.  I am reminded of the past in this.  I continuously heard that sequencing a genome is too costly to be of any real value except to the ultra large labs and corporations.  Today, due to technological increases........oh, sorry, I need to go pick up my results for two genomes that I submitted last week to be sequenced.  I will finish my thought when I return. 

So...

You've got a lot of random, unidentified DNA just scattered around your house?

Well yes, but then again so does every house.  Just think about how much DNA is left when a person enters your house.

QuoteThis is an interesting idea, and would be a good AEX project even at the academic level, but to insinuate that a deposit 4x's
the average wing's annual budget is somehow going to happen, absent some large corporate donation, is being somewhat "1/2-full"
about the idea.

Who said absent of a large corporate donation?

Eclipse

Quote from: LSThiker on September 08, 2014, 07:18:31 PM
QuoteThis is an interesting idea, and would be a good AEX project even at the academic level, but to insinuate that a deposit 4x's
the average wing's annual budget is somehow going to happen, absent some large corporate donation, is being somewhat "1/2-full"
about the idea.

Who said absent of a large corporate donation?

Well good on 'ye then.   FYI - NHQ has to be involved for transactions on that scale (if it has CAP's name on it),
so good luck with that...


"That Others May Zoom"

Eclipse

Quote from: LSThiker on September 08, 2014, 07:03:41 PM
Quote from: atlantis737 on September 08, 2014, 03:37:24 AM
Could a constellation of CubeSats some day find a place in CAP?

Discuss.

Find a person in Fort McHenry Composite Squadron.  They already have:

http://www.defensemedianetwork.com/stories/the-civil-air-patrol-fosters-stem-with-cubesat-balloon-launch/

This isn't the same thing - this is a Near-Space balloon, something 10 year olds do with grandma on credit card commercials.
Orders of magnitude difference in launch expense, not to mention expertise, and you're not doing a real "satellite" from your local forest preserve.

"That Others May Zoom"

LSThiker

#16
Quote from: Eclipse on September 08, 2014, 07:40:14 PM
This isn't the same thing - this is a Near-Space balloon, something 10 year olds do with grandma on credit card commercials.
Orders of magnitude difference in launch expense, not to mention expertise, and you're not doing a real "satellite" from your local forest preserve.

Yes of course it is not the same thing.  However, it does serve to illustrate that CAP could use CubeSat (which is just the small sat cargo), which is what the author is asking about.

QuoteCubeSats are a class of research spacecraft called nanosatellites. The cube-shaped satellites are approximately four inches long, have a volume of about one quart and weigh about 3 pounds.

Eclipse

OK, yes, kinda.

The OP was talking about orbital launch, not near space balloons.

For CAP units, NSB are better off using the typical styrofoam cooler and a smartphone vs. an expensive satellite.

"That Others May Zoom"

LSThiker

Quote from: Eclipse on September 08, 2014, 07:55:36 PM
OK, yes, kinda.

The OP was talking about orbital launch, not near space balloons.

Well, his question was whether CubeSat could some day find a place in CAP, without the mention of how it was launched. He did reference the rocket launch method. Regardless, a minor point in how Fort McHenry did it, especially for a proof of principle concept.

Quote
For CAP units, NSB are better off using the typical styrofoam cooler and a smartphone vs. an expensive satellite.

Perhaps, but for a unit that wants to use a CubeSat or a TubeSat (which is predicted to be at $8000 including launch in 2015), that is for them to decide.

Eclipse

Quote from: LSThiker on September 08, 2014, 08:35:44 PM
Perhaps, but for a unit that wants to use a CubeSat or a TubeSat (which is predicted to be at $8000 including launch in 2015), that is for them to decide.

$8k next year?   "Predicted" does not equal "doing it".  They were supposed to start launches @ $8k in 2011,
as of Mar, nothings been launched and they are still in testing.

$8k is more doable then $100K, but then again Milk is cheap, unless you don't have $3.

If a Unit CC of mine tried to spend $8k for a toilet paper tube that is going to go "ping" once a day for 3 weeks and
then drop ashes on some poor islander, I wouldn't let them.  A couple hundred bucks on an NSB cooler for some
fun photos is one thing, but multipliers of annual budgets could be considered FWA, "cool" or not.  That's an encampment
budget in many wings.

Something of that cost should be done as a Wing project at a minimum, and even then it's questionable on the ROI.

"That Others May Zoom"