Flight Officers: What's the point?

[Flying Pig]

I would actually say most quit vs being dropped.  We started with 46 and graduated 22.  Funny thing is that I don't remember any of the people who dropped.  And some dropped months into training.  I know one was hired by the CHP and dropped to go attend their academy.  But most academies are affiliated with a college.  So in reality, all you are doing is attending a college class.  Im going on 16 years sworn, and now Im a civilian LE pilot.  Ill get back sworn probably this year, Ive just been pretty busy at work getting some people trained up so I cant take a month off to go to the transition academy for CA -> FL certs

[Майор Хаткевич]

Takes a month? Laws that different?

[a2capt]

Wow, really? I would have thought they'd have done that first. So you can land it, and do no more than anyone else, except you've got a radio ..

[Майор Хаткевич]

Maybe they didn't have the funds...

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

FP: Do you fly helos, fixed-wing or both?

[Mitchell 1969]

Of course.  I've heard the comments about the "Chair Force," as I imagine most of us have, as well as the comments about the Navy being the Marines' "taxi service."

However, to say the CG is not an armed service is just incorrect.

And you could leave your police academy training (and I respect those...there was one not too far from me one place I lived where they trained State Troopers) just by saying "I quit" (correct me if I'm wrong, please).  You cannot do that at Cape May.

You don't even have to say "I quite". .  I rememeber many times being thrashed between classes, down in the push up position being told we would make terrible beat partners  blah blah blah... And people just standing up, wiping their hands off and walking to their cars and driving away.   Nobody ever said a word, never mentioned it, instructors never acknowledged it in front of us.  By the time we got back I to class all their books were gone, name placard was gone... Poooof.  Gone.

I've seen them walk away from the police academy during the first two hours of day one.

[Mitchell 1969]

Takes a month? Laws that different?

It's not just black letter laws that are different. Case law decisions vary from state to state and between federal circuits. Also, most rorqual courses contain training to pass the end of academy exam and pass seraphim less defense, cuffing, range qualification.

[Майор Хаткевич]

I thought, at least at the federal level, previous case law is used in rulings. Ned?

[Ned]

I thought, at least at the federal level, previous case law is used in rulings. Ned?

Over 98% of the criminal law enforcement (including statutes and case law) is a state and local matter.  For the average cop on the street, Federal law and decisions aren't really a factor.

For legal trivia guys like me, state laws can and do vary significantly over this magnificent country.  As just a couple of examples, in some states marijuana possession is still a felony and in others you can't even get arrested for it.  Similarly, things like firearm possession laws vary significantly from jurisdiction to jurisdiction.

But bottom line, criminal law is almost exclusively a state law concern.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

All right, Colonel, since you have offered your input...

I live not far from an international border.  Every now and then you'll hear about some numb-nut trying to smuggle various "substances" into the country, and almost inevitably CBP, with its detection devices, dogs and other gee-whiz James Bond things, makes their entry into the United States somewhat inconvenient.

Is that always a purely Federal matter, or do CBP, who are Federal officers, hand over to State authorities once the arrest has been made?

[Ned]

Is that always a purely Federal matter, or do CBP, who are Federal officers, hand over to State authorities once the arrest has been made?

Actual border violations are one of the few areas the Feds own fairly exclusively (along with immigration-related crimes and crimes committed on "federal enclave jurisdictions" like most AD military bases).  However, when it comes to routine drug stuff, it is common for the DEA and others to bring cases to local prosecutors.  As I understand it, the US Attorneys have guidelines that result in many cases investigated by Federal officers being referred to the locals.

A lot of serious law enforcement stuff is conducted by joint Federal / state / local "task forces" that include representatives from a wide variety of agencies, depending on their focus.  Sometimes the choice is as simple as the lead cop estimating whether a given case might receive a longer sentence in state or Federal courts.

As you can imagine, relationships between the Feds and the locals are vary significantly, which might also affect where a given case is filed.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Thanks.  I hear about this now and then and just wondered how it was handled.

Over in Her Majesty's Dominion of Canada, I think CBSA just hands them over to the RCMP.

[Mitchell 1969]

I thought, at least at the federal level, previous case law is used in rulings. Ned?

Over 98% of the criminal law enforcement (including statutes and case law) is a state and local matter.  For the average cop on the street, Federal law and decisions aren't really a factor.

For legal trivia guys like me, state laws can and do vary significantly over this magnificent country.  As just a couple of examples, in some states marijuana possession is still a felony and in others you can't even get arrested for it.  Similarly, things like firearm possession laws vary significantly from jurisdiction to jurisdiction.

But bottom line, criminal law is almost exclusively a state law concern.

There are a number of crimes that are both state and federal crimes, which can be prosecuted in either jurisdiction. In fact, they can be prosecuted in BOTH systems. (I know the first non-lawyer/non-cop reaction to that is typically "Nuh-uh, double jeopardy." Which, of course, it isn't - both sovereign powers can prosecute for the same act).

