Flight Officers: What's the point?

[DoubleSecret]

Candidates who successfully complete Warrant Officer Candidate School are appointed in the grade of Warrant Officer One. When promoted to Chief Warrant Officer Two, warrant officers are commissioned by the President and have the same legal status as their traditional commissioned officer counterparts. However, warrant officers remain single-specialty officers whose career track is oriented towards progressing within their career field rather than focusing on increased levels of command and staff duty positions

http://usacac.army.mil/cac2/wocc/woprogram.asp#gradestructure

§571. Warrant officers: grades
(a) The regular warrant officer grades in the armed forces corresponding to the pay grades prescribed for warrant officers by section 201(b) of title 37 are as follows:

Warrant officer grade:
Chief warrant officer, W–5.
Chief warrant officer, W–4.
Chief warrant officer, W–3.
Chief warrant officer, W–2.
Warrant officer, W–1.

(b) Appointments in the grade of regular warrant officer, W–1, shall be made by warrant, except that with respect to an armed force under the jurisdiction of the Secretary of a military department, the Secretary concerned may provide by regulation that appointments in that grade in that armed force shall be made by commission. Appointments in regular chief warrant officer grades shall be made by commission by the President, and appointments (whether by warrant or commission) in the grade of regular warrant officer, W–1, shall be made by the President, except that appointments in that grade in the Coast Guard shall be made by the Secretary concerned.
(c) An appointment may not be made in any of the armed forces in the regular warrant officer grade of chief warrant officer, W–5, if the appointment would result in more than 5 percent of the warrant officers of that armed force on active duty being in the grade of chief warrant officer, W–5. In computing the limitation prescribed in the preceding sentence, there shall be excluded warrant officers described in section 582 of this title.
(Added Pub. L. 102–190, div. A, title XI, §1112(a), Dec. 5, 1991, 105 Stat. 1493; amended Pub. L. 102–484, div. A, title X, §1052(2), Oct. 23, 1992, 106 Stat. 2499; Pub. L. 103–337, div. A, title V, §541(a)(2), Oct. 5, 1994, 108 Stat. 2764; Pub. L. 111–383, div. A, title V, §502(a), Jan. 7, 2011, 124 Stat. 4207.)

It's possible to be a commissioned W-1.  Depends how each service secretary wants to do it.

[Brit_in_CAP]

And that "...wholly unready to even handle the Coast Guard." passage?  Ouch!

As a former CGAuxie, living in a city with a cutter ported, a Small Boat Station, and an Air Station a few hours away...such a remark would NOT go down well here.

+1 for me.

Daughter serves in the USCG...the passage is downright insulting.
That said, everyone is entitled to their opinion...

[Garibaldi]

And that "...wholly unready to even handle the Coast Guard." passage?  Ouch!

As a former CGAuxie, living in a city with a cutter ported, a Small Boat Station, and an Air Station a few hours away...such a remark would NOT go down well here.

+1 for me.

Daughter serves in the USCG...the passage is downright insulting.
That said, everyone is entitled to their opinion...

Unfortunately, that seems to be the prevailing opinion among the military men and women I have worked with. I am not sure why Coasties are looked down upon by the other services, but they are.

There was a guy I worked with at AT&T a few years back who was alternately proud and disdainful of his CG time. He was in for I guess 4 years and was boasting about his "military service" around the four or five recently separated Soldiers who also happened to work with us. They, in no uncertain terms, told him that the Coast Guard was NOT a military organization, that the Treasury department was NOT connected to the DoD, and that the only connection to the military was the grade and ratings. Since I was not in CAP at the time, and do not recognize my own "time" (one month, 4 days) as having served in the Army, I kept my mouth shut. Any time this poor sap opened his mouth about "...when I was in the military" he was roundly shouted down.

I wonder why this is so. Unfortunately, the hierarchy among the "uniformed" services is such that the Coast Guard is ranked below the Boy Scouts in terms of respect by the military people I've met is sad.

[Brit_in_CAP]

And that "...wholly unready to even handle the Coast Guard." passage?  Ouch!

As a former CGAuxie, living in a city with a cutter ported, a Small Boat Station, and an Air Station a few hours away...such a remark would NOT go down well here.

+1 for me.

Daughter serves in the USCG...the passage is downright insulting.
That said, everyone is entitled to their opinion...

