Change 2 to CAPR 39-2

[Storm Chaser]

Has anyone noticed Change 2 to CAPR 39-2, which NHQ published last week.

h.     Prospective cadets visiting a traditional unit must participate in a trial period by attending three weekly squadron meetings before requesting membership. Unit commanders will not approve membership applications (online or in paper form) until the prospective cadet has attended his or her third squadron meeting. Commanders of school-sponsored units possessing an 800-series charter number will set a trial period appropriate for that school unit's program environment, in coordination with the school principal. Prospective cadets may not explore CAP without joining for longer than 30 days. (emphasis mine)

The change goes on listing a series of activities (very inclusive, I may add) in which a cadet can participate during the trial period. It also lists those which are prohibited. Mostly common sense stuff.

[Eclipse]

Probably about time.  3 weeks of visits has been a "best practice" for a lot of units with the
flipside being (apparently) many not making common sense decisions about what prospective
cadets are allowed to do.

This might curtail a lot of the issue of empty shirts.

"(1) During the trial period, unit commanders will only permit prospective cadets to
participate in cadet activities that are not physically rigorous, including classroom activities, drill and
ceremonies, basic calisthenics and jogging, and low-impact field activities such as rocketry, simple
orienteering, volleyball, and similar endeavors, provided the young person reports to have no physical
limitations or injuries. 

(2) Prospective cadets are prohibited from participating in overnight activities, flying, riding
in CAP vehicles, participating in physically-rigorous field activities such as hiking and obstacle course,
and participating in any activity that would qualify as "high adventure" per CAPR 52-16, chapter 2. "

[Storm Chaser]

I agree that it's a "best practice", but I don't think it should be regulated. Some cadets may be ready to go "full throttle" after the first or second meeting. I personally know several who joined right away and have gone far in the program. Heck, I joined as a cadet after my meeting. Commanders should be allowed to make that determination.

[Eclipse]

Honestly, how many kids, or their parents, really know what CAP is all about on a first visit?

Just like the pipeline idea, if a kid won't come back for three meetings, how invested is he really in being a cadet?
It has to be some number, they picked three.  I like CC discretion, but don't really have a huge issue with three.

Should probably be three for seniors as well.

[JeffDG]

I agree that it's a "best practice", but I don't think it should be regulated. Some cadets may be ready to go "full throttle" after the first or second meeting. I personally know several who joined right away and have gone far in the program. Heck, I joined as a cadet after my meeting. Commanders should be allowed to make that determination.

That's cute....thinking that commanders can use discretion when someone at NHQ can write a rule making the decision for them.

[coudano]

anybody who is 'ready to go' after 2 meetings isn't going to be killed by waiting 7 more days.
or 14.

the application could sit on the commander's approval queue that long, even after the third meeting...

in light of some of the other changes on the table, this aint no big deal.



I'm not quite clear on how this plays against pipelining recruiting strategy though...
To squadrons that pipeline, do you just make cadets who haven't met the pipeline cutoff date visit at least 3 times sometime before the pipeline start?  If you only pipeline 2 windows a year, do you really have people 'visiting' for 4 or 5 months?  Do they do their 3 visits, sign up, and then just disappear for weeks until the start of pipeline?

Is the 3 visits built into the pipeline?
Like you sign up to pipeline, and the first three weeks you aren't really a member...
And on that fourth week /flip switch, now you are?

[Storm Chaser]

My issue is not so much with the three-meeting requirement, but with the fact that NHQ is removing the commander's discretion on the matter.

[MIKE]

I can think of a few reasons why NHQ doesn't want non-members hanging around past the trial period. 

[NC Hokie]

Probably about time.  3 weeks of visits has been a "best practice" for a lot of units with the
flipside being (apparently) many not making common sense decisions about what prospective
cadets are allowed to do.

This might curtail a lot of the issue of empty shirts.

"(1) During the trial period, unit commanders will only permit prospective cadets to
participate in cadet activities that are not physically rigorous, including classroom activities, drill and
ceremonies, basic calisthenics and jogging, and low-impact field activities such as rocketry, simple
orienteering, volleyball, and similar endeavors, provided the young person reports to have no physical
limitations or injuries. 

(2) Prospective cadets are prohibited from participating in overnight activities, flying, riding
in CAP vehicles, participating in physically-rigorous field activities such as hiking and obstacle course,
and participating in any activity that would qualify as "high adventure" per CAPR 52-16, chapter 2. "

I guess it would have been too easy to specifically allow or disallow the CPFT by name.