In fact, some actions can get a triple whammy. A great example is carrying firearms past the screening checkpoint at airports. You can get slammed in federal criminal court, state criminal court and a federal "administrative proceeding" which results in a fiscal penalty only.

Practically, though, unless it's a headline grabber or huge amount of seized money involved, the federal prosecutors "decline to prosecute at this time," leaving it to the DA or City attorney to bring it to state court. And a goodly number of those never get there, for various reasons. That leaves the federal administrative proceeding - and they almost always get their bucks.

[MHC5096]

CBP border seizures involving drugs initially get referred to ICE-HSI for federal prosecution. Unless the seizure is extremely large ICE-HSI typically declines prosecution. At that point, CBP will usually turn the case over to the state. Back when I was working the line, we usually ended turning the whole thing over to the New York State Police.

[Flying Pig]

FP: Do you fly helos, fixed-wing or both?

Wow.... sorry I didnt make it back for all of this   CyBorg, Im a dual rated CFI.  On the airplane side, mostly the C206 and the 182.  On the helicopter side, UH1H, Jet Ranger and the MD500.

As far as the academy, the cross over academy is about 3 weeks or so depending on what academy you choose, then I take the state test to get my FL LE Certification.  As far as laws being different, yes.... they can be quite different.  What may be a felony in CA could be completely legal in FL particularly with weapons laws. Crime fighting is crime fighting, but I cant be running around with my CA laws in my head chasing down people in FL.  Good way to get sued.  As far as me being a civilian pilot, I fly with a Deputy observer.

[SARDOC]

Of course.  I've heard the comments about the "Chair Force," as I imagine most of us have, as well as the comments about the Navy being the Marines' "taxi service."

However, to say the CG is not an armed service is just incorrect.

And you could leave your police academy training (and I respect those...there was one not too far from me one place I lived where they trained State Troopers) just by saying "I quit" (correct me if I'm wrong, please).  You cannot do that at Cape May.

You don't even have to say "I quite". .  I rememeber many times being thrashed between classes, down in the push up position being told we would make terrible beat partners  blah blah blah... And people just standing up, wiping their hands off and walking to their cars and driving away.   Nobody ever said a word, never mentioned it, instructors never acknowledged it in front of us.  By the time we got back I to class all their books were gone, name placard was gone... Poooof.  Gone.

I've seen them walk away from the police academy during the first two hours of day one.

The Police Academy in the city where I worked for the Fire Department was notorious for having multiple traffic cops on the main road that led into the Academy on Day one...they were making the point that they are subject to the same laws that they are being asked to enforce.   any police recruits that were stopped for Expired safety Inspection/registration, speeding>5mph over the limit were referred to the Academy Staff... There weren't many recruits who escaped some kind of criticism on that morning... a number of recruits didn't make it through those first few hours.

[gshayd]

In order to qualify for OCS in the Army you must be between the ages of 19 and 28 and a college graduate with a four year degree as an active duty member or a civilian.  I do not know of too many 19 year olds with a college degree.  I know that people have earned college degrees while not being at the age of majority.  If they are 19 and have a Bachelors degree then they may be an exceptional person who could be a good 2LT.  So if you have a person who has been through the cadet program and has x hours of College he might be ready to be a 2LT. A condition of his appointment as a 2LT is that he gets a degree or completes 60 hours of College.  I learned some basic skills in College and how to regurgitate answers but I also learned to ask questions and research problems for my Bachelors Degree. a 2LT is not a finished product but a work in progress who usually has a mentor(s). However, the regulation says you must be 21 to be a Officer in the Civil Air Patrol. I think that the FO status is kind ol Like a CAP OCS.

[GroundHawg]

In order to qualify for OCS in the Army you must be between the ages of 19 and 28 and a college graduate with a four year degree as an active duty member or a civilian.  I do not know of too many 19 year olds with a college degree.  I know that people have earned college degrees while not being at the age of majority.  If they are 19 and have a Bachelors degree then they may be an exceptional person who could be a good 2LT.  So if you have a person who has been through the cadet program and has x hours of College he might be ready to be a 2LT. A condition of his appointment as a 2LT is that he gets a degree or completes 60 hours of College.  I learned some basic skills in College and how to regurgitate answers but I also learned to ask questions and research problems for my Bachelors Degree. a 2LT is not a finished product but a work in progress who usually has a mentor(s). However, the regulation says you must be 21 to be a Officer in the Civil Air Patrol. I think that the FO status is kind ol Like a CAP OCS.

THIS is a great answer and a great concept for the FO program that I will be using from now on. Thanks for your input!

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Kind of non-concur on the FO/OCS comparison.

If it were that way, ALL CAP officer candidates would be required to go through it...and I don't think that's a bad thing.