Unfortunately, that seems to be the prevailing opinion among the military men and women I have worked with. I am not sure why Coasties are looked down upon by the other services, but they are.

There was a guy I worked with at AT&T a few years back who was alternately proud and disdainful of his CG time. He was in for I guess 4 years and was boasting about his "military service" around the four or five recently separated Soldiers who also happened to work with us. They, in no uncertain terms, told him that the Coast Guard was NOT a military organization, that the Treasury department was NOT connected to the DoD, and that the only connection to the military was the grade and ratings. Since I was not in CAP at the time, and do not recognize my own "time" (one month, 4 days) as having served in the Army, I kept my mouth shut. Any time this poor sap opened his mouth about "...when I was in the military" he was roundly shouted down.

I wonder why this is so. Unfortunately, the hierarchy among the "uniformed" services is such that the Coast Guard is ranked below the Boy Scouts in terms of respect by the military people I've met is sad.

Interesting.

I've been around a large number of Marines - #1 son serves in the Corps - and I've found them to be very respectful and supportive of the CG (before they know that we have a Coastie in the family); I've met several who've changed service to the CG when they ran into an up or out wall or their spouse called 'time' on the endless deployments.

I've also encountered any number of people like the ones Garibaldi has met.

In the end, I think the CG being passed from department to department hasn't helped their cause.

Who knows, to be honest!

[PHall]

And that "...wholly unready to even handle the Coast Guard." passage?  Ouch!

As a former CGAuxie, living in a city with a cutter ported, a Small Boat Station, and an Air Station a few hours away...such a remark would NOT go down well here.

+1 for me.

Daughter serves in the USCG...the passage is downright insulting.
That said, everyone is entitled to their opinion...

Unfortunately, that seems to be the prevailing opinion among the military men and women I have worked with. I am not sure why Coasties are looked down upon by the other services, but they are.

There was a guy I worked with at AT&T a few years back who was alternately proud and disdainful of his CG time. He was in for I guess 4 years and was boasting about his "military service" around the four or five recently separated Soldiers who also happened to work with us. They, in no uncertain terms, told him that the Coast Guard was NOT a military organization, that the Treasury department was NOT connected to the DoD, and that the only connection to the military was the grade and ratings. Since I was not in CAP at the time, and do not recognize my own "time" (one month, 4 days) as having served in the Army, I kept my mouth shut. Any time this poor sap opened his mouth about "...when I was in the military" he was roundly shouted down.

I wonder why this is so. Unfortunately, the hierarchy among the "uniformed" services is such that the Coast Guard is ranked below the Boy Scouts in terms of respect by the military people I've met is sad.

Interesting.

I've been around a large number of Marines - #1 son serves in the Corps - and I've found them to be very respectful and supportive of the CG (before they know that we have a Coastie in the family); I've met several who've changed service to the CG when they ran into an up or out wall or their spouse called 'time' on the endless deployments.

I've also encountered any number of people like the ones Garibaldi has met.

In the end, I think the CG being passed from department to department hasn't helped their cause.

Who knows, to be honest!

But to the folks the Coast Guard rescues, there are no better people on the planet.
Go some place like Alaska and say something bad about the Coasties and you'll probably end up with a fat lip.

[Brit_in_CAP]

And that "...wholly unready to even handle the Coast Guard." passage?  Ouch!

As a former CGAuxie, living in a city with a cutter ported, a Small Boat Station, and an Air Station a few hours away...such a remark would NOT go down well here.

+1 for me.

Daughter serves in the USCG...the passage is downright insulting.
That said, everyone is entitled to their opinion...

Unfortunately, that seems to be the prevailing opinion among the military men and women I have worked with. I am not sure why Coasties are looked down upon by the other services, but they are.

There was a guy I worked with at AT&T a few years back who was alternately proud and disdainful of his CG time. He was in for I guess 4 years and was boasting about his "military service" around the four or five recently separated Soldiers who also happened to work with us. They, in no uncertain terms, told him that the Coast Guard was NOT a military organization, that the Treasury department was NOT connected to the DoD, and that the only connection to the military was the grade and ratings. Since I was not in CAP at the time, and do not recognize my own "time" (one month, 4 days) as having served in the Army, I kept my mouth shut. Any time this poor sap opened his mouth about "...when I was in the military" he was roundly shouted down.

I wonder why this is so. Unfortunately, the hierarchy among the "uniformed" services is such that the Coast Guard is ranked below the Boy Scouts in terms of respect by the military people I've met is sad.

