Cloth Squadron Command Badge

[Private Investigator]

I've just opted to not wear it.  I Know the reg says you're supposed to...but I'm a Minimalist.

I pass on it too. 

[lordmonar]

    I think it's time for all members to unite and talk to NHQ about this issue and how Vanguard keep making things worse. Outrages prices and poor quality.
    When I was a cadet 19 years ago, I usually went to a local military surplus, whom had a local supplier who provided all CAP items from badges, ranks and ribbons. It was cheaper and great quality. I remember getting squadron patches through different vendors.

   Give us the ability to shop around. No to the Monopoly!

Where else could you go for CAP specific items?   

[rustyjeeper]

I just received an order from Vanguard. It was complete and delivered quickly. But, I pulled out the cloth squadron command badge. It is horrible. A blind monkey could have embroidered it with his feet better! What gives with the shoddy quality control?

even BLIND MONKEYS gotta work.
kudo's to vanguard for employing them!
:clap: :clap:

[NorCal21]

Someone mentioned it earlier... there's no specifications. Other than maybe some basic considerations there's not a very detailed uniform manual with specific dimensions and data for a company to accurately create sew-ons. I'm not trying to let VG off the hook, but at the same time they don't have much to work with.

[a2capt]

Specifications .. Pah!

If you -look- at some of that stuff.. it just looks -awful- from the get go. Wouldn't you think someone would say "hey, this looks like someone digitized pigeon bombs.."

[Garibaldi]

Someone mentioned it earlier... there's no specifications. Other than maybe some basic considerations there's not a very detailed uniform manual with specific dimensions and data for a company to accurately create sew-ons. I'm not trying to let VG off the hook, but at the same time they don't have much to work with.

No specifications...hmmm...well, there are the HUNDREDS of examples people wear, plus the myriad PROPER images in CAPM 39-1, plus all the images floating around on the internets, so...

[arajca]

Someone mentioned it earlier... there's no specifications. Other than maybe some basic considerations there's not a very detailed uniform manual with specific dimensions and data for a company to accurately create sew-ons. I'm not trying to let VG off the hook, but at the same time they don't have much to work with.

No specifications...hmmm...well, there are the HUNDREDS of examples people wear, plus the myriad PROPER images in CAPM 39-1, plus all the images floating around on the internets, so...

A picture is not specification. A specification would describe the item in detail, including size, shape, color (in industry standard colors), weight, stitch count (embroidered items), etc, so that anyone could make it without having to interpret a picture and any of the items made to specification would identical without regard to manufacturer or batch. This is something CAP has not provided to Vanguard. I do not know why they haven't.

[Garibaldi]

Someone mentioned it earlier... there's no specifications. Other than maybe some basic considerations there's not a very detailed uniform manual with specific dimensions and data for a company to accurately create sew-ons. I'm not trying to let VG off the hook, but at the same time they don't have much to work with.

No specifications...hmmm...well, there are the HUNDREDS of examples people wear, plus the myriad PROPER images in CAPM 39-1, plus all the images floating around on the internets, so...

A picture is not specification. A specification would describe the item in detail, including size, shape, color (in industry standard colors), weight, stitch count (embroidered items), etc, so that anyone could make it without having to interpret a picture and any of the items made to specification would identical without regard to manufacturer or batch. This is something CAP has not provided to Vanguard. I do not know why they haven't.

I still stand by my statement. Based on the pictures alone, one could extrapolate the information necessary to make a quality product. A simple phone call or e-mail would take care of the rest. Based on the number of negative responses to their quality, by returns, complaints and word of mouth, one would think they could take a proactive step and say "hey, maybe we need to get the information straight from the source. Someone call/e-mail CAP!"

[arajca]

Someone mentioned it earlier... there's no specifications. Other than maybe some basic considerations there's not a very detailed uniform manual with specific dimensions and data for a company to accurately create sew-ons. I'm not trying to let VG off the hook, but at the same time they don't have much to work with.

No specifications...hmmm...well, there are the HUNDREDS of examples people wear, plus the myriad PROPER images in CAPM 39-1, plus all the images floating around on the internets, so...

A picture is not specification. A specification would describe the item in detail, including size, shape, color (in industry standard colors), weight, stitch count (embroidered items), etc, so that anyone could make it without having to interpret a picture and any of the items made to specification would identical without regard to manufacturer or batch. This is something CAP has not provided to Vanguard. I do not know why they haven't.