[NIN]

Think "insurance coverage" here, gang.

A prospective member injures him or herself at a CAP meeting while not having executed a CAPF 12 or 15?

I don't think I'm the only commander to ever sit up in bed at night going "Crap, I hope Timmy the Clumsy Prospective Cadet doesn't take a header until mom signs his form.."

[a2capt]

30 days.. quite a bit shorter than the recent thread with the  2 year "cadet"? .. maybe that woke someone up into making that change..

[lordmonar]

I agree that it's a "best practice", but I don't think it should be regulated. Some cadets may be ready to go "full throttle" after the first or second meeting. I personally know several who joined right away and have gone far in the program. Heck, I joined as a cadet after my meeting. Commanders should be allowed to make that determination.

Is there anyway to track and verify?
If so.....who cares.

The intent of the regulation is to make sure the cadet really, really wants to join before his parents shell out big cash.....and get the Free Uniform....and then think...."What I got to cut my hair!"

[lordmonar]

Probably about time.  3 weeks of visits has been a "best practice" for a lot of units with the
flipside being (apparently) many not making common sense decisions about what prospective
cadets are allowed to do.

This might curtail a lot of the issue of empty shirts.

"(1) During the trial period, unit commanders will only permit prospective cadets to
participate in cadet activities that are not physically rigorous, including classroom activities, drill and
ceremonies, basic calisthenics and jogging, and low-impact field activities such as rocketry, simple
orienteering, volleyball, and similar endeavors, provided the young person reports to have no physical
limitations or injuries. 

(2) Prospective cadets are prohibited from participating in overnight activities, flying, riding
in CAP vehicles, participating in physically-rigorous field activities such as hiking and obstacle course,
and participating in any activity that would qualify as "high adventure" per CAPR 52-16, chapter 2. "

I guess it would have been too easy to specifically allow or disallow the CPFT by name.

How can they take a test if they are not members?   They certainly can participate in the PT.

[a2capt]

I don't see testing listed there anywhere.

[SarDragon]

I don't see testing listed there anywhere.

Isn't CPFT a test? As in Cadet Physical Fitness Test?

Or am I missing something here?

[a2capt]

In the regulation cite, I don't see testing specifically called out. However, putting a date in that is earlier than the membership join date is probably borderline kooky anyway. OTOH, "calisthenics and jogging".. sounds so 1980s.

[SarDragon]

In the regulation cite, I don't see testing specifically called out. However, putting a date in that is earlier than the membership join date is probably borderline kooky anyway. OTOH, "calisthenics and jogging".. sounds so 1980s.

OK, I re-reread it, and see what you're saying. The CPFT wasn't part of the reg quote.

[Brit_in_CAP]

Honestly, how many kids, or their parents, really know what CAP is all about on a first visit?

Just like the pipeline idea, if a kid won't come back for three meetings, how invested is he really in being a cadet?
It has to be some number, they picked three.  I like CC discretion, but don't really have a huge issue with three.

Should probably be three for seniors as well.

Check, check and double check!

[The14th]

I'd hope potential Senior Members would do a little of their own research before deciding if they want to join or not. 

[00]

Probably about time.  3 weeks of visits has been a "best practice" for a lot of units with the
flipside being (apparently) many not making common sense decisions about what prospective
cadets are allowed to do.

This might curtail a lot of the issue of empty shirts.

"(1) During the trial period, unit commanders will only permit prospective cadets to
participate in cadet activities that are not physically rigorous, including classroom activities, drill and
ceremonies, basic calisthenics and jogging, and low-impact field activities such as rocketry, simple
orienteering, volleyball, and similar endeavors, provided the young person reports to have no physical
limitations or injuries. 

(2) Prospective cadets are prohibited from participating in overnight activities, flying, riding
in CAP vehicles, participating in physically-rigorous field activities such as hiking and obstacle course,
and participating in any activity that would qualify as "high adventure" per CAPR 52-16, chapter 2. "

I guess it would have been too easy to specifically allow or disallow the CPFT by name.

How can they take a test if they are not members?   They certainly can participate in the PT.

It is only a pamphlet, but it does let those who have sent in an application test.
CAP Pamphlet 52-9
Test Eligibility.
Ordinarily, an individual's membership must be current on E-Services if they wish to test. New cadets participating in Great Start may take their Achievement 1 tests before their name appears in e-Services, provided that their application form has been completed and is en route to CAP National Headquarters.