Interesting.

I've been around a large number of Marines - #1 son serves in the Corps - and I've found them to be very respectful and supportive of the CG (before they know that we have a Coastie in the family); I've met several who've changed service to the CG when they ran into an up or out wall or their spouse called 'time' on the endless deployments.

I've also encountered any number of people like the ones Garibaldi has met.

In the end, I think the CG being passed from department to department hasn't helped their cause.

Who knows, to be honest!

But to the folks the Coast Guard rescues, there are no better people on the planet.
Go some place like Alaska and say something bad about the Coasties and you'll probably end up with a fat lip.

:clap: :clap:

Couldn't put it better!!

[antdetroitwallyball]

As it has already been pointed out, there are (generally) enourmous differences in maturity between even 18 and 19, and 19 and 20, and 20 and 21.

I would never support the idea of 18 year old SM who holds the duty position of leading cadets. 18 year olds should not be allowed to be "Adult Leaders" because they are simply not true adults. You can pass a law to make the age of majority 15 if you like, but it will have not effect on the science of human brain development.

I tell people this:

When you are 13, you are the smartest you'll ever be as a teenager. You know your place, for the most part. As you approach 16, 17, 18, you get dumber. The low point is 18. At that point, you have convinced yourself that you are somehow an adult. In fact, you are an experienced CHILD, nothing more. Maybe at 20 we can think of you as an inexperienced ADULT. But even that's a stretch. My squadron has several 17-20 year old cadets. For the most part, they do great as senior cadet leaders. But I don't think most of them really have the maturity to serve as "Adult Leaders."

I find it amusing to often witness a 17 or 18 year old cadet get all huffy and puffy and self-righteous about how some basic cadet 12 year old keeps asking the most inane and irrelavent questions. I think to myself quietly: "6 months ago, you yourself were not too far ahead of that little 12 year old in terms of maturity in behavour."

I don't even support sending 18 year olds to the military. I've seen too many 18 year olds be wholly unready to even handle the Coast Guard. No branches are hurting for troops right now. Raise the limit to 21, and have a waiver process for the deserving exception. This, however, is a conversation for elsewhere.

Interesting point of view.  I wonder if the "17 - 20 year old cadets" in your squadron that you interact with know that you feel this way.  Well, they probably know now, right?  People (yes, even those people with the "teenager" label affixed) often live up to the expectations placed on them.  If you aren't expecting much in the way of maturity from that age group, they'll probably be more than happy to oblige and (barely) meet whatever minimal expectations you might have.

First, I don't name others and I don't identify myself. No one is being singled out here.

Second, I think it's important that cadets in leadership roles are regularily reminded about how their own personal growth occurred. The whole point of adult leadership in the cadet program is to keep the senior cadet leaders grounded. That's about it. Beyond that, they can pretty much run their own program. So, I'm not sure where your issue with me on all this is.

Daughter serves in the USCG

I appreciate the service of your daughter.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

They, in no uncertain terms, told him that the Coast Guard was NOT a military organization, that the Treasury department was NOT connected to the DoD, and that the only connection to the military was the grade and ratings.

Then they, in no uncertain terms, were fools.

The Coast Guard is "at all times an armed service of the United States" and can be moved to the control of the Department of the Navy in time of war or as the President directs.  In terms of size, the USCG is by itself the world's 12th largest naval force.

All Coast Guard personnel are at all times subject to the UCMJ.

I would like someone from another service who disparages the USCG to try and get away with not saluting one of their commissioned/warrant officers.

The Marines really like them...because a lot of the LST's that deposited Marines on various Pacific islands were crewed by Coasties.  One of them, Signalman Douglas Munro, earned the USCG's only (to date) MoH.

One of these twits who say "the CG isn't military" should tell it to this person...

Just 8 Weeks: USCG Boot Camp - 2

[a2capt]

[Flying Pig]

They, in no uncertain terms, told him that the Coast Guard was NOT a military organization, that the Treasury department was NOT connected to the DoD, and that the only connection to the military was the grade and ratings.

Then they, in no uncertain terms, were fools.

The Coast Guard is "at all times an armed service of the United States" and can be moved to the control of the Department of the Navy in time of war or as the President directs.  In terms of size, the USCG is by itself the world's 12th largest naval force.

