Saluting and non-saluting

[lordmonar]

There are currently two members wearing stripes from another service who are posted as CC, down from about
10 the last time I looked about 6 months ago.

This is the second time you have said this......what do you mean "another service's stripes"?

[The14th]

There are currently two members wearing stripes from another service who are posted as CC, down from about
10 the last time I looked about 6 months ago.

This is the second time you have said this......what do you mean "another service's stripes"?

I believe maybe he means because we elect to keep our NCO rank, they aren't so much CAP grade as they are prior military grade.

[Grumpy]

There are currently two members wearing stripes from another service who are posted as CC, down from about
10 the last time I looked about 6 months ago.

This is the second time you have said this......what do you mean "another service's stripes"?

I believe maybe he means because we elect to keep our NCO rank, they aren't so much CAP grade as they are prior military grade.

Hmmm... Maybe they're wearing British Chevrons on their BDU's/Class A's instead of USAF insignia.   

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

I have known at least one squadron commanded by an SMWOG, who, the last time I saw her, was a Major.  She worked bloody hard to get that unit up and running.

It would certainly look confusing to the general public and military to have an NCO giving direction to "commissioned" officers, but, there is a lot about CAP that is confusing.

Hmmm... Maybe they're wearing British Chevrons on their BDU's/Class A's instead of USAF insignia.   

Have to admit they look pretty cool...

[Private Investigator]

Have to admit they look pretty cool...

When I was a policeman, one of the officers got promoted to sergeant had his stripes put on British fashion for his promotion ceremony. I told him he had to fix that and he could not understand why, even after looking at the on duty sergeants. Yes you got three stripes, but they are upside down. Finally he understood "UPSIDE DOWN". Not exactly, "sheepdog" mentality      

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

^^This picture is actually of a pre-1968 RCAF Flight Sergeant's insignia, which is the general pattern throughout the Commonwealth.

However, it does look like a police Staff Sergeant, although the Aussies have an interesting rank title: "Incremental Sergeant," in the New South Wales Police Force.

[Panache]

Everything I know about London police ranks I learned from Hot Fuzz.

[Garibaldi]

Everything I know about London police ranks I learned from Hot Fuzz.

I don't know nothin' bout no skellingtons! You're not Judge Judy and executioner!

[NorCal21]

I have never been able to understand this dichotomy.  We are civilians, not subject to the UCMJ, and yet we are required to salute military officers, who (as with all military forces) are subject to UCMJ regs on saluting.  Supposedly we can get in trouble if we don't, but how, since we are not subject to the UCMJ?  Do we get a 2B for an SMWOG failing to salute a second lieutenant?

Well military personnel are required to salute based on the UCMJ. CAP members are required to salute military officers as an organizational rule for members because of our respect for the "parent" organization and history of CAP.

Not really a dichotomy. Look at the argument in reverse. CAP members don't have to salute each other (with the exception of cadets) because we aren't military, and military officers don't have to salute us because we aren't military.

[Luis R. Ramos]

NorCal-

I am only assuming by that answer that you are a cadet with little experience in the program.

From CAPP 151, Respect on Display.
THE SALUTE
Key Principle

When outdoors and in uniform, cadets salute military officers, CAP senior members, and cadet officers higher in rank than themselves. Senior members salute military officers and other CAP officers higher in rank than themselves.

If senior members would not be required to salute other senior members, cadets will not learn.

As simple as that.

Are you a cadet, or a senior member?

[Luis R. Ramos]

From Cyborg:

...since we are not subject to the UCMJ?  Do we get a 2B for an SMWOG failing to salute a second lieutenant?

Because our rules, regulations, and/or traditions as stated on CAPP 151 says we salute military officers and senior members higher in rank.

[PHall]

NorCal-

I am only assuming by that answer that you are a cadet with little experience in the program.

