Saluting and non-saluting

[Storm Chaser]

However, we are required to salute military officers senior in grade to us. 

Wrong. We are required to salute ALL military officers regardless of our rank. Ex: A CAP Major General has to salute a Air Force 2nd Lt. I know this seems weird, but it is how it is.

Cite, please.

Urban legend IMO

When outdoors and in uniform, cadets salute military officers, CAP senior members, and cadet officers higher in rank than themselves. Senior members salute military officers and other CAP officers higher in rank than themselves. (emphasis mine)

The portion of that sentence in bold refers to both military and CAP officers.

[Devil Doc]

I am a bad example at this: real bad 

[. . .]
Also, I usually tell cadets to not salute me, unless the DCC or CC or Guest is around, im only 8-10 years older than them, lol.

Brandon,

Please don't do that.  It is hard enough to run a challenging cadet program without seniors actively undermining the training we are giving because they are trying to be "the cool senior member."

I know your heart is in the right place, and I genuinely appreciate your efforts and contributions.

But these particular rules are there for a reason, and it would be helpful if you would help the cadets follow them.

Ned Lee
CP Enthusiast

Ya, I guess I keep forgetting they look up to me, Just feels wierd to me. I am getting better at it though, I walked past a Cadet, he didnt salute and I went Really? Really? He said sorry Sir, I was like I know I dont normally want you to salute me, but please do. I have to remember I am a "Leader" and "Mentor" now.

[lordmonar]

If it feels weird to you get saluted......go NCO.

[Eclipse]

If it feels weird to you get saluted......go NCO.

Demonstrating the full weight and value of an NCO program in a CAP context - hiding from salutes.

[lordmonar]

If it feels weird to you get saluted......go NCO.

Demonstrating the full weight and value of an NCO program in a CAP context - hiding from salutes.

Thank you for your input.   ........there was more....but I decided to be the bigger man.

[Eclipse]

Feel free to enlighten us - seriously, you would actually suggest to a member they
should convert to NCO to hide from salutes?

FWIW, I know there's no real answers to the NCO question, I just like the thought of that vein on your forehead pulsing...
...also I know exactly what I can go do to myself...   

[lordmonar]

Feel free to enlighten us - seriously, you would actually suggest to a member they
should convert to NCO to hide from salutes?

FWIW, I know there's no real answers to the NCO question, I just like the thought of that vein on your forehead pulsing...
...also I know exactly what I can go do to myself...   

No....I am seriously suggesting that if a member is not comfortable in the traditional officer-mentor role.....that he may be more effective in the NCO-mentor role.

It is called situational leadership....putting round pegs into round holes instead of just trying to ram everyone into YOUR concept of how it should be....and then demeaning everything and everyone who disagrees with your perfect world view.

Have a good day.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

No....I am seriously suggesting that if a member is not comfortable in the traditional officer-mentor role.....that he may be more effective in the NCO-mentor role.

IF that avenue is open to them.  As currently constituted in CAP, it is not.

[lordmonar]

No....I am seriously suggesting that if a member is not comfortable in the traditional officer-mentor role.....that he may be more effective in the NCO-mentor role.

IF that avenue is open to them.  As currently constituted in CAP, it is not.

For Devil Doc it is.   And as currently envisioned it will be for everyone as well soon (in a few years anyway).

[Eclipse]

No....I am seriously suggesting that if a member is not comfortable in the traditional officer-mentor role.....that he may be more effective in the NCO-mentor role.

NCO-Mentor role?  We don't have that in CAP.

We have adult members and cadets.

The roles are identical, regardless of the grade on the shoulder (or arm).

And they always will be.

[lordmonar]

No....I am seriously suggesting that if a member is not comfortable in the traditional officer-mentor role.....that he may be more effective in the NCO-mentor role.

NCO-Mentor role?  We don't have that in CAP.

We have adult members and cadets.

The roles are identical, regardless of the grade on the shoulder (or arm).

And they always will be.

You say it.....but it is just not true.    Look at Devil Doc's comments.  He feels uncomfortable as an officer....with the customs and courtesies that go with it.   He probably will be happier as an NCO.