All Coast Guard personnel are at all times subject to the UCMJ.

I would like someone from another service who disparages the USCG to try and get away with not saluting one of their commissioned/warrant officers.

The Marines really like them...because a lot of the LST's that deposited Marines on various Pacific islands were crewed by Coasties.  One of them, Signalman Douglas Munro, earned the USCG's only (to date) MoH.

One of these twits who say "the CG isn't military" should tell it to this person...

Just 8 Weeks: USCG Boot Camp - 2

Looks like my police academy   You cant get all fired up over inter-service rivalry or other negative comments.  People bash the air force for being like a bunch of civilians, bash the Navy for all sorts of homosexual submarine jokes, Marines for not being able to read or write, Army for being all the left overs who couldn't get into any of the other services, CG for being non-mil....  none of it matters. 

When I was in the Marines the "joke" I always heard about the Coast Guard when we were all bored 19 year old infantryman sitting in the barracks was "Well, if you wanted to shoot people with your .50cal you should have joined the Coast Guard."   

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Of course.  I've heard the comments about the "Chair Force," as I imagine most of us have, as well as the comments about the Navy being the Marines' "taxi service."

However, to say the CG is not an armed service is just incorrect.

And you could leave your police academy training (and I respect those...there was one not too far from me one place I lived where they trained State Troopers) just by saying "I quit" (correct me if I'm wrong, please).  You cannot do that at Cape May.

[Panache]

I've always seen it as good-natured rivalry and not actual disdain. 

"Why do you have to be at least six feet tall to join the Coast Guard?  So you can walk back to shore if your boat sinks."

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Joke taken, although the Canadian CG is not military; they are part of the Crown Civil Service.

[Panache]

Joke taken, although the Canadian CG is not military; they are part of the Crown Civil Service.

I just thought it was a funny picture, the be honest.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

The CCG would probably find it funny, too.

[Flying Pig]

Of course.  I've heard the comments about the "Chair Force," as I imagine most of us have, as well as the comments about the Navy being the Marines' "taxi service."

However, to say the CG is not an armed service is just incorrect.

And you could leave your police academy training (and I respect those...there was one not too far from me one place I lived where they trained State Troopers) just by saying "I quit" (correct me if I'm wrong, please).  You cannot do that at Cape May.

You don't even have to say "I quite". .  I rememeber many times being thrashed between classes, down in the push up position being told we would make terrible beat partners  blah blah blah... And people just standing up, wiping their hands off and walking to their cars and driving away.   Nobody ever said a word, never mentioned it, instructors never acknowledged it in front of us.  By the time we got back I to class all their books were gone, name placard was gone... Poooof.  Gone.

[JeffDG]

Joke taken, although the Canadian CG is not military; they are part of the Crown Civil Service.

Just like the USCG is part of the DHS, not the DoD.

[GroundHawg]

My last unit has a female cadet who graduated HS at 15, is now in her senior year of college at 18, has been enrolled in both AF ROTC and CAP the whole time and will be commissioning at the age of 18 this fall. Last I heard she was going as a ABM but was on a wait list for flight school.
You only have to be 14... yes 14 to take university level ROTC classes.

I have read more than once of young men and women graduating college and HS at the same time, and think I read of a girl in FL that graduated college BEFORE graduating HS this year. Age is just a number.

[arajca]

She is an exception, not the norm. Rules are made for the norm, not the exception.

In any case, AFAIK, the AF has decreed no CAP officers under 21. Therefore, we have Flight Officers.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Joke taken, although the Canadian CG is not military; they are part of the Crown Civil Service.

Just like the USCG is part of the DHS, not the DoD.

However, the USCG is under the UCMJ at all times.  As I understand it, the CCG does not come under Queen's Regulations and Orders for the Canadian Forces.

You don't even have to say "I quite". .  I rememeber many times being thrashed between classes, down in the push up position being told we would make terrible beat partners  blah blah blah... And people just standing up, wiping their hands off and walking to their cars and driving away.   Nobody ever said a word, never mentioned it, instructors never acknowledged it in front of us.  By the time we got back I to class all their books were gone, name placard was gone... Poooof.  Gone.

Well...for those who could not handle the strenuous training of being a law enforcement officer (and I have a good friend who is now going on 30 years in the field - he started as a jail officer, moved up to Patrolman, and is now a Detective)...I suppose that is the best way to handle those who leave/quit/are pushed.