Level 4 Leadership requirement question

[vento]

The Leadership requirement for Level 4 (per Attachemnt 1 of CAPR 50-17 19AUG2013) states:
"Serve as a director or staff member of a CAP course or educational activity OR National, Region, or Wing Conference"

So the question I have:
What constitutes a staff member of a CAP course or educational activity?
Are instructors (SLS or CLC for example) considered part of the staff?

Thanks

[THRAWN]

Yep.

[Storm Chaser]

There's a requirement that the course must have 12 hours of contact time, which mean some of the newer forms of SLS and CLC, with the majority of the course being online, self pace, don't qualify. (Ref. CAPR 50-17, Attach. 3)

[Tim Medeiros]

There is a listing on one of the last pages of CAPR 52-16 50-17 which has the answers you seek.


Edit: This is what I get for responding just after waking up for work.

[tonyairplane]

It also says to write to NHQ because the list changes.  Well I wrote to them and got a reply along the lines of "why are you writing to us?"

Plus yes, as was mentioned here and in another thread, the courses that one will be able help with are getting to be fewer.

They will probably have to change the requirement as things move toward online training.

[a2capt]

Hey, at least you got an answer.

I'm actually surprised there is such a comment. A change would be an updated release of the publication. Why does that one need to be different?

[Eclipse]

Plus yes, as was mentioned here and in another thread, the courses that one will be able help with are getting to be fewer.

Fewer?  Cite please.

This requirement keeps getting looser and looser.  When I joined you had to be the course director, and it was basically only SLS/CLC.

Now it's pretty much any course with the appropriate contact hours:

Squadron Leadership School

Corporate Learning Course

Unit Commanders Course

CAP Safety Officer College

Region Staff College

National Staff College

Wing, Region and National Cadet Courses and Education/Training Activities (includes encampments)

Wing, Region and National Aerospace Education Courses and Education/Training Activities

National Emergency Services Academy (NESA) including its subordinate schools

Airborne Real-time Cueing Hyperspectral Enhanced Recon (ARCHER) Operator Training

Satellite-transmitted Digital Imaging System (SDIS) Operator Training

Intermediate Incident Command System Training: ICS-300

Advanced Incident Command System Training: ICS-400

National Check Pilot Standardization Courses

Mountain Flying Clinics/Mountain Fury Course

Pilot Continuation Training

Critical Incident Stress Management Training

Individual Crisis Intervention & Peer Support

Group Crisis Intervention• Pastoral Crisis Intervention I & II
Advanced Crisis Intervention

Community Emergency Response Team (CERT) Training

Advanced First Aid / First Responder Training

National Operations Center Augmentee Training

Chaplain Corps Region Staff College

Training Leaders of Cadets

National Legal Officer College

CAP Inspector General College

The "newer" classes are exceptions and not considered the preferred way to participate in these activities.
If you can't find an hour to teaching something from that list above, you're not active enough to deserve Level IV

[tonyairplane]

It is funny that you should say that.  It actually took me writing to them twice before  I got a reply.  Now I sent a followup question and wrote again after that and still no answer.

[tonyairplane]

Yes, fewer.  As we discussed in the other thread, some Wings are having SLS and CLC done in part online with a shorter (less than 12 hours) capstone portion in person.

Other courses will certainly follow.

That is what I meant.  There will be fewer opportunities for a 12 hour contact course.

[Eclipse]

Other courses will certainly follow.

Cite.

Much (most?) most of that list cannot be accomplished online.

Repeating, SLS/CLC is the >only< online PD course, there have been no public indications that is changing, and
it is in very, very limited use, requiring Wing CC approval (which has sometimes been denied according to
messages here).

[tonyairplane]

Why do you keep saying "cite"?

It is obvious that more courses will move to online completely or hybrid.

It certainly will not be fewer.

[Eclipse]

The SLS/CLC is a special case because many wings were / are shirking their responsibility to run
them timely and accessible to their membership.

I suppose here's no arguing that more curriculum will move online, but that doesn't mean those
classes won't count, nor that there will be reduced opportunities to be an instructor as required for
Level IV.   There's also the issue that participation is somewhat circular anyway.

In other words, if you aren't participating in those classes or activities indicated in the non-exclusive list, the
odds of getting to the master level in most of the "mainstream" specialties is pretty low, anyway.

I got my master in CP as a side benefit of what I was doing anyway - one day I did the math and
realized "oh, this is done".

[EMT-83]

I have agree with Eclipse. There are far more, and much easier, ways to complete this requirement than in the past. In residence SLS and CLC are still here, and they're only two of the many courses on the list.

[arajca]

I got my master in CP as a side benefit of what I was doing anyway - one day I did the math and
realized "oh, this is done".

That's how I got most of mine. The rest were "Golly, I just need one more thing and I got another."

[vento]

Why do you keep saying "cite"?

No disrespect to anybody, but THIS has to be the funniest thing I read today. 

Tim, thanks for the cite on CAPR 52-16. And thanks everyone for the input.  :clap:

[a2capt]

Must have been a slow day.

[Tim Medeiros]

Why do you keep saying "cite"?

No disrespect to anybody, but THIS has to be the funniest thing I read today. 

Tim, thanks for the cite on CAPR 52-16. And thanks everyone for the input.  :clap:

Just a note, I goofed, it should be 50-17, been working the CP side of the house a bit much lately and got mixed up.


Attachment 3 (page 35) has the listing.

[vento]

There's a requirement that the course must have 12 hours of contact time......  (Ref. CAPR 50-17, Attach. 3)

A follow up question if I may. What exactly does the course must have 12 hours of contact time mean?
1. The whole course is over 12 hours in duration (think CLC)? OR
2. The instructor must instruct for over 12 hours in the course?
Thanks

[Eclipse]

12 hours worth of classes based on whomever creates the curriculum.

Long-winded instructors don't count.

[a2capt]

The way I see it as having meant when it was a "course director" slot, was the course was significant investment from both the director and students time.

The way it reads now, is that the course must be that, for whoever lists it. So a weeknight training class won't work, but a weeks worth of nights in a series would. That still leaves the actual level of participation in the lurch.


"Staff"? .. coffee maker. Sign in roster taker, instructor, IT support.. all of the above. Some require lots of work, others.. not so.