Is America's Air Force Dying?

[Panache]

Is America's Air Force Dying?

Excluding remotely-piloted aircraft, the Air Force has proposed divesting about 634 aircraft from 2010 through 2015—nearly 160 percent more aircraft than it bought over the same period. This harsh reality demonstrates the intense pressure on Air Force modernization accounts as the service struggles to allocate shrinking resources to buy newer and more expensive airframes.

[Майор Хаткевич]

Quality vs. Quantity. Doesn't add up to death.

[The14th]

It's not just the Air Force...it's the entire military.

[nomiddlemas]

Yep the entire military is being cut down.  I guess some government people just are not getting paid enough.  Pay cuts to military members are also being applied.   

[LSThiker]

Cutting DoD budgets and force re-structure is not necessarily evil as long as it is being done correctly.  It can help slim down the military and prevent pork-barrel spending.

I am sure with a number of former and current military on these boards, they can relate to the amount of dead weight in the military.  I have meet people that are at 19 years of service and have not passed a PT test in the last 5 years.  Or that SNCO that seems to fill some made up position in the unit but really does not do anything.  Or that SNCO alcoholic who shows up hung-over at least once a week.  Or that E-6 favorite of the CSM that has twice pissed hot.  Or that female MWR soldier whose husband is stationed somewhere else.  Or that female soldier that cannot pass a single Skill Level 1/SMCT or cannot lead herself out of a hangar bay, but is a SL because she is the hottest woman in the company.  Sorry, these people should have been processed out long ago.

The spending can be terrible.  How much money did we spend on FCS projects such as the Crusader, Commanche, Non-Line of Sight Cannon, the ten different versions of body armor, the ACUs/ABUs, Sea Shadow, etc.  Think about the projects that we over spent on such as the F-22, F-35, stealth superdestroyer USS Zumwalt, and the Littoral Combat Ships (which are now fully assessed as combat ineffective).

I understand R&D does not always yield products.  I also understand a number of great and important things have come out of projects such as the DUKE, Blue Force Tracker, MC4, etc.

The cuts to the military need to be appropriate and honest.   

[PHall]

Folks, this is nothing new, it happens just about everytime we get out of a "major" conflict.
We had a big drawdown after Vietnam. Then Reagan built us back up again to face the Soviets.
Another drawdown after the Soviet collapse. Another buildup for the First Gulf War.
And when it comes to numbers of aircraft in the Air Force, that's been going down since WWII.

[lordmonar]

Let's see....there was the draw down in the 70's following Vietnam.  Then after a brief up swell under Mr Regan....we drew down again after Desert Storm.  Then again after Bosnia.  Then again after Somalia.  Then again after Kosovo.  Then again after Iraq.

Like Phall said....this ain't nothing new.   It is just reality smacking us in the face.   The USAF is and always has been about the Buck Rodgers.    At least this time they are doing it right....and actually looking in people's records and getting rid of the marginal (or at least those with some sort of black mark against them.)  Under the Bush Draw-down....they were so eager to let people go....they were letting the top performers out and the marginal people (the ones who knew they would never make it in the real world) were just hoping that enough volunteers got out.  And that is just what they did.

This time around......they are looking for cause...unfortunately that just turned it into a One Failure Air Force......One of my CAP buddies got his walking papers because he failed a PT test two years ago.  A single test...which was taken right after a prolonged illness....a single test which the member passed on the very next try...and has continued to pass since then.   But that is the way it goes. 

[The14th]

Just because it's happened before, doesn't mean it's a good thing.

[lordmonar]

Just because it's happened before, doesn't mean it's a good thing.

Well.....define "a good thing".

[LSThiker]

Just because it's happened before, doesn't mean it's a good thing.

As Lordmonar, depends on how you define "good".  But just because it is happening now does not necessarily mean it is a bad thing either.  Politics has this weird tendency to be both good and bad at the same time.

[nomiddlemas]

Cutting DoD budgets and force re-structure is not necessarily evil as long as it is being done correctly.  It can help slim down the military and prevent pork-barrel spending.