I still stand by my statement. Based on the pictures alone, one could extrapolate the information necessary to make a quality product. A simple phone call or e-mail would take care of the rest. Based on the number of negative responses to their quality, by returns, complaints and word of mouth, one would think they could take a proactive step and say "hey, maybe we need to get the information straight from the source. Someone call/e-mail CAP!"

They may have, but does CAP have specifications for the stuff? Again, pictures are NOT specifications. VG may have been trying to get by without specifications using your methods, but with very inconsistent results as the members have repeated complained about.

Also, not all badges designs convert to embroidery well. Frequently due to the amount of detail relative to the size.

[Garibaldi]

Someone mentioned it earlier... there's no specifications. Other than maybe some basic considerations there's not a very detailed uniform manual with specific dimensions and data for a company to accurately create sew-ons. I'm not trying to let VG off the hook, but at the same time they don't have much to work with.

No specifications...hmmm...well, there are the HUNDREDS of examples people wear, plus the myriad PROPER images in CAPM 39-1, plus all the images floating around on the internets, so...

A picture is not specification. A specification would describe the item in detail, including size, shape, color (in industry standard colors), weight, stitch count (embroidered items), etc, so that anyone could make it without having to interpret a picture and any of the items made to specification would identical without regard to manufacturer or batch. This is something CAP has not provided to Vanguard. I do not know why they haven't.

I still stand by my statement. Based on the pictures alone, one could extrapolate the information necessary to make a quality product. A simple phone call or e-mail would take care of the rest. Based on the number of negative responses to their quality, by returns, complaints and word of mouth, one would think they could take a proactive step and say "hey, maybe we need to get the information straight from the source. Someone call/e-mail CAP!"

They may have, but does CAP have specifications for the stuff? Again, pictures are NOT specifications. VG may have been trying to get by without specifications using your methods, but with very inconsistent results as the members have repeated complained about.

Also, not all badges designs convert to embroidery well. Frequently due to the amount of detail relative to the size.

Based on what I've seen regarding quality of name tapes, CAP tapes, GT badges...they may be employing a blind embroiderer. The specifications, as I said, are readily available, in photo and drawings. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to look at one, embroider one, then say "this don't match. Maybe I should adjust it."

The failure lies on both sides. If CAP did not furnish proper models and sizes, then it was incumbent on VG to make the next logical move and find out.

[SarDragon]

These are not hand embroidered. They are done on a computer controlled machine, which needs a digitized pattern. Creating this  pattern is not a trivial task, and if done sans due diligence, leads to the crappy product were are currently receiving.

[Garibaldi]

These are not hand embroidered. They are done on a computer controlled machine, which needs a digitized pattern. Creating this  pattern is not a trivial task, and if done sans due diligence, leads to the crappy product were are currently receiving.

My point being, if CAP did NOT furnish the template or specifications, then it was VG who is responsible for pursuing the matter.

If it's anything like using a program similar to the ones used for making decals, all they need to do is scan in the template and use that.

[Eclipse]

I've just opted to not wear it.  I Know the reg says you're supposed to...but I'm a Minimalist.

I pass on it too. 

Are you both wearing blues or whites?

[SARDOC]

I've just opted to not wear it.  I Know the reg says you're supposed to...but I'm a Minimalist.

I pass on it too. 

Are you both wearing blues or whites?

Corporates only for me...The reg says it's optional.  I initially read the new reg as it was required for all.  But it's not.

[arajca]

These are not hand embroidered. They are done on a computer controlled machine, which needs a digitized pattern. Creating this  pattern is not a trivial task, and if done sans due diligence, leads to the crappy product were are currently receiving.

My point being, if CAP did NOT furnish the template or specifications, then it was VG who is responsible for pursuing the matter.

If it's anything like using a program similar to the ones used for making decals, all they need to do is scan in the template and use that.

And if and when CAP declines to provide said specs, Vanguard takes its best guess, which is how we end up with what we got. And the fault is STILL CAP's.

I tried my hand at digitizing. It's not like decal creation. After you get the outline put in (scanned, drawn, imported, whatever) the digitizer then has to determine what stitch pattern, count, angle, etc for each distinct part of the design. Also, the material the design is being embroidered on plays a role as to the stitch count. Then, the design needs to be test run, ideally on the same type of machine the embroiderer will be using, and checked against the spec, if one exists. Rinse, lather, repeat until the design meets spec.

Keep in mind, the person who 'knows' what the end result should look like may 'see' the proper end result, even if no one else does. Kind of like an author proof-reading their own work.