As and NCO myself....there is a difference between how I interact with cadets and seniors then when I was a Major.

As the NCO corp expands and matures.....this distinction will continue to grow and mature.

Eclipse....here comes the bus....get on it....or be under it. 

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

If I could trade my railway tracks in for SrA stripes, I would do so.

However, an SrA is not an NCO.

[Eclipse]

As the NCO corp expands and matures.....this distinction will continue to grow and mature.

This is what is referred to as "magical thinking".

You have a demonstrably shrinking membership, and struggling units all across the board, not to mention issues of
organizational viability, all generally ignored.

Somehow allowing a percentage of that shrinking member base to simply disavow involvement in the greater
program to allow them to concentrate on an area which has no need for existence will make it "better".

You're 60,000 members away from it even being a viable conversation.

This is akin to repainting the deck chairs on the Titanic that haven't already floated away.

[lordmonar]

You are absolutely right....and the answer is to kick out more of those people and get our reporting numbers correct.

Ah.....Eclipse you are so funny.

Anyways.....Cyborg and Devil Doc.....look into the NCO corps....we can't take you, Cybrog, yet but according to the "plan" we should have a viable PD and promotion system that will take non-prior NCO's soon (that is CAP soon not real world soon )
Devil Doc....I really think you may find wearing SSgt stripes a better fit.

[Eclipse]

You are absolutely right....and the answer is to kick out more of those people and get our reporting numbers correct.

Yes, it is, or at least properly classify them.

A baseline expectation of any successful organization, and a lesson lost on those that fail.

[Devil Doc]

Ya, I was debating the NCO Role, I also would like to have RailRoad Tracks Someday....Decisions.

I might feel more Confortable with a NCO Role, However I wonder how the Cadets would see it?

I am slowly getting used to the Officer Role, by the time i have conformed, the NCO grades should be available. NCO Vs Officer is like a double edge sword.

[lordmonar]

Ya, I was debating the NCO Role, I also would like to have RailRoad Tracks Someday....Decisions.

I might feel more Confortable with a NCO Role, However I wonder how the Cadets would see it?

I am slowly getting used to the Officer Role, by the time i have conformed, the NCO grades should be available. NCO Vs Officer is like a double edge sword.

I had not problem with my cadets when I transitioned.   The biggest problem is that the cadets still treat me like an officer sometimes.....when I point out you don't call the room to attention for NCO's they all say "but you are a Senior Member".

I find that it is easier to be "the cool guy" that is the cadets don't have to be always worrying about snapping to attention every time I ask them a question.  They can relax a little around me and we can communicate better.

[Devil Doc]

Ya, I was debating the NCO Role, I also would like to have RailRoad Tracks Someday....Decisions.

I might feel more Confortable with a NCO Role, However I wonder how the Cadets would see it?

I am slowly getting used to the Officer Role, by the time i have conformed, the NCO grades should be available. NCO Vs Officer is like a double edge sword.

I had not problem with my cadets when I transitioned.   The biggest problem is that the cadets still treat me like an officer sometimes.....when I point out you don't call the room to attention for NCO's they all say "but you are a Senior Member".

I find that it is easier to be "the cool guy" that is the cadets don't have to be always worrying about snapping to attention every time I ask them a question.  They can relax a little around me and we can communicate better.

That would be a good reason why I would want to become Enlisted, the "Cool Guy" and dont have to worrry about saluting, however, I dunno SSGT Smith or 1st Smith?
or MSGT Smith or Captain Smith

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

I had not problem with my cadets when I transitioned.   The biggest problem is that the cadets still treat me like an officer sometimes.....when I point out you don't call the room to attention for NCO's they all say "but you are a Senior Member".

I found that weird when I was a SMWOG...I had no grade, no status as officer, enlisted, warrant or NCO, but nonetheless they snapped to when I entered a room, addressed me as "sir" and saluted me...even though I was wearing nothing to denote an officer.

I also knew that I had to render officer courtesies to Flight Officers, but I had a stinker of a time recognising them, especially in BDU's.

[BHartman007]

Cadets are required to render C&C to all senior members, regardless of grade.