I am sure with a number of former and current military on these boards, they can relate to the amount of dead weight in the military.  I have meet people that are at 19 years of service and have not passed a PT test in the last 5 years.  Or that SNCO that seems to fill some made up position in the unit but really does not do anything.  Or that SNCO alcoholic who shows up hung-over at least once a week.  Or that E-6 favorite of the CSM that has twice pissed hot.  Or that female MWR soldier whose husband is stationed somewhere else.  Or that female soldier that cannot pass a single Skill Level 1/SMCT or cannot lead herself out of a hangar bay, but is a SL because she is the hottest woman in the company.  Sorry, these people should have been processed out long ago.

The spending can be terrible.  How much money did we spend on FCS projects such as the Crusader, Commanche, Non-Line of Sight Cannon, the ten different versions of body armor, the ACUs/ABUs, Sea Shadow, etc.  Think about the projects that we over spent on such as the F-22, F-35, stealth superdestroyer USS Zumwalt, and the Littoral Combat Ships (which are now fully assessed as combat ineffective).

I understand R&D does not always yield products.  I also understand a number of great and important things have come out of projects such as the DUKE, Blue Force Tracker, MC4, etc.

The cuts to the military need to be appropriate and honest.

Hey I agree with you there.  There are a ton of people that are just sitting in chairs twiddling their thumbs up to nothing.  I think that some people should get put out and do something useful. 

[nomiddlemas]

I heard that they are working to retire the KC-135 as well.  I think it has something to do with the Nuclear problems and having one per B-52 in operation. 

[PHall]

I heard that they are working to retire the KC-135 as well.  I think it has something to do with the Nuclear problems and having one per B-52 in operation.

They've been trying retire the -135's for about 30 years now. And there is a fair number in the Bone Yard at Davis-Monthan.
But they've said that -135's will be flying until 2040 and I believe it.

[RiverAux]

As planes get better and better and more expensive to buy such that we can't afford to have as many as we used too, the logical conclusion is that at some point the Air Force is going to consist of one really hot aircraft. 

[RogueLeader]

As planes get better and better and more expensive to buy such that we can't afford to have as many as we used too, the logical conclusion is that at some point the Air Force is going to consist of one really hot aircraft. 

Here you go.  Only 300,000 Imperial Credits. . .

[LSThiker]

Here you go.  Only 300,000 Imperial Credits. . .

But why a TIE Defender.  I liked the TIE Interceptor a lot better than the Defender.  Even a TIE Phantom was better than the Defender as long as it has the cloak.  Either way, I hope we at least go with the X-Wing

[RogueLeader]

Here you go.  Only 300,000 Imperial Credits. . .

But why a TIE Defender.  I liked the TIE Interceptor a lot better than the Defender.  Even a TIE Phantom was better than the Defender as long as it has the cloak.  Either way, I hope we at least go with the X-Wing

Tie Defender has an extra 15% thrust, shield generators, two ion cannons, warhead launchers, and a hyperdrive over the TIE Interceptor.

I'll take a Stealth X-wing any day.

[Panache]

But why a TIE Defender.  I liked the TIE Interceptor a lot better than the Defender.  Even a TIE Phantom was better than the Defender as long as it has the cloak.  Either way, I hope we at least go with the X-Wing

Tie Defender has an extra 15% thrust, shield generators, two ion cannons, warhead launchers, and a hyperdrive over the TIE Interceptor.

"TIE pilots are suicidal.  TIE Defender pilots are bloodthirsty.  TIE Interceptor pilots are suicidal and bloodthirsty."

Here you go.  Only 300,000 Imperial Credits. . .

Hell, that's a bargain. 

[Panache]

This time around......they are looking for cause...unfortunately that just turned it into a One Failure Air Force.

Remember guys, there's nowhere in the entrenched civil service where we could make cuts before gutting the US military.  NOWHERE.

[lordmonar]

This time around......they are looking for cause...unfortunately that just turned it into a One Failure Air Force.

Remember guys, there's nowhere in the entrenched civil service where we could make cuts before gutting the US military.  NOWHERE.

Apples and oranges there.....but the DoD has been on a hiring freeze for some time...they are cutting the civilian side of things.