[Garp]

Corporates only for me...The reg says it's optional.  I initially read the new reg as it was required for all.  But it's not.
[/quote]

virtually everything is optional on Corporates....basically nametag and grade are all that's mandatory

[PHall]

These are not hand embroidered. They are done on a computer controlled machine, which needs a digitized pattern. Creating this  pattern is not a trivial task, and if done sans due diligence, leads to the crappy product were are currently receiving.

My point being, if CAP did NOT furnish the template or specifications, then it was VG who is responsible for pursuing the matter.

If it's anything like using a program similar to the ones used for making decals, all they need to do is scan in the template and use that.

And if and when CAP declines to provide said specs, Vanguard takes its best guess, which is how we end up with what we got. And the fault is STILL CAP's.

I tried my hand at digitizing. It's not like decal creation. After you get the outline put in (scanned, drawn, imported, whatever) the digitizer then has to determine what stitch pattern, count, angle, etc for each distinct part of the design. Also, the material the design is being embroidered on plays a role as to the stitch count. Then, the design needs to be test run, ideally on the same type of machine the embroiderer will be using, and checked against the spec, if one exists. Rinse, lather, repeat until the design meets spec.

Keep in mind, the person who 'knows' what the end result should look like may 'see' the proper end result, even if no one else does. Kind of like an author proof-reading their own work.

And yet places like The Tiger Shop outside of Kadena AB, Japan have no trouble at all producing quality work from simple drawings.
Interesting...

[Garibaldi]

These are not hand embroidered. They are done on a computer controlled machine, which needs a digitized pattern. Creating this  pattern is not a trivial task, and if done sans due diligence, leads to the crappy product were are currently receiving.

My point being, if CAP did NOT furnish the template or specifications, then it was VG who is responsible for pursuing the matter.

If it's anything like using a program similar to the ones used for making decals, all they need to do is scan in the template and use that.

And if and when CAP declines to provide said specs, Vanguard takes its best guess, which is how we end up with what we got. And the fault is STILL CAP's.

By that same logic, those who are ignorant of the law, the law favors, right? If I am ignorant of one of the hundreds of thousands of lines in the tax code and I deduct something that I shouldn't have, who does the judicial system favor? Me? No. They side with the government because the LAW IS THERE FOR ANYONE TO READ. By the same token, if VG doesn't get the material/pattern/template they need, CAP can claim ignorance, and VG gets the blame. BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T ASK.

Laywered.

[arajca]

These are not hand embroidered. They are done on a computer controlled machine, which needs a digitized pattern. Creating this  pattern is not a trivial task, and if done sans due diligence, leads to the crappy product were are currently receiving.

My point being, if CAP did NOT furnish the template or specifications, then it was VG who is responsible for pursuing the matter.

If it's anything like using a program similar to the ones used for making decals, all they need to do is scan in the template and use that.

And if and when CAP declines to provide said specs, Vanguard takes its best guess, which is how we end up with what we got. And the fault is STILL CAP's.

By that same logic, those who are ignorant of the law, the law favors, right? If I am ignorant of one of the hundreds of thousands of lines in the tax code and I deduct something that I shouldn't have, who does the judicial system favor? Me? No. They side with the government because the LAW IS THERE FOR ANYONE TO READ. By the same token, if VG doesn't get the material/pattern/template they need, CAP can claim ignorance, and VG gets the blame. BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T ASK.

Laywered.

However, if VG did ask and CAP declines to provide the specs, is VG to blame for the crappy product?

[Garibaldi]

These are not hand embroidered. They are done on a computer controlled machine, which needs a digitized pattern. Creating this  pattern is not a trivial task, and if done sans due diligence, leads to the crappy product were are currently receiving.

My point being, if CAP did NOT furnish the template or specifications, then it was VG who is responsible for pursuing the matter.

If it's anything like using a program similar to the ones used for making decals, all they need to do is scan in the template and use that.

And if and when CAP declines to provide said specs, Vanguard takes its best guess, which is how we end up with what we got. And the fault is STILL CAP's.

By that same logic, those who are ignorant of the law, the law favors, right? If I am ignorant of one of the hundreds of thousands of lines in the tax code and I deduct something that I shouldn't have, who does the judicial system favor? Me? No. They side with the government because the LAW IS THERE FOR ANYONE TO READ. By the same token, if VG doesn't get the material/pattern/template they need, CAP can claim ignorance, and VG gets the blame. BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T ASK.

Laywered.

However, if VG did ask and CAP declines to provide the specs, is VG to blame for the crappy product?

Yes, because they can decline to provide a "Crappy product". Free market and all.