From CAPP 151, Respect on Display.
THE SALUTE
Key Principle

When outdoors and in uniform, cadets salute military officers, CAP senior members, and cadet officers higher in rank than themselves. Senior members salute military officers and other CAP officers higher in rank than themselves.

If senior members would not be required to salute other senior members, cadets will not learn.

As simple as that.

Are you a cadet, or a senior member?

Did you bother to read his profile?

[Grumpy]

NorCal-

I am only assuming by that answer that you are a cadet with little experience in the program.

From CAPP 151, Respect on Display.
THE SALUTE
Key Principle

When outdoors and in uniform, cadets salute military officers, CAP senior members, and cadet officers higher in rank than themselves. Senior members salute military officers and other CAP officers higher in rank than themselves.

If senior members would not be required to salute other senior members, cadets will not learn.

As simple as that.

Are you a cadet, or a senior member?

Did you bother to read his profile?

Phil, chill out no big thing dude.  He's the only 38 year old cadet in CAP.

[Luis R. Ramos]

Yessir, after I posted my response.

Which begs a new question.

How can a 38-year-old senior member, and a regular poster, can state that senior members are not required to salute each other?

[Grumpy]

Well, just be patient.  We're wearing the AF uniform, walking around with rank on our shoulders, it should be a no brainer.  Some. people just seem to want to make a big thing out nothing.  If you receive a salute from someone on active duty, return it exchange pleasentries on go on your way.  It's a greeting, like waving hi to a friend.  Ye gads, mountains and mole hills.

[PHall]

Yessir, after I posted my response.

Which begs a new question.

How can a 38-year-old senior member, and a regular poster, can state that senior members are not required to salute each other?

Show me a REGULATION cite where it says you have to.

CAPP 151 is a pamphet and because it a pamphet it's non-directive.   (CAPR 5-4, Para 1.i)

-----------------------------------

That being said I do salute CAP Senior Member Officers. And not because I have to either.

[JoeTomasone]

Yessir, after I posted my response.

Which begs a new question.

How can a 38-year-old senior member, and a regular poster, can state that senior members are not required to salute each other?

Show me a REGULATION cite where it says you have to.

CAPP 151 is a pamphet and because it a pamphet it's non-directive.   (CAPR 5-4, Para 1.i)

-----------------------------------

That being said I do salute CAP Senior Member Officers. And not because I have to either.

CAPM 39-1 doesn't say I have to remove my cap when I am indoors, or to put it on when I am outdoors, either.   That being said, I do both. 


CAPP 151 being non-directive is just another in a long series of problems relating to our regs, manuals, and pamphlets that no one seems to care about terribly much.    Same with ICLs being issued for uniform changes and never incorporated into the parent publication within the prescribed timeframe (90 days; CAPR 5-4, Para 4b). 

[Luis R. Ramos]

PHALL-

Your question reminds me of some lines of the movie A Few Good Men...

Capt. Ross: (This is you, PH) Ah, we're in luck then. Standard Operating Procedures, Rifle Security Company, Guantanamo Bay Cuba. Now I assume we'll find the term code red and its definition in that book. Am I correct?

Cpl. Barnes: No sir.

Capt. Ross: No? Corporal Barnes, I'm a Marine. Is there no book. No manual or pamphlet, no set of orders or regulations that lets me know that, as a Marine, one of my duties is to perform code reds?

Cpl. Barnes: No sir. No book, sir.

Capt. Ross: No further questions.

[as Ross walks back to his table Kaffee takes the book out of his hand]

Kaffee: Corporal, would you turn to the page in this book that says where the mess hall is, please.

Cpl. Barnes: Well, Lt. Kaffee, that's not in the book, sir.

Kaffee: You mean to say in all your time at Gitmo you've never had a meal?

Cpl. Barnes: No, sir. Three squares a day, sir...

[Garibaldi]

Hey, I quoted that a few pages back...or was it a related post...

[PHall]

Hey, I quoted that a few pages back...or was it a related post...

Related.